How not to school a youngster through water!!

Well I could see it!. I think its unfair to pass too harsh a judgement as we don't know the entire story or history of the mare. So now, knowing that the issue is a mare who is iffy but will go in.. I wonder if that changes anyones mind?

Puddles don't really work for me. I can make mine do it all day but it is nothing like having to go through water properly. I have always done it with a good chilled out lead horse never on my own though and picked shallow water to walk into. My youngster places huge reliance on me and the other horses around him and that helped with the water. I had my YO on him and he was saying a resounding no. I stuck on my wellies, walked in and he followed!

Finally, I would not give up on the thought of "we are going to have the problem with strange venues" while it is (coughs gently) somewhat of a cheat, don't forget that while you may not have the best introduction, when you event, you keep going back to the same places for the vast majority of the time, so why not pick on places that run unaffiliated first, then go back to the affiliated once you have had some runs? its a longer option but would work. Some horses are bold and take to everything easily, some just need repetition, repetition and ....repetition.
 
Ah yes - 125 penalties BE for that!

What would I do? Shorten my stirrups, sit up, slip the reins rather than letting her pull me forwards. She doesn't look scared so make sure she's taking more notice of you than of the water, ie as soon as she starts to slow give her a sharp reminder that she goes forwards when you say she goes forwards.

I don't think she does need a confident lead horse, I think she needs to be confident that you won't put her in dangerous situations and that when you say "go" it means the situation isn't dangerous and she must go. I'd practice that on the ground and ridden with strange and frightening objects that she has to walk and trot over, under and through.

I also think, having seen your other video of the offset skinnies a few days ago that you need some regular instruction from a proper XC coach.
 
Agree Luci, from the previous comments and the fact I couldn't see the vid I expected some horrendous horse abuse had been going on. What I saw was a rider not allowing the horse to do anything but go forward into the water then when the horse who was clearly going to go actually went, fell off. Not the end of the world at all just "hing on" the next time. Looks to me as if she will just get used to it in time. My mare had a similar thing about ditches and nothing would get her to walk through a small dry ditch. In the end I would leg yield her across a very shallow ditch and get a hacking partner to walk off so she had no choice but to cross it to follow her over a slighter deeper bit. She is now fine with ditches ;). I do agree a lead horse might get her more confident and also out hacking trot or canter through as many puddles as you can to increase her confidence.
 
Luci07 said:
Well I could see it!. I think its unfair to pass too harsh a judgement as we don't know the entire story or history of the mare. So now, knowing that the issue is a mare who is iffy but will go in.. I wonder if that changes anyones mind?

Puddles don't really work for me. I can make mine do it all day but it is nothing like having to go through water properly. I have always done it with a good chilled out lead horse never on my own though and picked shallow water to walk into. My youngster places huge reliance on me and the other horses around him and that helped with the water. I had my YO on him and he was saying a resounding no. I stuck on my wellies, walked in and he followed!

Finally, I would not give up on the thought of "we are going to have the problem with strange venues" while it is (coughs gently) somewhat of a cheat, don't forget that while you may not have the best introduction, when you event, you keep going back to the same places for the vast majority of the time, so why not pick on places that run unaffiliated first, then go back to the affiliated once you have had some runs? its a longer option but would work. Some horses are bold and take to everything easily, some just need repetition, repetition and ....repetition.
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Hi, yes my Mare is definately the one that needs repetition, she is a genuine mare I don't actually think that she minds the water, its just the 'unknown'. I have taken her to about 4 unaffiliated XC and she went through the water fine in 3 out of 4, 3 were heading towards the other horses and lorry park which she didnt really hesitate at all, the last one were she stopped was going away from the lorry park and horsesand it was only a stream, i'd guarentee if it was facing the lorry park she would have gone first time, she always goes eventually usually on 2nd or 3rd attempt.

My first BE affiliated event on her is at the end of March but luckily they don't have a water jump! lol
 
WelshD said:
A typical 'I didn't get the replies I wanted' reaction I suspect.
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I think that is rather rude, she did get ambushed a little, I suspect everyone who wrote non helpful comments has never got it slightly wrong before...

OP looking at your second video I don't think you're the devil, youngsters, and especially mares sometimes need a little more time to decide exactly what they would like to do with that water.
 
jemima*askin said:
Ah yes - 125 penalties BE for that!

