How often do you shoe?

Make sure there's no alfalfa, introduce some micronised linseed and get her started on a good hoof supplement (equimins, forage plus, pro earth).

Thanks - I don't feed alfalfa due to one of my others. She's been on formula 4 feet but read some less positive reviews so am looking for another. Waiting for a call from my vet today as farrier coming tomorrow. Will be having a good look at her feet with shoes off and whilst we'll reshoe this time (I need some time to prep), I'm taking her off them on the next cycle for at least winter (we'll see how it goes). I've got a school, a smoothish hardcore track to the yard and a tarmaced road off the fields so plenty of surfaces to work her on. If I do it then she will still be going out 24/7 at that point too which will help.
 
Spoke to the farrier at a vet hospital today and it was a very interesting conversation. He said they need 3 months out of shoes or you are wasting your time taking them off. He also said he uses equilibrium shoes almost as standard now and he grinds part of the toe out of them so the horse doesn't wreck its joints doing that itself. It was a fantastic conversation indeed the only farrier convo I've enjoyed having (and I used to be married to one lol). He talked about making sure the heel was there by not chopping it off as most farriers do, he only trimmed the toe and focused on break over.

What he was saying to me really echoed all the ethos of BF, just with a shoe on. I don't expect he would agree with my summation (as he did tell me my horses hinds are far too bare but I really don't think they are lol) but it did make me realise that there are farriers and farriers and to find one like that, is golden. Oh and he suggested I got him boots for the hinds which I thought was interesting ;)
 
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Spoke to the farrier at a vet hospital today and it was a very interesting conversation. He said they need 3 months out of shoes or you are wasting your time taking them off. He also said he uses equilibrium shoes almost as standard now and he grinds part of the toe out of them so the horse doesn't wreck its joints doing that itself. It was a fantastic conversation indeed the only farrier convo I've enjoyed having (and I used to be married to one lol). He talked about making sure the heel was there by not chopping it off as most farriers do, he only trimmed the toe and focused on break over.

What he was saying to me really echoed all the ethos of BF, just with a shoe on. I don't expect he would agree with my summation (as he did tell me my horses hinds are far too bare but I really don't think they are lol) but it did make me realise that there are farriers and farriers and to find one like that, is golden. Oh and he suggested I got him boots for the hinds which I thought was interesting ;)

That's interesting - mine at the moment tends to comment about how poor her feet are and how they've been allowed (with previous owner, who's OH was the farrier) to get like this. They're not that bad in that she has a good frog, horn quality is good (not crumbling/cracking) but heels are underrun so we do need to address it. Focus is too much on getting shoes on and not the feet above the shoe if that makes sense. He's coming tomorrow so will discuss the points you raise and will be preparing him for shoes off in 5 weeks time. I will be watching him closely tomorrow!

I will be playing it by ear but if she comes out of shoes toward end October I would have thought it's at least 12 weeks to see any real improvement so would want to go a bit longer than that. I've had plenty of horses barefoot before and my last horse only had fronts - although they did do a lot less (and had a bit more native in them) I'm sure I'm overthinking all of this!
 
With my horse I've been banging on to usual farrier that I wasn't happy with the balance of the feet. I did take the shoes off but he's such a destructive eejit that he will be hard to get the fronts bare. I'm considering selling him next year so I decided this is the way to go for now and it appears to be working. If I was keeping long term I would be taking a different approach.
 
Thanks - I don't feed alfalfa due to one of my others. She's been on formula 4 feet but read some less positive reviews so am looking for another. Waiting for a call from my vet today as farrier coming tomorrow. Will be having a good look at her feet with shoes off and whilst we'll reshoe this time (I need some time to prep), I'm taking her off them on the next cycle for at least winter (we'll see how it goes). I've got a school, a smoothish hardcore track to the yard and a tarmaced road off the fields so plenty of surfaces to work her on. If I do it then she will still be going out 24/7 at that point too which will help.

You'll be amazed how feet "spring back" to what they need to be when the restrictions of a shoe are removed. The winter might be all that's needed to breath life back into collapsed heels and beef up a withered frog. Just because tbs have notoriously bad feet, it has nothing to do with genetics, in fact the best rehabs I've seen were tb, it's to do with how early the shoeing cycle started to how stunted the feet become.

