How much to charge a sharer?

I've just been up now and I'm feeling quite upset about it all. I think the crux of the situation is that I'm feeling like he's not my horse anymore and I'm still footing a large bill.
I invisaged him being ridden a few times a week not someone being there all weekend with him and three week nights.
Yes it's my fault for not being clearer but I want to spend time with him on my own so it makes me feel that I don't want to go up on weekend afternoons as I did before which is the most social part of the week up there.
I'm not better off financially for the arrangement nor am I better off time wise so it just doesn't work for me at all.
On top of this the £10 was paid 4 days late last week and isn't there again today although I have just coughed up £104 for the week. On top of this she is having a half hour riding lesson at a riding school for £20 a week so clearly there is money available.
I'm going to leave it for today and then I will contact them and say do they want to have a written agreement with set days for £20-30 per week. YO says it should be £30 she is an instructor and it's a big yard so I think she probably has a pretty good idea. I think I would feel better if I was benefiting from it financially I work very hard to keep him so that would make things a bit easier for me.
If she doesn't want too I think il just knock the idea on the head and see if I can find an adult sharer or maybe it's time to think about a full loan so at least I wouldn't have the huge outlay or time constraints.
 
I have to say that given how this is making you feel, I think that you should end the share. Yes, you'll probably feel really bad and terribly guilty, but he is your horse and the share is not working for you. If they are struggling to pay £10 on time, then I don't see that paying more will be an option.

If you decide to share again, maybe go for an adult and set out exactly what the terms are from the start. Maybe your YO knows of someone who would suit?
 
Gosh £10 for all weekend, three weeknights and no chores is a fantastic deal! They wouldn't get that anywhwere else! If it was a friend of yours in this predicament, Bens_mum, what would you be telling her?

Time to have "the conversation". However it pans out, ultimately you will feel better for having said it, as difficult as it may be. xxx
 
Polos Mum said:
Depending on where in the country you are £20 a week for 1 weekend day and 2 days in the week is pretty typical

Sharers get a very good deal financial as they certainly don't typically pay a proportion of the full cost (if you include insurance, trimming, supplements etc) BUT often the owner wants the sharer more for exercise than cash - you can easily pay £10 a hour to someone to exercise your horse so take this into consideration in your maths if you're considering alternatives
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This is along the lines I was thinking of cost-wise plus maybe a couple of barrows of poo removed from the field each week. Mine all live out so nostables chores to do.
 
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I think if you decide to keep this young girl on, make it clear that Sunday is your day with your boy and you don't expect to see her at the yard on that day. Personally, given that you are still doing all the chores, as sad as it is for the girl, I think I'd probably end the share agreement with her and look for an older sharer who can help with both the bills and the workload.

Given how sad you were feeling this morning, I really don't think you should sell him. He clearly means a great deal to you. xx
 
yes I think that sounds fair and set days and jobs to do would be suitable for me even if she makes up haynets for the week in advance.
or change to an adult who can do jobs too!
 
Your sharer sounds like a bit of a nightmare, I think I would look for someone else.

But just to tell you what I do... I have a sort of sharer for mine. He is a really great all rounder, lovely little horse who turns his hoof to anything, safe as houses but with plenty of spark and enough about him to also make him a good low level eventer. I have team chased him, he hunts perfectly, really can't fault him. However, I wanted someone who would be happy to only hack and so no risk of us disagreeing about schooling or anything like that. I now have a girl who rides him 2-3x per week on days I specify (in fact, at the time of day I specify too), does occasional weekends with the odd bit of mucking out. He is on full livery mon-fri so I don't really need help with chores; I just don't want to pay the yard to exercise him. She doesn't make any financial contribution at all. She is doing me a huge favour by exercising him when I can't get there (new job means I am away a lot) and saving me £120 a month because I don't need to pay the yard to ride.