What would I do? Shorten my stirrups, sit up, slip the reins rather than letting her pull me forwards. She doesn't look scared so make sure she's taking more notice of you than of the water, ie as soon as she starts to slow give her a sharp reminder that she goes forwards when you say she goes forwards.

I don't think she does need a confident lead horse, I think she needs to be confident that you won't put her in dangerous situations and that when you say "go" it means the situation isn't dangerous and she must go. I'd practice that on the ground and ridden with strange and frightening objects that she has to walk and trot over, under and through.
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This pretty much. All comes down to confidence, softness and trust at the end of the day...wherever you want to go, she should accept whatever you ask won't end badly for her and go forwards and do it. I personally do not use a lead horse with my own ones, for that reason [not all as each horse is different etc, but just the majority I tend not to]. I like them accepting and bold...as there will be a day where you're put in a situation where you don't have a lead and will need to go on trust and do it yourself. :)


For other exercises, have you got any fords or streams in the hacking around you? Whenever I'm out and about, if I find a stream or water source, I go in it with them [footing pending] at any opportunity. :)
 
jemima*askin said:
Ah yes - 125 penalties BE for that!

What would I do? Shorten my stirrups, sit up, slip the reins rather than letting her pull me forwards. She doesn't look scared so make sure she's taking more notice of you than of the water, ie as soon as she starts to slow give her a sharp reminder that she goes forwards when you say she goes forwards.

I don't think she does need a confident lead horse, I think she needs to be confident that you won't put her in dangerous situations and that when you say "go" it means the situation isn't dangerous and she must go. I'd practice that on the ground and ridden with strange and frightening objects that she has to walk and trot over, under and through.

I also think, having seen your other video of the offset skinnies a few days ago that you need some regular instruction from a proper XC coach.
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Ironically I do have regular instruction but not with a XC Coach so I know where you are coming from.
I also have a feeling I may be asking her for too much too soon, she is a super showjumper, very brave and not been known to stop and I've had her 2 years, I assumed that when we started XC she would have the same amount of bravery but this doesn't seem the case, I have taken her to clinics, then we did a 2'3 comp to school her she loved it, she seemed to think it was a bit insulting to take her over 2'3 lol, took her to 3 2'6 competitions, went clear on 2 of them, hesitated at water at one of them. Last time we took her to a XC comp at 2'6 was last June and she just treated it like a little schooling session, but this is at the same XC venue, when we take her to others I will start her off small again as she will have to face different jumps, its so difficult to know what to do with her without scaring her, I know when we both feel ready to go up a level but theres no rush.
Shes 7 in April so shes not super young.
 
RunToEarth said:
I think that is rather rude, she did get ambushed a little, I suspect everyone who wrote non helpful comments has never got it slightly wrong before...

OP looking at your second video I don't think you're the devil, youngsters, and especially mares sometimes need a little more time to decide exactly what they would like to do with that water.
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Thank you for that, I am on here for advice, constructive critism and encouragement I don't want to ruin my Mare and scare her for life which is why I am asking for peoples experiences and whats the best thing to do, my horse is precious to me and I don't want to do anything that would damage her confidence or scare her. Its strange as in SJ she almost seems to look after me, yet in XC she is looking for me to look after her so it is so important that I get it right.
 
opinionuk said:
Ironically I do have regular instruction but not with a XC Coach so I know where you are coming from.
I also have a feeling I may be asking her for too much too soon, she is a super showjumper, very brave and not been known to stop and I've had her 2 years, I assumed that when we started XC she would have the same amount of bravery but this doesn't seem the case, I have taken her to clinics, then we did a 2'3 comp to school her she loved it, she seemed to think it was a bit insulting to take her over 2'3 lol, took her to 3 2'6 competitions, went clear on 2 of them, hesitated at water at one of them. Last time we took her to a XC comp at 2'6 was last June and she just treated it like a little schooling session, but this is at the same XC venue, when we take her to others I will start her off small again as she will have to face different jumps, its so difficult to know what to do with her without scaring her, I know when we both feel ready to go up a level but theres no rush.
Shes 7 in April so shes not super young.
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I've found that problem swapping something that's very careful showjumping, to then swap to XC. Some can lose their confidence a bit as it's quite different to being 'calm and collected' round a SJ course. Think you just need to get her balanced and confident working in a more forwards pace out in the open and at rustic fences. Take her for a few schooling sessions over a derby course somewhere, then you're in a larger arena with a mixture of showjumps and XC jumps? How is she jumping normally [ie, anything other than water]?