With decent highly bioavailable nutrients, a good source of amino acids and space for the horse to grow the foot it needs, you will be looking at different hoof shapes come the spring.

I think sometimes when you don't have the voices of support you need, it's hard to make a leap into the "unknown"... believe me and the many here, who say it is not unknown! It is WELL known, it's just that some people choose not to know it and hard to find those that do. Especially in "traditional" circles who seem to think people who leave horses unshod are part of some sort of shamanic tribe :D.
 
With my horse I've been banging on to usual farrier that I wasn't happy with the balance of the feet. I did take the shoes off but he's such a destructive eejit that he will be hard to get the fronts bare. I'm considering selling him next year so I decided this is the way to go for now and it appears to be working. If I was keeping long term I would be taking a different approach.

Noooo what! He looks like a dude.. keep him :D
 
Just because tbs have notoriously bad feet, it has nothing to do with genetics, in fact the best rehabs I've seen were tb, it's to do with how early the shoeing cycle started to how stunted the feet become.

:D.

I am certainly not knowledgeable about shoeing but am fortunate that my farrier is excellent (master farrier and does remedial work at the equine hosp) He is certainly not adverse to BF. When I bought my 7/8ths TB horse his feet were dreadful, v long in the toe, collapsed heels and balance all over the place, farriers comment when I said "typical TB" was that apart from his feet being a bit small for his size it was all due to rubbish farriery and that his feet were basically fine. We've been through shoeing 4 weekly, 5 weekly, heart bar shoes etc and it took a year for his feet to look OK. Three years on and he is shod every 6 weeks, his feet are excellent and he stands and moves correctly. I don't know if you should go BF or not but I do think many problems are caused by poor farriery rather than the horse having poor feet.
 
I shoe fronts only every six weeks BUT now my horses are at home and this being my second winter, the shoes will be coming off at the end of October for a winter break due to the lack of daylight to ride in due to work commitments. I will however be using this BF period to crack on and BF rehab them.

I transitioned my ISH last year/ winter to BF. Frustratingly come this spring he still wasnt quiet able to cope on all the different terrain our hacking throws at us and stupidly instead of getting him boots I put shoes back on his fronts (kicking myself for it now but at the time it was the option I had!) This year will be different and I will not weaken and if he really cant do it then he will have boots. My mare I got in December and apparently she had been BF until they decided to sell her when she was shod. First cycle with me her backs came off and I think she will be one of those who will take straight back to being BF (dads a big traditional gypsy cob and she has great feet) but again if not then boots for her as well.

I really am done with this whole shoeing malarky. Feeling the warmth and blood and seeing the life come back into my 'lifetime shod' boy's feet was awesome ... and totally heartbreaking watching the shoes go back on and him wincing when the nails went in! Personally OP I say try without over winter but work inhand over lots of terrain because its the stimulation that gets the foot working. Its no good taking shoes off and sticking them in the field and then expect them to grow good strong rock crunching feet, you have to put the effort in. Good luck
 
You'll be amazed how feet "spring back" to what they need to be when the restrictions of a shoe are removed. The winter might be all that's needed to breath life back into collapsed heels and beef up a withered frog. Just because tbs have notoriously bad feet, it has nothing to do with genetics, in fact the best rehabs I've seen were tb, it's to do with how early the shoeing cycle started to how stunted the feet become.

With decent highly bioavailable nutrients, a good source of amino acids and space for the horse to grow the foot it needs, you will be looking at different hoof shapes come the spring.

I think sometimes when you don't have the voices of support you need, it's hard to make a leap into the "unknown"... believe me and the many here, who say it is not unknown! It is WELL known, it's just that some people choose not to know it and hard to find those that do. Especially in "traditional" circles who seem to think people who leave horses unshod are part of some sort of shamanic tribe :D.

Exactly how I feel and I just looked at like I'm slightly deranged to suggest shoes off (vet more than farrier). My OH was holding her when she was shod last time as farrier brought help to trim the others and the help told my OH that she had the worst kind of feet to get right. It feels like theyre on the defensive rather than look forward.

My other two are bare but not ridden, one in particular has feet lovely feetl and I'm sure could cope with anything. I need to look to them for inspiration not the naysayers!!
 
