How much would you spend before PTS ?

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niagaraduval

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My boy who I have owned for 7 years now over the years has cost me about 6k in vet bills. He cost 2k to buy I bought him at 4 as an ex racer, Way way way over priced but I got him anyway as I just fell in love with him.

He has proven to be accident prone, I can honestly say I have never ever known a horse like it. He seems to be able to hurt himself on thin air ! I often get so many looks and people think I am paranoid as I go round and round looking for things the horse could possibly hurt himself on, I am even scared to leave buckets out in the field, or leave him with his rug on ! It's totally ridiculous.

He is covered in scars from head to toe, nice white scars on his black fur. He must have around 10 scars on him in various places of his body and they aren't small knocks !

He has also contracted severe COPD, although he apparently had it when I bought him, we were not told about it and as he was stabled on straw etc. when we went to try him we just presumed there was nothing wrong, the vet also didn't pick up on this ! I spend hundreds on breathing supplements, medication, just hoping to avoid another bout of heaves.

I can't do much with him because of his heaves, he costs me a fortune but I love him more than any other horse I have ever had.

He had really crap feet when I got him it took me about 2 years and hundreds of pounds again to get his feet strong enough to keep a shoe on for more than a few days.

Every winter I fear he will have another bout of heaves and that it might be his last. It's always on my mind no matter what. I have the worst possible thoughts whenever I see him.

He is only 10 and I feel that I can't go on like this. I feel so selfish for saying these things but in the end of the day, how much is too much ?
 
On accident/ visable injuries I'd spend quite a lot, on random lameness COPD type things personally I wouldn't spend much but look at management instead. If a good six months on Dr Green wouldn't solve whatever it was I'd struggle to spend ££££s on supliments/ MRIs etc as I personally don't believe they do much good.
If you MRI'd me you'd find all sorts wrong I'm sure but it still wouldn't help fix it.

Can you find somewhere he's out 24/7 even in winter to help with breathing?
 
Ok, so I may just get shot down for this but I do think that sometimes a financial limit does force us to make desperate choices.

If, for example, you had lost your job and were living hand to mouth you would have to consider what was in his best interests as you couldn't keep him. In that situation you would either be looking for a new home or PTS if he was not suitable for rehoming. I get the feeling he isn't suitable for rehoming and has several chronic illnesses which will impact on his quality of life.

If you don't want him any more you are at the same stage - you have to decide what is the way forward. There are far worse choices you could make than a dignified end at home with those he loves. If he is going to be suffering in winter or has another injury or illness then you would be looking to make the decision then.

Personally I would rather see someone say enough is enough, admit they can't do it any more and be responsible than try to pass on their old and sick horses for someone else to have to do the decent thing by them.
 
There isn't a possiblity of him being out 24/7 all year round. When he is in though he is on mats and a very small amount of shavings in a stable I built for him that has 4 massive windows on wall the whole walls are pretty much open I have a metal bar going across the middle so he can't jump out (not that he would..). Its as if he was out 24/7 but in a shelter int he dry.

Sunshine - Your post really helped me think about it. The reality is, I am doing every possible thing for my horse I love him to bits and I make huge sacrifices (effort, money, time) just to try and make sure he is as happy as he can be. I can't really afford it, I get the vet out if and when he needs it and then I make a deal to pay it off as in general it is more than 400 euros a time. I do find the money to pay it off in instalments but it worries me to think that every morning I might have to phone the vet again and it costs a lot of money, in reality I just can no longer afford it.
 
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On my cob I have spent in the region of thirty thousand pound on two illness. When he does something he does it properly.
 
Sunshine said:
Ok, so I may just get shot down for this but I do think that sometimes a financial limit does force us to make desperate choices.

If, for example, you had lost your job and were living hand to mouth you would have to consider what was in his best interests as you couldn't keep him. In that situation you would either be looking for a new home or PTS if he was not suitable for rehoming. I get the feeling he isn't suitable for rehoming and has several chronic illnesses which will impact on his quality of life.

If you don't want him any more you are at the same stage - you have to decide what is the way forward. There are far worse choices you could make than a dignified end at home with those he loves. If he is going to be suffering in winter or has another injury or illness then you would be looking to make the decision then.

