How often do you shoe?

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Ceriann

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Done to death I know but I've only ever had horses with great feet (all IDx) and never had problems either bare foot or shod. Newbie has a good dose of TB and typical TB fronts. I've had X-rays that identified balance issues and purchase vetting flagged the beginning of underrun heels. Nothing horrendous but my first post purchase set of shoes highlighted this with some intermittent front lameness. On vet and farrier advice she's in eggbars and has been great since - I'm working on this being a temp approach with plan being to transition her to normal but longer heel support shoes over winter. Ideally I would like to giver her a shoe break this winter too. She's reshod every 6 weeks but last few days in run up to re-shoeing (this is only her second set) she seems a little off. Not lame or footy in the normal sense, slightly more reluctant to go forward in that her trot to canter transitions are less messier, she falls out of canter more. I've noticed she still has regular hoolies around the field (which were far less frequent before these shoes went on). She's a nice natured horse so will always do what you ask but I'm wandering whether she's feeling her feet? If so do I shorten the period to re-shoe to 5 weeks? Farrier was reluctant to do it last time as he wants her to grow more foot but I'm not sure that trumps balance?!
 
TBh, if she was mine I'd pull the shoes straight away and barefoot rehab her. IME, 'typical TB feet' generally means shoe sick hooves with long toes and under-run heels. I did that (with the full support of the farrier) with my anglo arab mare who had terribly unbalanced hooves, so I would be pretty keen to do the same again as it was so successful.
 
Faracat said:
TBh, if she was mine I'd pull the shoes straight away and barefoot rehab her. IME, 'typical TB feet' generally means shoe sick hooves with long toes and under-run heels. I did that (with the full support of the farrier) with my anglo arab mare who had terribly unbalanced hooves, so I would be pretty keen to do the same again as it was so successful.
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X-rays didn't indicate anything terrible and vet was keen to explore better heel support and just better trimming. I've seriously considered barefoot but in reality it would mean a long period of no work for her (which in some ways would be counter productive) and my vet (who I trust) advised against it. She will def get a break winter.

My other two are bare, one coped very well bare even when ridden a lot, the other didn't and needed fronts.
 
Ceriann said:
X-rays didn't indicate anything terrible and vet was keen to explore better heel support and just better trimming. I've seriously considered barefoot but in reality it would mean a long period of no work for her (which in some ways would be counter productive) and my vet (who I trust) advised against it. She will def get a break winter.

My other two are bare, one coped very well bare even when ridden a lot, the other didn't and needed fronts.
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You don't know yet if she'd have to stop work or for how long. I personally think that good hooves are vitally important and that getting them right is the foundation building block that everything else rests on. I also mean a proper rehab, not just taking the shoes off and popping her in the field. So that would require looking at the diet and movement on surfaces that she is comfortable on. I found that smooth tarmac is generally an 'easy' surface, so walking out in hand to start with and then moving onto ridden is a big part of rehabbing.

It is also sadly my experience that many vets are still ignorant about barefoot rehabs with is great shame especially for horses with navicular diagnoses. Hopefully this is something that will change in the future.
 
There's no reason it would mean a period of no work. Vets aren't experts about BF by a million miles. With modern hoof boots it's never been easier to transition a horse and with the issues you describe it's your best option for long term soundness. Have a look at scoot boots. Just got these for my mare although the top size appear to be too small for her ridiculously large feet, the concept is great. Luckily it appears we may not need them after all, anyway.

Vets and farriers are nearly never going to recommend BF but it's nearly always going to improve the horses feet where as shoeing is only going to degrade them.
 
Without repeating all the reasons for going barefoot, which I would do sooner rather than later so you have a decent chance of riding her continually, I have found the optimum time for shoeing anything that has had any form of balance or compromised feet issues has been 4-5 weeks, if they are a bit "off" for the last week then it shows something is going on and the foot has started to become out of balance so shoeing must be brought forward even if there is not much foot growth the little there is will start to alter the balance inside, which is in part why going barefoot makes so much sense.

Just to add if they are in eggbars or heartbars it is even more important they are shod more frequently as the shoe will hold the foot in even more of an unbalanced way once there is some growth.
 
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Faracat said:
TBh, if she was mine I'd pull the shoes straight away and barefoot rehab her. IME, 'typical TB feet' generally means shoe sick hooves with long toes and under-run heels. I did that (with the full support of the farrier) with my anglo arab mare who had terribly unbalanced hooves, so I would be pretty keen to do the same again as it was so successful.
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This! I read your post with a sense of impending doom. You are in a position where you can do something about this now before it becomes a massive issue. Another ocuple of shoeing cycles and you might be looking at her being not right all the time.
 