With my horse I've been banging on to usual farrier that I wasn't happy with the balance of the feet. I did take the shoes off but he's such a destructive eejit that he will be hard to get the fronts bare. I'm considering selling him next year so I decided this is the way to go for now and it appears to be working. If I was keeping long term I would be taking a different approach.

So fronts still on? I'm dreading the chunks that will come off up to nail holes but hope after that she won't do any more damage after that. Mine can be lively turned out, though I'm hoping she will be careful!
 
I shoe fronts only every six weeks BUT now my horses are at home and this being my second winter, the shoes will be coming off at the end of October for a winter break due to the lack of daylight to ride in due to work commitments. I will however be using this BF period to crack on and BF rehab them.

I transitioned my ISH last year/ winter to BF. Frustratingly come this spring he still wasnt quiet able to cope on all the different terrain our hacking throws at us and stupidly instead of getting him boots I put shoes back on his fronts (kicking myself for it now but at the time it was the option I had!) This year will be different and I will not weaken and if he really cant do it then he will have boots. My mare I got in December and apparently she had been BF until they decided to sell her when she was shod. First cycle with me her backs came off and I think she will be one of those who will take straight back to being BF (dads a big traditional gypsy cob and she has great feet) but again if not then boots for her as well.

I really am done with this whole shoeing malarky. Feeling the warmth and blood and seeing the life come back into my 'lifetime shod' boy's feet was awesome ... and totally heartbreaking watching the shoes go back on and him wincing when the nails went in! Personally OP I say try without over winter but work inhand over lots of terrain because its the stimulation that gets the foot working. Its no good taking shoes off and sticking them in the field and then expect them to grow good strong rock crunching feet, you have to put the effort in. Good luck

Thanks - we are on the same timescales then as hers will be off on the 27th (farrier booked). He's coming today and like you I don't like seeing her uncomfortable being shod. She's 100% after but it just feels wrong at this stage with her then getting less sparky to ride before she's reshod. When this all kicked off I'd only had her 6 weeks so just needed to get to know her ridden and at least try different shoes with more support. It's almost 6 months now and I know her well enough that a break from riding (if required) will be fine, she's toughened up a bit from being out 24/7 (she was stabled at least overnight) and is now out with my other two etc and ground will be more forgiving (and grass less lush). I will ride a lot less due to light but high viz and some lights and in hand walks will be doable (we can get to a very quiet road through a field).

Be good to hear how you get on. I will be camera and notebook at the ready!!
 
Exactly how I feel and I just looked at like I'm slightly deranged to suggest shoes off (vet more than farrier). My OH was holding her when she was shod last time as farrier brought help to trim the others and the help told my OH that she had the worst kind of feet to get right. It feels like theyre on the defensive rather than look forward.

My other two are bare but not ridden, one in particular has feet lovely feetl and I'm sure could cope with anything. I need to look to them for inspiration not the naysayers!!

Yes the worst to get right in shoes.... of course - it's true! It could be done with very short shoeing cycles over a few years... but the digital cushion would still be weak. A horse could do it itself, with no shoes on in a matter of months.

I have no idea why farriers and vets won't let themselves look at the evidence - there's a real misconstrued belief it'll cost them in the end. The reality is also be that it doesn't suit all horses and all owners and that is a fact. So I understand the caution. Personally, if I were a farrier, I would be embracing the whole thing and making sure I was ahead of the game. If I were a vet I would be pioneering such a non-invasive technique that promotes self-healing rather than prescribing Bute ad steroid injections. I could make more profit selling boots and pads! I dunno - the world is just constantly looking for enemies rather than friends. Don't be disheartened though.... there ARE vets who are open minded and confident, farriers who ARE clever and care. Theres more qualified trimmers in UK. The who "barefoot thing" was "started" by vets and farriers in the US but in the early days, mistakes were made so I guess people hold on to those things.