So it really depends on your motivation for getting a sharer. I have charged for shares (different horse though) in the past but in this case, I have no need of the financial help but I do need help getting/ keeping him fit, plus the times she rides fits in perfectly with our restricted winter turnout.
 
I do one weekend day and one week night, do all jobs myself.
I pay £2 to another livery for him to be turned out on the week day morning as I work and £5 to the yard to use the indoor school for 1/2 an hour on the week night, as the outdoor school has no decent lighting.
I pay £104 per month to the owner with an extra £20 every 6 weeks for shoes. With the extra costs to ride and to have him turned out, it works out about £140 a month.
 
I would end the share for the other reasons mentioned, not just the financial one. Find a sharer who will pay more and allow you time alone with your own horse.
 
Thanks guys I do geniuely feel quite upset! She's messaged today saying he's sweaty so I guess wants clipping now too... I've been made to feel bad about the lack of time I was spending with him and people keep commenting about how good he is with her- he's always good!
I've had a really crap 6 months and gone through a lot to keep hold of him . I'm at home feeling sad and she's up there grooming him I need a slap!
Trim tomorrow another £25!
 
Here comes a slap then! I can totally see how you feel, because I have done similar things, but you do need a bit of a slap as you have admitted you have accidentally brought it upon yourself and the girl is only 13 and now totally in love with your horse (indeed she probably now thinks he loves her back :) )

It's not really your fault either though - everything is hard with a baby and your emotions can run away with you a bit too.

I was very thoughtless at 13 - I used to ride a woman's horse at my stables for free and had no idea as to the true cost. I left the horse's bandages in the feed bin after riding, horse was fed by staff who didn't see them, so he ate half his bandages. I heard through the grapevine that she was furious with me, but I did I buy more bandages? I am now ashamed to say no, it didn't even occur to me to do that :(

So don't blame her, or take offence that people are saying how good he is with her - even though it would irk me too, take it as a compliment about your horse and your training, not as an insult. Just try being honest with her and her parents - they might be non-horsey but they will understand that the horse costs you money and you either need more money or you will have to find another sharer for the other days.

You could thank her for the time she has given him, but say now that the baby is older you will be going up Sundays and it you do it nicely there should be no hard feelings.

Could she be of more help to you? Perhaps in the future she could look after the baby for half an hour (when asleep in the pushchair perhaps) so you could ride in the school?

Speak to them when you are feeling calm and write down the things you want to say so you don't say too much/too little.
 
Bens mum you need to take control. Write out a list of all the costs involved. Show it to girl and state that you need £40 a week , she can do 3 days a week , state which they are eg Mon Wed Fri ands also Saturday. And thats all no more, its unfair on both of you not to have ground rules. Ifg she decides to leave then so be it, you are subsidising her hobby.
 
Bens_Mum said:
Thanks guys I do geniuely feel quite upset! She's messaged today saying he's sweaty so I guess wants clipping now too... I've been made to feel bad about the lack of time I was spending with him and people keep commenting about how good he is with her- he's always good!
I've had a really crap 6 months and gone through a lot to keep hold of him . I'm at home feeling sad and she's up there grooming him I need a slap!
Trim tomorrow another £25!
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tbh i think you are just dragging it out... why not just go up there? if shes there doing something with him say oh i was coming to groom/lunge/play with him.. sorry.. see you soon..then you need to speak to her parents- you either say:
she can carry on for £20 a week with 2 set days, paid by direct debit and a written agreement and some jobs done.
or
sorry its not working out, im grateful for everything your daughter has done for my horse, she is welcome to give him a pat and a carrot if shes ever up the yard with her friend.
 
To be fair, I think she is living every 13 year old girls dream at the minute! You can't really blame her for wanting to spend every minute with him and it's quite sweet in a way.

What is clear is that their has been a huge lack of communication between the 2 of you. I suspect she thinks that she is doing you a huge favour and as mentioned above, a 13 year really wouldn't have a clue how much a horse costs to keep.

