how often would you have teeth done?

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Firefly9410

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I have spoken to a vet practice dentist who favours power rasps because apparently manual rasps do not allow the very back teeth to be done easily or properly. First time I have heard this. She sedates intravenously as routine for the work, despite showing me on her skin how the manual rasp leaves a mark but the electrical rasp does not, so the horse would be less likely to be hurt by fidgeting? This makes me think sedation is for vets benefit not horses? Years ago I was told sedation is best avoided unless the bad behaviour was severe, to enable the horse to get used to the procedure of tooth rasping so they would not need sedating every time. IME they do becoming less fidgety and anxious each time. I was also told this time that horses with wave mouths, which are some teeth growing higher on bottom and lower on top and vice versa, should be corrected in a young horse by power rasping the highest bits flat every 3-4 months. The whole thing costs 100 a time whereas previously I have paid aprox 35 for manual rasping without sedation annually. What does everyone think of all this? Medical progress? An attempt to fleece me? Something else?
 
Vets do seem to sedate as a matter of course. Edt dentists don't.

My edt is fabulous and never sedate any horses

As for how often it depends on the horse some every 6 months, others are 10-12 Months
 
I've rasped teeth and can confirm the very back teeth as hard to reach fully with a manual rasp because there is a) very little space behind to push a d pull and b) the arcade curves up a little, making them hard to reach. The small head of an electric rasp is far easier. However a long line of sharp edges are easier to remove with a manual rasp.

Doing a proper dental without sedation is possible but needs the horse to stand quietly and still. Some do but most fling their head about, fidget and are a danger to their handler with the gag on their face (think broken cheek bones when they smack people across the face in agitation! ). It's also a tight and fiddly space to work in and made 10 times harder if they're fidgetting, even if you're really competent. You need to be able to feel and look in their mouth to do a decent job.

EDT are not allowed to sedate, which is why they don't, not because it doesn't makes the job so much easier! !

Wave mouth is just that: instead of the arcade being a smooth flat line, it waves up and down. It does indeed need corrected asap, otherwise it just gets worse with age, and requires quite a lot of rasping to achieve. Too much for manual rasping really.
Wave mouth is a young horse is fairly uncommon though? It's generally an elderly horse thing. If in doubt get a second opinion?
 
Mine only uses a power tool for specific and large jobs. He did my boy's canine teeth not long after I first had him (nearly 10 years ago) and he was sedated with sedaline for this. We have annual checks and he uses hand tools with no sedation. My boy who can be a bit of a git - nothing nasty just unco-operative about the tiniest of things is putty in his hands. This year he didn't need doing at all (He's 19 so dentist likes to as little as possible) so he didn't charge me anything, although he was doing 4 others on the yard too so his fuel was covered.

Mine has a very straightforward mouth though, it sounds like yours might be a bit more complicated?
 
Firefly9410 said:
I have spoken to a vet practice dentist who favours power rasps because apparently manual rasps do not allow the very back teeth to be done easily or properly. First time I have heard this. She sedates intravenously as routine for the work, despite showing me on her skin how the manual rasp leaves a mark but the electrical rasp does not, so the horse would be less likely to be hurt by fidgeting? This makes me think sedation is for vets benefit not horses? Years ago I was told sedation is best avoided unless the bad behaviour was severe, to enable the horse to get used to the procedure of tooth rasping so they would not need sedating every time. IME they do becoming less fidgety and anxious each time. I was also told this time that horses with wave mouths, which are some teeth growing higher on bottom and lower on top and vice versa, should be corrected in a young horse by power rasping the highest bits flat every 3-4 months. The whole thing costs 100 a time whereas previously I have paid aprox 35 for manual rasping without sedation annually. What does everyone think of all this? Medical progress? An attempt to fleece me? Something else?
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MY EDT never has sedate any horse

our appointments depends on the individual. Usually 6 months or a year.
 
soulfull said:
Vets do seem to sedate as a matter of course.
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They never used to. Perhaps it is a health and safety thing. It obviously does make the job easier for them I can see that.