If you want inspiration, we are here! Have a look on Rockley Rehab, look up EPAUK and check out the websites of the UK professional trimmers and what kind of performance the horses they trim/look after.

p.s. just so you know I was definitely a "shoe it" kind of person 10 years ago - look at me now :D
 
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I think most horses are fine with sometimes being shod, sometimes barefoot (and for me, thats by a barefoot trimmer and not just trimmed by a farrier). My horses are all barefoot by a trimmer by default unless I feel whoever Im riding and competing specifically needs shoes. For example, for the past 2 summers I have had my mare shod by a farrier but only for those months when I was eventing and needed the extra grip of studs. As soon as the last ODE happened, farrier took shoes off and I went back to barefoot trimmer all autumn/winter/half spring. Ive done this with several of mine and they all adapt very well. Of course, my farrier slags off what my barefoot trimmer has done every time he takes over, many of them seem to be very bitter and easily offended if you have any opinion of your own horses feet but I can see that my horses prefer being barefoot which is enough for me to know my barefoot trimmer is doing a good job. I think too many people seem to think you have to be one OR the other permanently and that you cant change sometimes when IMO you can.
 
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Yes the worst to get right in shoes.... of course - it's true! It could be done with very short shoeing cycles over a few years... but the digital cushion would still be weak. A horse could do it itself, with no shoes on in a matter of months.

I have no idea why farriers and vets won't let themselves look at the evidence - there's a real misconstrued belief it'll cost them in the end. The reality is also be that it doesn't suit all horses and all owners and that is a fact. So I understand the caution. Personally, if I were a farrier, I would be embracing the whole thing and making sure I was ahead of the game. If I were a vet I would be pioneering such a non-invasive technique that promotes self-healing rather than prescribing Bute ad steroid injections. I could make more profit selling boots and pads! I dunno - the world is just constantly looking for enemies rather than friends. Don't be disheartened though.... there ARE vets who are open minded and confident, farriers who ARE clever and care. Theres more qualified trimmers in UK. The who "barefoot thing" was "started" by vets and farriers in the US but in the early days, mistakes were made so I guess people hold on to those things.

If you want inspiration, we are here! Have a look on Rockley Rehab, look up EPAUK and check out the websites of the UK professional trimmers and what kind of performance the horses they trim/look after.

p.s. just so you know I was definitely a "shoe it" kind of person 10 years ago - look at me now :D

Farrier has just been - feel loads better after that as 1) her feet are already improving. Better heel and she actually has some growth (and was visibly less bothered being shod); and 2) even better he wasn't only ok with taking shoes off at next cycle he thought it was the best idea. He thinks she's improving (and it was good to see that so early in ownership) but said he's always going to struggle with nails etc and he doesn't want her in eggbars long term (this is her third set). He's got lots of clients who do it successfully. So farrier supportive - 27th October she goes BF.
 
I think most horses are fine with sometimes being shod, sometimes barefoot (and for me, thats by a barefoot trimmer and not just trimmed by a farrier). My horses are all barefoot by a trimmer by default unless I feel whoever Im riding and competing specifically needs shoes. For example, for the past 2 summers I have had my mare shod by a farrier but only for those months when I was eventing and needed the extra grip of studs. As soon as the last ODE happened, farrier took shoes off and I went back to barefoot trimmer all autumn/winter/half spring. Ive done this with several of mine and they all adapt very well. Of course, my farrier slags off what my barefoot trimmer has done every time he takes over, many of them seem to be very bitter and easily offended if you have any opinion of your own horses feet but I can see that my horses prefer being barefoot which is enough for me to know my barefoot trimmer is doing a good job. I think too many people seem to think you have to be one OR the other permanently and that you cant change sometimes when IMO you can.

Thanks and this is exactly what my farrier said - reckons we should go BF, get rid of the nail holes, work in the balance etc and then decide in Spring, with workload etc and how she is what we do and that that can become a cycle. I'm just pleased he was supportive of the plans!
 
I think most horses are fine with sometimes being shod, sometimes barefoot (and for me, thats by a barefoot trimmer and not just trimmed by a farrier). My horses are all barefoot by a trimmer by default unless I feel whoever Im riding and competing specifically needs shoes. For example, for the past 2 summers I have had my mare shod by a farrier but only for those months when I was eventing and needed the extra grip of studs. As soon as the last ODE happened, farrier took shoes off and I went back to barefoot trimmer all autumn/winter/half spring. Ive done this with several of mine and they all adapt very well. Of course, my farrier slags off what my barefoot trimmer has done every time he takes over, many of them seem to be very bitter and easily offended if you have any opinion of your own horses feet but I can see that my horses prefer being barefoot which is enough for me to know my barefoot trimmer is doing a good job. I think too many people seem to think you have to be one OR the other permanently and that you cant change sometimes when IMO you can.

