**how much would u pay for this??** Showjumper/warmblood

Nice enough horse - wouldn't say off the floor paces - they seem to be ok but it's just a snapshot. Looks like a very good quality allrounder if it has the brain and temperament to go with it. With correct training any horse can do well. Unbroken? I would say £3-4k depending on what I thought of it in the flesh but it doesn't scream "come and see me" to me.
 
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no,vicki_krystal you did not pay too much for your horse l think you just live in the REAL world like me!
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or maybe its just our world, with only me and you in it??!!! lol
 
So true and I echo what Henry_horn says too. I bought a 7 month old WB foal 4 years ago with superb showjumping breeding and her original price was between £6000 and £8000 . . . . I did knock them down a bit but there were extraordinary circumstances.
 
we bought a similar bloodlines gelding this summer ....son of Lancer III (Landgraf) and with Pilot on dams side ....4 yr old broken with reasonable paces but v. green esp. jumpingwise for £7,500.... We need to see how he works out but he has lovely movement. If your horse is similar you will have done well.

Ali
 
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So true and I echo what Henry_horn says too. I bought a 7 month old WB foal 4 years ago with superb showjumping breeding and her original price was between £6000 and £8000 . . . . I did knock them down a bit but there were extraordinary circumstances.

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I must say if i was going to sell my foal (good show jumping breeding) she would be up for this and will be even more at 4yo as long as she turns out as expected (which she should - i hope)
 
I would say that you have got your value for money, for getting him at £3.5k, as I would not pay any more for unbacked, and unproven under saddle horse. 2/3year old.

Good luck.
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In any market, where all buyers are wanting to get the best value for money, the suppliers will always be in competition. When professional studs can produce sound horses, and offer them at prices, considerably better value than some quoted here, you can not complain when the buyers baulk at some ridiculous prices.
 
fools breed horses for wise men to buy, but anybody who expects to buy well bred 3 yr for anything like 1k is taking the micky, unbroken or untouched, stud fees, keep, and vets fees amount to far more than that, i would think depending on a lot of points anything from 5k to 10k would be reasonable
 
its hard to get an indication on price, as it depends what your prepared to pay for potential.

I think the reason he is not making a great shape over the jump is there is no placing pole, so he's standing off a bit and flattening....but boy is he tidy with his front feet !! I think if you saw a pic of him with a placing pole, he would bascule nicely and look fantastic.
His jump looks effortless and he uses himself nicely.

The bad thing is that I feel he is a bit fine boned for a top showjumper unless he will be a ladies horse.

IMO, I think he could be worth upto £8-10k as is, and I think when he is a few years older and with a tgood rider, say at grade B BSJA and jumping those 1.45m+ tracks consistently then he would be worth £30-40k+ if he looks like he has the ability to go further.

I know its nuts but people pay top money for a good looking horse with potential, and you have to be prepared to loose a lot of money if he doesnt work out
 
Sorry but get a grip!!! £8 - £10k unbroken with NOTHING showing his potential (no grading shows etc) and then you say he could be worth £30=+£40k if jumping 1.45+tracks - sorry but FFS, there are SO SO many horses bred to jump big tracks and less than 1% attain it.

Potential, as in the word, seems to = more money than anything else ATM.
 
But that is like saying an unbroken 3 year old Arko is only worth £4k?
Say Arko had obvious star Olympic potential as an unbroken rising 3 year old are you saying that he still be worth under £4k? When he in fact sold for a huge sum of money at that age when John Hales bought him (I think I read somewhere that it was something like £70k )

I think true star potential does have value.
 
Yes but potential is just that - potential - ask the racing fraternity. You can pay for breeding and hope you get lucky or you can buy a potential nothing out of a field on the side of the M1 and also get lucky, for next to nothing. There is no right answer in my opinion.
Happy new year everyone
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EVERY horse has potential but not necessarily to make it to the top or command such a huge price as an unbroken 3 yr old.....

I've read this post over and ovre and until now haven't bothered to comment.... but if you want my honest opinion, I wouldn't buy the horse on the simple basis that it just "doesn't do anything for me" (Sorry, its not my type of horse!)
 
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fools breed horses for wise men to buy, but anybody who expects to buy well bred 3 yr for anything like 1k is taking the micky, unbroken or untouched, stud fees, keep, and vets fees amount to far more than that, i would think depending on a lot of points anything from 5k to 10k would be reasonable

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GAH can't people please read my reply(s) properly. I didn't say the horse was worth £1k I said that is what I PERSONALLY would pay seeing as that was the original question and it is not the type of horse I would buy and I would spend my money elsewhere on a horse that was my type.

If people would also care to read my many other replies which I think number too many in this thread now I said I would expect to pay £3-5k for a reasonably bred average but nice youngster with half decent breeding.

and to other posters no I wouldn't expect to buy Arko at 3yo for £4k because he showed a lot more promise at 3yo which included better confirmation, better grading and better technique but then he was, is and will be always an exceptional horse. There is nothing wrong with paying for quality I just have my own personal opinion that too many people often pay far too much for something that is realistically mediocre not that honestly there is anything wrong with a mediocre horse as very few of us (including myself) will ever be capable of riding the exceptional ones!