The very best way to stop feeling upset is to do something about it! So sit down and write a list of what you would like a sharer to do and on which days and how much you would like them to pay. Then give the girl/her parents a call and explain that the arrangement is not working out for you at the moment and explain what you really need from a sharer and gently let them know that if the girl is not able to live up to that, very sadly you'll have to look for a new sharer.

It will be a huge shock and she will be upset but you can write her a really good reference and no doubt she'll find another horse to share in no time.

It's time to take back control of your horse. xx
 
Rather than feel guilty, look at it this way. You've had a very busy period of time and your sharer has had a dream share. Time moves on however and now things need to change to suit YOUR current situation.

I do think your conversation needs to be with the parents though. Your sharer is too young to have her own finances and you can't make a contract with someone under age.

You have mentioned the possibility of selling your horse. I've found this exercise helpful. When you have a quiet time at home, get comfy, shut your eyes and imaging that your horse has been sold to a really good home and is very happy there. Do you feel regret, or a weight lifting off your shoulders??
 
Contact her parents back tonight as the request for the clip has given you an opportunity to address cost issues.

Say to her parents that the clip that their daughter has requested for your horse will cost £25 and with their daughter taking up more and more time with your horse than you originally envisaged and that you will be re-thinking the arrangement. Mention that you have spoken to the YO who feels that £30 per week would be a more fair arrangement for two weekdays and one weekend and ask them to let you know what they wish to do by the end of the month.
 
I've just had a message asking me if he's being trimmed because his feet are long I think my guilt is rapidly disappearing.
I clip and was a professional groom so I think the assumption is I will provide that too.
I don't have the parents number she has sent her requests by email so I think I will do the same very nicely but as others have said I need to take back control and I'm not being told what to do by a 13 year old. I'm sure it's innocent but it's causing me an awful lot of stress.
 
Bens_Mum said:
I've just had a message asking me if he's being trimmed because his feet are long I think my guilt is rapidly disappearing.
I clip and was a professional groom so I think the assumption is I will provide that too.
I don't have the parents number she has sent her requests by email so I think I will do the same very nicely but as others have said I need to take back control and I'm not being told what to do by a 13 year old. I'm sure it's innocent but it's causing me an awful lot of stress.
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Good to hear and life is far too short for anyone of any age to be causing someone grief and stress x
 
I do feel very sorry for the sharer in all of this.

She was originally told she could ride as much as she wanted so is doing what any horse-mad 13yo would in that situation.

I appreciate that it seems you underestimated the amount you wanted to charge, how much time you wanted to spend with your horse and what chores you want help with but in all honesty this could all be solved with a simple chat.

If you don't have a contact number for her parents could you call the girl and ask to speak to her parents that way? I really don't think emailing a 13yo about financials is the right way to go about things if you do want this share to continue.
 
I think the fact you are dealing with the child is wrong - you need to speak tot the parents and I am quite frankly horrified that should there be an accident you cant contact the parents..
 
SusieT said:
I think the fact you are dealing with the child is wrong - you need to speak tot the parents and I am quite frankly horrified that should there be an accident you cant contact the parents..
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At the very least you should have an emergency number for the parents, I am shocked that you are dealing with a 13 year old with no input from the parents, no wonder it has gone pear shaped, has the child got insurance in place as yours may not cover her fully, I am surprised the YO accepts this, I certainly wouldn't.
 
Bens_Mum said:
I've just had a message asking me if he's being trimmed because his feet are long I think my guilt is rapidly disappearing.
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Personally I would be pleased that a thirteen year old is noticing that sort of thing.

In your shoes I would contact the parents (I would not have loaned without a number for them but you need to get it) have a nice chat with them, she is showing responsibility and concern for your horses welfare so give her credit for that in your conversation, if you want to end the loan then do so but do not cut of your nose to spite your face because you are jealous of the relationship this girl has with your horse just take back some control, tell them that you feel they should be contributing more financially and that the girl needs to take some responsibility for the horses care, I would be happy with £20 per week if she is reliable and give 3 set days per week and jobs to do-I think the idea of asking if she would like to watch the baby for you when you ride could work or even 1 evening per month. also get an agreement signed and say you do want your time with your horse to be your time so on your days the horse is not available for visits.
 