Well said.
 
Are yours still worked when unshod and do they transition well?

yes they do hacking at the weekends and my days off. I find one struggles with stones combined with a probable grass sensitivity once we get into spring/summer so I struggle to manage her without shoes as I cannot work her enough to keep her slim.
one doesn't grip on grass when jumping so I shoe her once we are fit enough to be doing decent jumping.

in terms of transitioning, I find they vary..i usually take the shoes off and go on holiday for 2 weeks and they are absolute fine on the soft ground right away. I use hoof boots on the stones.
 
I've read this with interest and just wondered whether you think any horse could cope barefoot? And if so, how you transition them without turning them away for a period of time? My boy is 20yo, he has naturally quite crumbly, poor feet, but they're looking ok at the moment with his TopSpec balancer (although still not as strong as I'd like). He has been diagnosed with arthritis and I'd like him to be moving as naturally as possible - but I don't want to turn him away in the fear that he'd become stiffer and not be able to be ridden when I try to bring him back. The vet has advised that I ride him as often as I can to keep him mobile, but I mostly walk him on long slow hacks. Sorry to hijack, but it's been a really interesting read and has got me thinking! :)
 
I think nearly all horses can be BF in the right set up. Some horses and some set ups will make it harder. However some horses will step out of shoes and never look back. I've taken loads BF now. Only had one failure which is the one I mentioned but he's bare behind at the moment and I'm stepping up the work so we will see. He digs holes and kicks walls which is a bit problematic to getting him bare in front. Otherwise I've got mainly natives and a couple of sports ponies in hard work and self trimming with really no issues.

I find it a lot easier than shoes myself!
 
I've read this with interest and just wondered whether you think any horse could cope barefoot? And if so, how you transition them without turning them away for a period of time?

I think any sound, healthy horse can cope barefoot providing the work is regular and built up gradually, and depending on the work they are doing (e.g. if jumping they may need shoes for studs). Some are more sensitive than others to things like mineral intake, amount of movement, type of surfaces they live on, sugar intake etc, and the trickier ones can require specific management to make it work - though on the plus side that management is healthier for them long term. Horses with very compromised hooves may not be able to go barefoot, though lots can with careful rehab and again they might be the ones that need it most. Some health conditions, particularly metabolic issues (cushings, EMS) can also make it very difficult, and they often need to be in work for their health so it can be better to shoe so they can be worked. These days there are also lots of boot options, though some horses are more difficult to fit than others due to hoof shape and the way they move (my cob has a tendency to flick off some boots as he dishes) and boots don't suit every combination as you do need to put them on and off (not great if you've a bad back).

Transitioning doesn't require turning away, unless you have a track system or can turn out on a large area with poor grazing, dry ground and lots of different surfaces then you are probably better off keeping them in work even if it has to be in-hand to begin with. Hooves need simulation to grow well. Ideally a mixture of bare work on good surfaces (e.g. clean tarmac) where they are comfy and booted work to do more, assuming he's not one that can step right out of shoes and barely notice.
 
I've read this with interest and just wondered whether you think any horse could cope barefoot? And if so, how you transition them without turning them away for a period of time? My boy is 20yo, he has naturally quite crumbly, poor feet, but they're looking ok at the moment with his TopSpec balancer (although still not as strong as I'd like). He has been diagnosed with arthritis and I'd like him to be moving as naturally as possible - but I don't want to turn him away in the fear that he'd become stiffer and not be able to be ridden when I try to bring him back. The vet has advised that I ride him as often as I can to keep him mobile, but I mostly walk him on long slow hacks. Sorry to hijack, but it's been a really interesting read and has got me thinking! :)

Optimise the diet - Topspec has molasses in and so isn't the best feed or supplement. Use hoof boots too to aid transition.
 
Sounds like you have a plan OP :)

Miniscam my lad went bare at 19 (he was lame and it was that or retiring so ;) ). I'm pleased he is bare now as he is a bit athriticy. You don't need to turn away but you do need to keep them to a level they can cope with/boot. They can get a bit stiffer muscularly while transitioning so regular physio/bodywork is generally a must.

I too would sack off the topspec for something better (equimins adv. complete, pro_earth pro hoof, forageplus, equivita and micronised linseed)
 
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