Personally I would rather see someone say enough is enough, admit they can't do it any more and be responsible than try to pass on their old and sick horses for someone else to have to do the decent thing by them.
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This
 
Everyone is in a different situation both in terms of finance and why they have a horse in the first place. If I could only afford one horse and it developed a long term condition that meant it could not be ridden i would have it PTS. Fortunately, I can afford to keep my old horse in near retirement but it costs me a huge amount of money to keep him sound and in good health. I am fortunate that I don't have to make the hardest decision ever but I would never judge someone who did. You have given this horse the best life you can, if you can't afford to keep him going any longer then you are entitled to ask the vet to PTS. This is a much better decision than advertising him as a companion, quiet hack or loaning him to someone unsuitable, which sadly often happens in these cases.
 
Being perfectly honest its not only about money but quality of life for me as well.

My oldie has a limit of 3k on his insurance but if he was not going to be field sound without medication even if we only spent 500 quid of it then Im afraid that would be it, I couldnt bear to bute him just to be a field ornament, he would hate it, he loves being active.

Things like colic surgery I dont think I would risk, if a horse colic'ed that badly then i think I would PTS, defo for my oldie wouldnt put him through a GA.

I have been there, no job, no money trying to keep a horse like your OP that jsut seemed to hurt herself on thin air, went out into the field fully booted and rugged from head to toe to protect her and a thick bed with big thick bankings to prevent injury in the stable. So OP I know what its like to have a horse that just keeps hurting itself and costing you money and sometimes enough is enough. I rehabbed my mare after her tendon injury and then found her a lovely new home. My oldie went on loan for 7 months which let me get on my feet and when he came back i was in a position to have him.
 
Do you soak or steam his hay? You can make a hay steamer with a wheelie bin and a wallpaper stripper. You could then steam his hay before you give it to him.

I would try managing his problems. Obviously if he is suffering with no improvement despite treatment and correct management, then PTS is the kindest thing.

If he has another bad accident (or other problem eg colic) then you have to weigh up what you can afford and the prognosis (likelyhood of recovery).
 
Faracat said:
Do you soak or steam his hay? You can make a hay steamer with a wheelie bin and a wallpaper stripper. You could then steam his hay before you give it to him.

I would try managing his problems. Obviously if he is suffering with no improvement despite treatment and correct management, then PTS is the kindest thing.

If he has another bad accident (or other problem eg colic) then you have to weigh up what you can afford and the prognosis (likelyhood of recovery).
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I do soak his hay and have been managing his conditon in the best possible way I can for years. It's getting worse and worse.
 
niagaraduval said:
I do soak his hay and have been managing his conditon in the best possible way I can for years. It's getting worse and worse.
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It does sound that he is suffering, despite you giving him the best care and that you are very worried about him.

I would talk frankly to the Vet and discuss PTS and other options (ventipulmin maybe?). Set a time limit (and budget) for improvement.
 
He often is on ventipulmin which is v. expensive. He currently spends 8 months of the year out 24/7 on good grazing. I just can't bare to talk about PTS although it's been on my mind for a while now. When he does have to be in he goes out regularly he is in a stable I made for him to his needs concerning air (all 4 sides are open above the waist up to the roof). I soak his hay, he is on mats and a very small amount of shavings. Walls are hosed of once a week to get rid of any dust spores.
 
Hmm.

Accidents are, well, accidents. For those I'd be coughing up and looking, as you obviously are, at how to make his turn out safer. Is he out with others? Have you looked at how he is with different companions? (Assuming he is being injured in the field here...)

For the breathing issue I'd move him, or, if I really couldn't, look to sell, or more likely loan, him to someone with more suitable facilities. You obviously fell for him and he is relatively young and (presumably) rideable so it should be doable.

OH was saying the other day that he sees so many nice horse suffering with nice owners simply because they aren't the horse the owner needs or wants (any more). I this case it isn't you but the winter turn out.
 
It is expensive.

As he's out at the moment how is he coping? If he's not too bad you could give him the summer and then reconsider when it's time for him to his stable.

ETA. the problem is how damaged are his lungs? If 24/7 turnout all year makes him able to cope then that's great and maybe loaning him would work. However, if his lungs are damaged and his breathing isn't normal even when he's out, then it's not such a hopeful situation.
 
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sometimes its a relief after theyve gone -being guilty and trying so hard for so long is very emotionally exhausting.
its never wrong to pts if youve loved the horse so very much and tried so very hard to fix the unfixable.
 