Faracat said:
You don't know yet if she'd have to stop work or for how long. I personally think that good hooves are vitally important and that getting them right is the foundation building block that everything else rests on. I also mean a proper rehab, not just taking the shoes off and popping her in the field. So that would require looking at the diet and movement on surfaces that she is comfortable on. I found that smooth tarmac is generally an 'easy' surface, so walking out in hand to start with and then moving onto ridden is a big part of rehabbing.

It is also sadly my experience that many vets are still ignorant about barefoot rehabs with is great shame especially for horses with navicular diagnoses. Hopefully this is something that will change in the future.
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Shoes came off when she presented lame when she was first shod after I bought her. She was footy, even in the field (albeit it was when we'd had a dry period so ground was quite hard). With time off winter, I wasn't planning a break and field rest, I was just factoring in softer ground so she could at least be comfortable out. Her diet is already good, in that she gets no real feed - grass and hay supplemented by simple hay cobs and a plain chaff (nothing molassed).
 
It's very rare that I would have a shod horse on a regular 6 week interval. I usually find that even if the shoes are holding ok and have sufficient wear that the foot balance is generally needing attention. I generally plan on 5 weeks and if the scheduling doesn't work would bring it forwards a few days rather than leaving it.
 
FfionWinnie said:
There's no reason it would mean a period of no work. Vets aren't experts about BF by a million miles. With modern hoof boots it's never been easier to transition a horse and with the issues you describe it's your best option for long term soundness. Have a look at scoot boots. Just got these for my mare although the top size appear to be too small for her ridiculously large feet, the concept is great. Luckily it appears we may not need them after all, anyway.

Vets and farriers are nearly never going to recommend BF but it's nearly always going to improve the horses feet where as shoeing is only going to degrade them.
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My farrier was ready to work with barefoot but discussion with vet resulted in the current plan. I've looked into boots and got a couple in mind for when shoes come off - I've read that scoots are better suited to this with good feet and this with underrun heels etc are better in macs or similar? Is yours ok without boots I assume? That's great.
 
ihatework said:
It's very rare that I would have a shod horse on a regular 6 week interval. I usually find that even if the shoes are holding ok and have sufficient wear that the foot balance is generally needing attention. I generally plan on 5 weeks and if the scheduling doesn't work would bring it forwards a few days rather than leaving it.
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Thanks - this is where I am and frank discussion just been had with farrier that we have to move to 5 weeks. I've also discussed with my instructor who noted last time pre-shoeing (approx 3/4 days before due date) that she wasn't as expressive in her paces. He is never able to bring shoeing forward as he's too busy so i need to get the cycle right.
 
Ceriann said:
My farrier was ready to work with barefoot but discussion with vet resulted in the current plan. I've looked into boots and got a couple in mind for when shoes come off - I've read that scoots are better suited to this with good feet and this with underrun heels etc are better in macs or similar? Is yours ok without boots I assume? That's great.
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It depends how bad the feet are as to what you'll need to use initially, but my point was really even if she needs boots once her feet are fixed, there are lots more choices now and it's never been easier. If you have a school / soft surfaces initially that's good too.

I've only had my mare a couple of weeks and she had roaring thrush when I got the shoes off. Initially I thought she was going to need boots but since we haven't managed to get any to fit her I've just been working without them and actually as the thrush has gone I'm now thinking I was too quick to think she did. She's a cob with very good feet (other than the thrush!) however I don't have a school or anything other than quite stoney tracks and I want to get a fair bit done with her before the dark nights set in as I need a nanny on the road at the moment. Otherwise I would just have been happy to take it at her speed.
 
My mare used to only go 4 weeks in summer and 6 in winter. 5 years ago her shoes came off due to flat feet, thin soles and bruising. She spent time on box rest and a deep bed following which the vet wanted her in imprints and then heart bars.

With the support of some lovely people on here and my farrier we kept her barefoot and she hasn't been shod for 5 years. She does everything she did shod and more bare, including hunting.
 
ihatework said:
It's very rare that I would have a shod horse on a regular 6 week interval. I usually find that even if the shoes are holding ok and have sufficient wear that the foot balance is generally needing attention. I generally plan on 5 weeks and if the scheduling doesn't work would bring it forwards a few days rather than leaving it.
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This. Mine are on 5 or so weeks and, although the ID could easily go 6, I prefer to be sooner rather than later.
 
FfionWinnie said:
It depends how bad the feet are as to what you'll need to use initially, but my point was really even if she needs boots once her feet are fixed, there are lots more choices now and it's never been easier. If you have a school / soft surfaces initially that's good too.