Have you taken her hunting?
 
Swap some of your sessions for some with a BE coach!

As for not scaring her. I'd get that out of the way at home, as above. You want her to be doing what you say, unquestioningly, at this level. From what you say she's only having issues with the water, not the height of the fences and tbh if you get a big E at BE80 for TE at the water it's a waste of time and money. She's not a little horse, she should be perfectly happy schooling 3'. She's not a baby, she needs to trust you, not have seen every possible jump she might ever meet competitively.

She needs to trust you and you need to believe in her and equip yourself with the techniques to help her out where she needs it.:)
 
Seriously... Take your time and repeat repeat repeat. Start off by walking her through it, big pats and lots of praise when you get to the other side, then trot through in a few times, then canter through... make it into a game! Go away, pop a few logs and then come back to the water and repeat again... the more you do it, the more confident she'll get :)

Some just need quiet repetition - my youngster did with loading and on saturday I was so proud of him when he loaded with minimal hesitation, after several months of not going anywhere... and with someone else loading him too :)
 
jemima*askin said:
Swap some of your sessions for some with a BE coach!

As for not scaring her. I'd get that out of the way at home, as above. You want her to be doing what you say, unquestioningly, at this level. From what you say she's only having issues with the water, not the height of the fences and tbh if you get a big E at BE80 for TE at the water it's a waste of time and money. She's not a little horse, she should be perfectly happy schooling 3'. She's not a baby, she needs to trust you, not have seen every possible jump she might ever meet competitively.

She needs to trust you and you need to believe in her and equip yourself with the techniques to help her out where she needs it.:)
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Echo this. I always forget things I was going to post until someone reminds me posting after lol! Have the mind set of a jump is a jump, don't treat a single jump as different to any other. To them or you, it shouldn't be any different, especially anything under 2ft9. Whatever they 'look' like, get the instruction there that it is just to simply jump it qithout question. I just visualise whatever jump as a 'block' and don't think about it in any more detail than that. You should have the schooling and the aids there, so just apply them.

I'm not a jumper by any stretch of the imagination, there's plenty more experienced than me on here so take what I say as you please as it's only what works for me...I have no interest in BE or competing competitively myself, I love to hunt and I just do it for myself and have a pop over anything we find if it's safe. When coblet is older, I'll expect the same from him. He's already got the 'whatever goes' attitude, so my hope is we'll keep it :)
 
Some good advice given. Going along the lines of what the others have said, one thing that stuck out for me was your horse at one point stretched her head down to look and you pulled her head back and kicked her on, as the others have said best to let her 'look' and take your time. Fantastic horse though v forward and brave. X
 
Apsolutly don't thnk Op did anything terrible , yes she could have ridden slower firmer and quieter yes she lost her position yes she ought to have had a neck strap to hold when the mare was in the dither moment ,a neck strap might well have saved her the dunking .
But the title of the thread shows she knew it was not her finest hour so clearly she will learn from this it's just a blip and does not need building into a big issue people learn from mistakes and don't need slating over ever little thing they could have done better..
 
ChristmasSparkles said:
I've found that problem swapping something that's very careful showjumping, to then swap to XC. Some can lose their confidence a bit as it's quite different to being 'calm and collected' round a SJ course. Think you just need to get her balanced and confident working in a more forwards pace out in the open and at rustic fences. Take her for a few schooling sessions over a derby course somewhere, then you're in a larger arena with a mixture of showjumps and XC jumps? How is she jumping normally [ie, anything other than water]?

Have you taken her hunting?
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Heres a vid of her jumping on the same day after the water experience!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoSLcWl0xxE&feature=youtu.be

I haven't taken her hunting, as I went on a Lucinda Green XC Clinic and she said don'tever take that horse hunting you will die! lol
She is super hyper around other horses when shes outside, in an arena shes good as gold but out in the open seems to freak her out a bit, confidence issue again, this happens if she is in company or alone.
 
There is no set or right way to train a horse to go XC. If there was it would all be so easy. I have only ever had 1 horse who walked straight into water as a baby and didn't make a fuss and he was the boldest horse I have ever had. Everything has had to be built up. I think it is really important to get the horse used to jumping the sort of questions they will get (skinnies, ditches) which can be built in a school and really do believe in repetition. Its my word of the day!. You can have a horse that is flying up the grades and making it all so easy and then scares itself and needs to step down again or the horse that needs to really consolidate. My horse is the latter. He needs longer but to date, has proved that once he has really tucked something into his belt, its there to stay.