I have met the parents I just don't have their telephone numbers they have mine. The adult supervising this has all the details of all parties and is there the whole time when the girl is so it's quite straight forwards to obtain there number in any emergency situation.
Yo knows all about the arrangement and is fine with it.
I tried to do something nice for all concerned, yes it's my fault that I didn't put it in writing but I have an awful lot on my plate and it's now become a mess.
Clearly it is not a situation where you can have a casual arrangement I get that loud and clear.
I will offer the two week days and one weekend day for the £30 which is less than the price it costs me and and then it's up to her. She is paying that now for him and a half an hour riding lesson a week so it's up to them what they feel is of more value.
I will get a proper contract and if she doesn't want to do that advertise for an adult. That leaves me 2 days a week to ride should I choose too or lunge still giving him two days off bearing in mind he is 19.
Thanks all for your opinions its been really helpful.
 
One of my loaners is 13 too and the other is 17, I don't have a contract with either of them. I trust them and hope they respect it, I have known them a while so it works quite well. The parents understand that going to the local riding school to do a 30minute group lesson would cost them £25 so they pay £30 a week, no jobs and get to do what they like and ride as many times as they like, be it once or 3 times a week. They are getting a bargain with you at the moment and I would definitely write down all costs to show them. £30 a week is nothing for the amount of riding she is getting. Get some brave pants on, if they don't like it then im sure you can find someone else x
 
The child is 13 where is she going to find £20/£30/£40. Especially if her parents are non horsey they wont realize the cost either. Its good to note that the 13yr old has noticed that his feet are long and that he needs a clip. You've got a young baby hormones lack of sleep etc etc. Take time to think this through. Don't break the kids heart, talk to her and her parents and try to come to a sensible agreement. Good luck
 
If it were me in this situation I would contact her parents for a chat. I would keep it on a positive note, mention that you have noticed the time commitment their daughter has shown and also that there has been great feedback from others at the yard about the relationship she has with your horse. I would then go on to say that you have more time to spend at the stables now so you will set some days for you only, and because their daughter has been so keen you would be happy for her to continue on X day(s). I would then mention the financial contribution of £10 per day - you aren't demanding extra money from them if they can't afford it, it is then their decision to spend the extra money or not.

But I think you need to be honest with yourself too, even if you come to a new agreement with the girl will you feel happy when she is spending time with your horse? If not it is probably fairer to stop the arrangement completely.

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do
 
I think I would go for email in the situation, and ask the girl to discuss your email with her parents and respond.


Something along the lines of

I’ve been thinking and the current sharing arrangement is not working for me. Whilst Y is clearly fond of pony, and enjoying riding him..

I pay all pony’s costs, which are over £xxx a month, and do all of the day to day chores, whilst Y does the grooming and riding.

The timing of Y’s arrival and Y’s reliance on lifts, and the inconsistency rule out her having responsibility for day to day chores.

This results in Y effectively riding for no cost, and no chores. This not working for me, when I could ride myself, or have a paying adult sharer.

I have also done some research as to what other sharers pay, and what my monthly costs are, and taken professional advice.

I plan to change our sharing arrangement, from XXX date.

In the future I will require £10 / day contribution for all share days. This is below the cost of riding at a riding school, and also below the total daily cost of keeping pony.

Share days, will need to be the same each week, and a set number a week committed to. I can make Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday available.
 
I would not get too serious/hung up really. Just have a chat with the parents. There has been no harm done and as said by others at 13 the girl doesn't realize how much money a horse costs.
As for people saying the horse is good with her, it's a compliment to the horse and your training :)
 
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