Oh and what is the betting that several of the 'Z' horses which sold for the £5-6k mark (lovely horses in general btw) will find their way to England and sold on at the £20k mark
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Well bred horses cost a lot of money to breed ,I feel sorry for breeders if they can't get a decent price for a very nice horse.

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Badly-bred horses cost just as much to feed
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Soooo, basically, it doesn't make much sense NOT to breed very well, does it?
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Actually, the horse shown doesn't do it for me, personally.
 
S_C, do you think, in some cases, that people are 'blinded' by a nice pedigree with a well-known name or two, or the origin of the horse and don't actually LOOK at it on its own merit. I'm far from being an expert, but based purely on looks and jumping technique, I don't find the horse in the original post terribly impressive...
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S_C, do you think, in some cases, that people are 'blinded' by a nice pedigree with a well-known name or two, or the origin of the horse and don't actually LOOK at it on its own merit. I'm far from being an expert, but based purely on looks and jumping technique, I don't find the horse in the original post terribly impressive...
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The thing about pedigree though is that I would imagine it is pretty hard to find a warmblood that doesn't have either Ladykiller (who must be about 6 generations back in this horse) or Landgraf ( about 3/4 generations back). Does that make every horse worth £20K?

I know that I can buy a nice 5YO for £5K, which to me makes more sense than buying an unbroken 3YO at £3.5K. At least I would have more of a chance of knowing I had got the right horse for me.
 
well i think you deserve a big pat on the back for getting him so cheaply, ignore the comments regarding him and people who say about not wanting too pay that much for a youngster such as him, they clearly have never bred a horse and realise the financial inlay that goes into it,

hes a nice enough chap, not a world beater but then again how many people actually need or could even ride a horse if it was a world beater!! if hes well mannered to ride then your never going to loose your money!!
 
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The thing about pedigree though is that I would imagine it is pretty hard to find a warmblood that doesn't have either Ladykiller (who must be about 6 generations back in this horse) or Landgraf ( about 3/4 generations back). Does that make every horse worth £20K?

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True. A good point well made
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I know that I can buy a nice 5YO for £5K, which to me makes more sense than buying an unbroken 3YO at £3.5K. At least I would have more of a chance of knowing I had got the right horse for me.

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Yes, it does make more sense, but is it really that easy? You'd think not judging by some of the posts on HHO
 
Have'nt read al the posts so am just answering the op.
Shape over the fence is poor. He does not use his back and this is born out in the trot free schooling photo. Quaters are trailing , does not drive up hill but pulls himself up. { dont be fooled but certain types of trot].
The bloodline is ok some well reliable blood but its old. As for the Pilot they are good jumpers but not known to be easy charactures especially when really asked a question.
so for me knowing the costs involved to breed a horse and get it to this stage he is adverage nice type i would say £8 to £10k no more.If you have got him for less then you have done ok .
 
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I think the reason he is not making a great shape over the jump is there is no placing pole, so he's standing off a bit and flattening....but boy is he tidy with his front feet !! I think if you saw a pic of him with a placing pole, he would bascule nicely and look fantastic.

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I see a placing pole in first jumping pic
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well i think you deserve a big pat on the back for getting him so cheaply, ignore the comments regarding him and people who say about not wanting too pay that much for a youngster such as him, they clearly have never bred a horse and realise the financial inlay that goes into it,

hes a nice enough chap, not a world beater but then again how many people actually need or could even ride a horse if it was a world beater!! if hes well mannered to ride then your never going to loose your money!!

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I totally agree with your comments and at £3500 he was a good buy. Many on this forum have no insight into the realistic costs of breeding. Whilst we all aim to breed the best we can and I personally ensure it has the correct care and feeding to try and ensure a sound athletic future which doesn't come cheap.
I have been to Germany and Holland and visited numerous studs where it is more like intensive farming and I doubt whether any see a farrier or are wormed etc until they are 3yo. Obviuosly the costs in these incidences would be considerably less, hense cheaper prices, but how many end up with OCD, foot and soundness problems etc.
 
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I totally agree with your comments and at £3500 he was a good buy. Many on this forum have no insight into the realistic costs of breeding. Whilst we all aim to breed the best we can and I personally ensure it has the correct care and feeding to try and ensure a sound athletic future which doesn't come cheap.
I have been to Germany and Holland and visited numerous studs where it is more like intensive farming and I doubt whether any see a farrier or are wormed etc until they are 3yo. Obviuosly the costs in these incidences would be considerably less, hense cheaper prices, but how many end up with OCD, foot and soundness problems etc.