I've only had my mare a couple of weeks and she had roaring thrush when I got the shoes off. Initially I thought she was going to need boots but since we haven't managed to get any to fit her I've just been working without them and actually as the thrush has gone I'm now thinking I was too quick to think she did. She's a cob with very good feet (other than the thrush!) however I don't have a school or anything other than quite stoney tracks and I want to get a fair bit done with her before the dark nights set in as I need a nanny on the road at the moment. Otherwise I would just have been happy to take it at her speed.
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I will speak to farrier again and get a plan - foot issue raised so early after getting her, and as she was so sore with no shoes (coupled with fact her foot structure isn't that bad - v slight underrun heel but v healthy frog and hoof walk) I decided to shoe and wait to give her a break. Given ground is already soft so might be sooner than I'd thought. We had very stoney ground round yard and on poor track to yard which I think aggravated the issue (this is where spring summer grazing is) - it's just been redone so whilst still stone, it's smooth. All round better to contemporary late whacking the shoes off.
 
My ISH who is 7/8 Tb and has typical TB feet, was shod every 5. By week 4 they were starting to look like most horses look at week 6. It was a system that worked for us.
When he was in work he didn't cope barefoot (we tried) but now he is living out he has been barefoot since July.
 
I was really interested in the paper referenced below which had 1326 owner responses, and looked at problem behaviours in horses in relation to lots of variables such as shoeing, type of saddle, training methods etc, and found "Horses that had last seen the farrier seven or more weeks prior to the respondent completing the survey were associated with a four-fold increase in the likelihood of expressing physical discomfort behaviour..." (Equipment and training risk factors associated with ridden behaviour problems in UK leisure horses, Hockenhgull and Creighton, Applied Animal Behaviour Science 137 (2012) 36-42)

So definitely no more than seven! Personally I think I'd play it by ear with the horse, having read that I guess I'd go with a bog standard six unless there was something else going on.

However this paper did also find that barefoot horses had less behavioural/conflict issues, but then again that could be due to lots of factors as IME barefoot people tend to keep their horses quite differently anyway - and as the paper points out the owners may just be more adept at noticing problems early because they're paying more attention to the feet.
 
I never allow anything in any circumstance to do more than five weeks the foot balance is too compromised by any longer .
In summer we avoid fast work and competitions between week four and five .
 
Goldenstar said:
I never allow anything in any circumstance to do more than five weeks the foot balance is too compromised by any longer .
In summer we avoid fast work and competitions between week four and five .
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This is exactly where we are I think - I need to reduce time between farrier going forward. When she came, previous owner said 6 weeks on the dot but its more like 5 to 5 and a half max. I will go with 5 as better early than late. Do you maintain this through winter too?
 
Morgan123 said:
I was really interested in the paper referenced below which had 1326 owner responses, and looked at problem behaviours in horses in relation to lots of variables such as shoeing, type of saddle, training methods etc, and found "Horses that had last seen the farrier seven or more weeks prior to the respondent completing the survey were associated with a four-fold increase in the likelihood of expressing physical discomfort behaviour..." (Equipment and training risk factors associated with ridden behaviour problems in UK leisure horses, Hockenhgull and Creighton, Applied Animal Behaviour Science 137 (2012) 36-42)

So definitely no more than seven! Personally I think I'd play it by ear with the horse, having read that I guess I'd go with a bog standard six unless there was something else going on.

However this paper did also find that barefoot horses had less behavioural/conflict issues, but then again that could be due to lots of factors as IME barefoot people tend to keep their horses quite differently anyway - and as the paper points out the owners may just be more adept at noticing problems early because they're paying more attention to the feet.
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Thanks - I will dig that article out. 7 weeks would def not work with my mare as she's not yet at 6 weeks but will be interesting to see what it says.
 
Ceriann said:
X-rays didn't indicate anything terrible and vet was keen to explore better heel support and just better trimming. I've seriously considered barefoot but in reality it would mean a long period of no work for her (which in some ways would be counter productive) and my vet (who I trust) advised against it. She will def get a break winter.

My other two are bare, one coped very well bare even when ridden a lot, the other didn't and needed fronts.
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X-rays are less likely to show anything untoward if the hooves are in the early stages of issues. It's usually starts with soft tissue which don't show up unless you MRI.

Having just spent a year rehabbing my Warmblood following a DDFT tear, collateral ligament damage, navicular bursitis and the start of bone deterioration in the right fore, I would pull the shoes off your horse and give it the chance to grow the feet it needs.
 
Ceriann said:
Good to know people work on much shorter cycles - is there a particular reason for this or do you just find yours manage better on this?
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He has crappy feet, although they are much better than they were when he was younger. His feet do not grow much, but farrier said the feet were better on a 4 week cycle in summer (something to do with the balance toward the end of the cycle).
 
Ceriann said:
Shoes came off when she presented lame when she was first shod after I bought her. She was footy, even in the field (albeit it was when we'd had a dry period so ground was quite hard). With time off winter, I wasn't planning a break and field rest, I was just factoring in softer ground so she could at least be comfortable out. Her diet is already good, in that she gets no real feed - grass and hay supplemented by simple hay cobs and a plain chaff (nothing molassed).
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Make sure there's no alfalfa, introduce some micronised linseed and get her started on a good hoof supplement (equimins, forage plus, pro earth).
 
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