If the issue was mechanical and could be fixed by operation- then i'd pay for it and get it sorted. If it was a degenerative condition or something that would affect the horse's life significantly.. i'd pay for no treatment and have the horse PTS before any stress or trauma was inflicted upon it.
 
One of mine cannot cope with soaked hay after a few days he starts to wheeze and cough, the only option is haylage since using it he has never needed ventipulmin and his breathing is normal, if you can get haylage it would be worth trying.
 
I didnt read all your post to try and keep a clear head so to speak.

Lots of options.

If the horse was going to be PTS at end of all efforts ie its inevitable and the spend will only lengthen its life. I think quality of life is the bottom line here. Is the horse living a horse life?

If I had no money I would take the very difficult decision to PTS IF there was a risk of horse being sold and ending up in meat market(I could not bear the thought of distress etc, so kinder to PTS).

The final question as I was in this situation last year with a vet who wanted to run tests etc on my arthritic old boy, long term deterioration etc I truly believe my vet just trying to use my horse as an experiment and to make money. I thought so and I got several horse folks in to see horse and got opinions to make the decision to PTS(ie was I doing the right thing, I knew I was, money was no object BUT for me IF i treated I was just going to cause prolonged suffering resulting in PTS).

Its up to you, its being realistic every step of the way. Good luck.
 
Im in a simliar sityation but for different reasons and i have come to decision this will be my babys last summer. Although she looks so well her stress level and eyes are deterating. i choose 3 trusted people to talk it over with and all said say goodbye. i have shed tears for months coming to decision and though the tears still fall i feel relieved and i know that sounds bad. such a hard hard time when you have to make that decision x x
 
My old pony mare was very bad winter 2011/2012 she was very thin and also has heaves in spring I nursed her over the winter and she started to pick up and by this winter she has wintered well and this spring, probably because it was so wet, went through spring without a cough.
She looks as well as she is ever going to be, she's 24 with Cushings and I have decided to have her PTS at the end of the summer. She owes me nothing and costs nothing and I will miss her terribly but I am not going to wait till she is a poorly, looking hat rack. Cherish him far as long as you think is right for you both and they let him go with happy memories.
 
I spent in excess of £40K in the 18 years I had my old girl, controlling her epileptic seizures. One of the downsides of the drugs is that they block just about every other drug on the market so there was only one available to manage her arthritis and that was about 10x the price of bute. I even had to have the vets make enquiries about whether she could have treatment for her Cushings (she could) so that was further expense. But it wasn't her fault and I felt that while she had a good quality of life I would somehow find the money for her. Last year I decided that the good days weren't sufficiently outweighing the bad ones any more (she was 29) and her age was really telling on her so I had her PTS. My goal had been to allow her to live a normal, working life and we achieved that. I'm £1000 a month better off now but I'd give it all up to have her back. Only one person can make the decision of whether to spend large sums of money, and that is the owner. Many people would have said I was absolutely mad, and I probably was, but I don't regret a penny of it.
 
niagaraduval said:
I wouldn't say he is unhappy. He needs a lot of medication and a lot of care. The thing that worries me is it is getting worse. :(
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If its degenerative then you should consider PTS before it gets to a stage where you have no option. Is there any point in waiting until it gets worse?
 
This is a personal choice and people have wildly differing views on it.
To put it at it bluntest I buy horses to do stuff with them and although I will have spent tens and tens of thousands of pounds on vets over the years I am a realist about why I have horses , when the money/ enjoyment ratio tips the wrong way I put them to sleep .
I do keep old pals that have had long careers with us changing their jobs as they age in line with circumstances but young ones that go wrong with no hope of being sound enough to do a job I cut my loses and never pass my problems on.
 
I really feel for you in the tough situation you are in. Whatever you decide will be done because you care about your horse and want to do the best for him.
I personally would always pts rather than allow an animal that needed specials care leave and risk it suffering it somewhere else.
Only you can decide when enough is enough, whatever you decide, at some point in the future you will have to let him go and pts is a responsible action for an animal that is suffering.
 
Can I suggest you contact Ellen Collinson who is resident in France. She is an iridologist, herbalist and racehorse trainer. The herbal respiratory supplement is inexpensive.

We had a horse with COPD and Ellen's respiratory herbs actually cured the problem. The horse in question has been free of COPD for 4 years now.

http://www.equineiridology.eu/oat.php
 
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