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No I think most people do have a realistic idea about the cost of breeding, which is probably why most of us don't do it. If I can buy near enough the same horse for half the price why would I go to the small breeder - I'm not a charity! I also think it is naive to believe that all small breeders - or non european breeders treat their youngstock with all the due care needed and I would be very surprised if every expensive horse bought from a small non European breeder did ended its career completly sound.

Re OCD - I thought the dutch banned any stallion that had produced horses that had developed OCD - I'm sure that I had read that somewhere - is it true?
 
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I totally agree with your comments and at £3500 he was a good buy. Many on this forum have no insight into the realistic costs of breeding. Whilst we all aim to breed the best we can and I personally ensure it has the correct care and feeding to try and ensure a sound athletic future which doesn't come cheap.
I have been to Germany and Holland and visited numerous studs where it is more like intensive farming and I doubt whether any see a farrier or are wormed etc until they are 3yo. Obviuosly the costs in these incidences would be considerably less, hense cheaper prices, but how many end up with OCD, foot and soundness problems etc.

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No I think most people do have a realistic idea about the cost of breeding, which is probably why most of us don't do it. If I can buy near enough the same horse for half the price why would I go to the small breeder - I'm not a charity! I also think it is naive to believe that all small breeders - or non european breeders treat their youngstock with all the due care needed and I would be very surprised if every expensive horse bought from a small non European breeder did ended its career completly sound.

Re OCD - I thought the dutch banned any stallion that had produced horses that had developed OCD - I'm sure that I had read that somewhere - is it true?

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I am not saying that all private breeders feed correctly, i am just saying that is what I do.
breeding on the continent is more of an industry and done on a huge scale, one stud i visited had a 1000 horses with tiny foals getting trod on by others in this tiny barn.
Unfortunaltely OCD is very common on Holland amongst breeding stock
 
well you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I spent 10 years finding, breaking and bringing on young showjumpers which were then sold in the 30-30k range to both top and upcoming riders, and |I can tell you, I am not basing my opinion on price just on his bloodlines but on how careful, scopey and agile his jump is as an unbroken 3 year old. Frankly I dont care if he came from a night of passion between a donkey and a shire as long as he can jump like a stag...and this one can. Thats what I based my price on...Im delighted she was able to buy him for less, but people are prepared to pay big money for youngsters
 
I agree with you here steve, im no expert on showjumping, but my showjump trainer who competes seriously at top level used to go abroad and pay around 6k for a six month old foal! but she is a fantastic rider and many of them have gone on to grade a.
 
I don't have an opinion on the OP horse since I'm crap at choosing from pictures - too many unseen variables - but I have a couple comments on the thread.

First, "good" breeding on paper is hardly difficult to come by these days! AI means anyone anywhere can get pretty much whatever they want sent by express post (so long as the swimmers ship well) and while this is relatively recent (20 years for us common people) I don't know why it still impresses people. Also, "famous" names in the squares is not the same as intriguing breeding, if you ask me. As mentioned, almost every horse bred for sport these days has famous names in their pedigrees - that's why they're famous! Having a particular horse a couple of generations doesn't really mean all that much in context as the playing field is pretty level these days and, as we all know, blood only gives you better odds it doesn't bring guarantees.

What's might be more interesting to people in the know are certain crosses or "nicks" between bloodlines known to produce results. Even more attractive would be names "close up" which are showing good PROGENY results (performance results only count for breeding stock if it puts potential on the ground), although even "good" is situational depending on what you're breeding/buying for. There are lots of horses I'd love to have for myself I'd never buy for clients. But then these sires/dam sires tend to also be the ones everyone else wants and the price rises accordingly.

I showed a stallion not long ago which had very old breeding (Voltair, Ramiro, Cor de la Bryere etc close up - his sire was dead ) and looked the part. He was a nice horse and the owners were giddy with his pedigree but when we took him for approval assessment with the Han. inspectors they just sort of shrugged and asked why the people had bred him. When they went eight shades of red and started to splutter about his bloodlines the inspector said, "Yes, but those lines are easily available. And old. We've moved on and refined, we have no need to revisit the past." They felt he might have a place on TB mares but his bloodlines were a reason NOT to keep him entire!

Because everyone is always looking for the next big thing there is always lots of experimentation and calculated risk taking involved in breeding for the big studbooks. No one should assume every horse is on the ground because of some fail safe master plan and most breeders see the big picture - they don't expect every horse to be a world beater, or even a viable prospect, they expect to average out over the long term and maybe produce a horse or two which will jack up all their prices by association. This also means many big breeders don't waste time with anything that doesn't look great right off the back - a situation which can make for deals for people who have time and experience but not as much money.

And, as said, a horse is what it is. I don't care how good a horse is on paper, if it jumps like a wheelbarrow, or canters like a washing machine or tries to eat me it isn't worth anything in my book, no matter what it cost to put on the ground. Horses are worth, unfortunately, what people will pay. (Some of my best friends and clients are breeders. I know ALL about the risks and costs involved. Which is why I'd never get into it.
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