I would also stay away from jumping into the water - you won't need to do that till you reach Novice, 100 and below is all about stepping into the water so maybe don't try to school with drops till your mare is really really confident. Neck strap is a really good idea ( I have one!) though have also stuck on a breastplate as it has less movement than a neck strap and is a good sharp reminder to keep my hands down (which is what I need)
 
sounds like you have her pretty sussed. The best dunking i had was in a group lesson. Horse was stepping down into the water happily. Instructor wanted him jumping in so yelled at me to KICK so i did. He promptly dived ( think Tom Daley style) with knees and ears level, landed on his nose in a foot of muddy water, used me as traction to stand up, shook and trotted off. i clambered out to bn told to get on and keep my damm heels down! i now carry a whole dry set of clothes including undies :-O!
 
Oops... not good!

It looks from your other videos that you are near me, if you want to meet up somewhere like Leyland Court or Hollisters then Genie could nanny her. The biggest problem I have with Genie is curbing her enthusiasm for water!
 
Don't want to criticise but don't bully her in. She needs time to put her mind at ease and be sure it's safe. If poss find a confident horse and rider to give you a lead and allow your youngster to see that she'll come to no harm. Don't forget the horse puts a huge amount of trust in it's rider when going through unfamiliar water (as opposed to a puddle on the yard or a stream through it's field) as it has no idea how deep it is. Be a trustworthy navigator by riding with confidence, not aggression.

Hope you're okay! :)
 
im really sorry OP.................but i laughed :D :D

no advice really except lead horse?

ive only ever done XC once and even that was 1 too many times! :D
 
miss_c said:
Oops... not good!

It looks from your other videos that you are near me, if you want to meet up somewhere like Leyland Court or Hollisters then Genie could nanny her. The biggest problem I have with Genie is curbing her enthusiasm for water!
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Oh that would be absolutely fantastic! thank you, its really difficult finding somebody to XC with. I went to Leyland Court the other week doing portables in the arena but need to get her out on the course and in that damn water! lol
 
noodle_ said:
im really sorry OP.................but i laughed :D :D

no advice really except lead horse?

ive only ever done XC once and even that was 1 too many times! :D
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I laughed aswell! luckily not hurt just wet! my concern was the horse but she trotted a 100 yards up the open field and started eating grass shes such a greedy mare so it can't have traumatised her that much lol
 
opinionuk said:
Oh that would be absolutely fantastic! thank you, its really difficult finding somebody to XC with. I went to Leyland Court the other week doing portables in the arena but need to get her out on the course and in that damn water! lol
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Cool send me a PM when you want to go! I'm pretty busy but if we can't find a date I know a lot of people who would happily go round with you! :)
 
I'm lucky where I live as I have a couple of ponds and a number of streams on my farm and just off the farm they lead into a larger stream which in turn runs into a huge river. All of my youngsters are taken into these streams and end up within no time going into the river so by the time they're 4 years old and are ready to progress further, water is just part and parcel of what they do; they don't question it. If you live in an area that has river/streams then I'd hack out as much as you can incorporating streams into your daily hacks. I think she did fine, she just needs more experience in going through streams.

How old is she btw?
 
ChristmasSparkles said:
Have you taken her hunting?
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Which doesn't always work :( I used to have the hugest poofter of an arab gelding that would not do water. He'd stand and go to sleep (switch off, aversion tactic) whilst the rest of the field were two valleys away.

It was a standing joke amongst my hunting friends that I needed two people to get Ali over a stream, one jammed against his side and another right up his rear end to shunt him over - it was the ony thing that worked, ever:D
 
Spring Feather said:
I'm lucky where I live as I have a couple of ponds and a number of streams on my farm and just off the farm they lead into a larger stream which in turn runs into a huge river. All of my youngsters are taken into these streams and end up within no time going into the river so by the time they're 4 years old and are ready to progress further, water is just part and parcel of what they do; they don't question it. If you live in an area that has river/streams then I'd hack out as much as you can incorporating streams into your daily hacks. I think she did fine, she just needs more experience in going through streams.

How old is she btw?
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She is 7 in April
 
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