Kallibear I had forgotten the bit at the back curves up. It is an oldie with the wave mouth which to my eye does not look too bad and everyone else has always said the mouth is good. The vet dentist has not seen the youngster yet but I had plans to get the teeth done every 2yrs same as the oldie, since they were checked in autumn by a normal vet and said to have nothing to worry about and I know it is nearly 2yrs since teeth were last done. Four times a year seemed excessive regardless of what problem a horse may have and had me wondering is this for real or do I look gullible? I do not begrudge a power rasp if it is needed but I am not a fan of wasting money.
 
I asked my previous vet about sedating for teeth. He said he always does it because it's quicker and easier than having a horse fidget, and he would sedate in every case unless the horse was practically a zombie.
 
I wonder if the quarterly visit is just to correct the wave mouth? It'd take regular visits to sort but can't be done all in on go. Then back to yearly checks?

Regardless you will absolutely need sedation for the work required to correct wave mouth.

Sorry, I thought it was a young horse with wave mouth. An oldie makes more sense! Personally I wouldn't do anything intensive with an elderly horse because a) they've not got much tooth length left to play with! and b) they're more likely to die before a mild wave mouth becomes more severe

2 yearly is not often enough for most horses unless they have almost perfect teeth. The average horse gets spikes within the year. Problem teeth need done every 6 months.
 
chestnut cob said:
I asked my previous vet about sedating for teeth. He said he always does it because it's quicker and easier than having a horse fidget, and he would sedate in every case unless the horse was practically a zombie.
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I suppose it is this thought that makes me uncomfortable. The horse is not particularly difficult and has never been sedated before. It feels unnecessary, though it seemed to do no harm. I imagine the vet is happy to have the job done quicker and be able to charge more too. My vets are usually good though and not in the habit of charging for every tiny thing just because they can.
 
Firefly9410 said:
I have spoken to a vet practice dentist who favours power rasps because apparently manual rasps do not allow the very back teeth to be done easily or properly. First time I have heard this. She sedates intravenously as routine for the work, despite showing me on her skin how the manual rasp leaves a mark but the electrical rasp does not, so the horse would be less likely to be hurt by fidgeting? This makes me think sedation is for vets benefit not horses? Years ago I was told sedation is best avoided unless the bad behaviour was severe, to enable the horse to get used to the procedure of tooth rasping so they would not need sedating every time. IME they do becoming less fidgety and anxious each time. I was also told this time that horses with wave mouths, which are some teeth growing higher on bottom and lower on top and vice versa, should be corrected in a young horse by power rasping the highest bits flat every 3-4 months. The whole thing costs 100 a time whereas previously I have paid aprox 35 for manual rasping without sedation annually. What does everyone think of all this? Medical progress? An attempt to fleece me? Something else?
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This is exactly why I will never let a vet do teeth without being advised by my EDT...
 
I have my horses teeth done by a specialist vet and this is because i had previously used EDT's who despite always being recommended by everyone in the area - hadn't been doing a good job so i got this guy in to assess the damage and what we found wasn't pretty! he sedates everything and does a seriously thorough job, having seen it be done this well there is no way EDT's can do as good a job without sedating the animal no matter how well behaved it is. For one, whilst the animal is un-sedated there is no way you can get to the very back teeth because the jaw is too tense the sedation also acts as a muscle relaxant allowing you to get to the very back of the teeth and to manually asses the movement of the jaw without restriction. For this particular horse especially i couldn't go back to an EDT and unsedated.
 
My EDT used a power rasp for some jobs, the back teeth I guess, and did have to sedate (with sedalin from my vet) the first couple of times. My horse is generally good but gets bargy when stressed with a tendency to just push his way through anything in front of him and he explained that this is very dangerous with the power rasp, both for the people and the horse. Once the horse was used to the power rasp he didn't need sedating any more. I assume the increase in the use of sedation is due to the increase in the use of power rasps.

I have always been told annual checkup, or six monthly if difficult teeth (oldie, tooth missing, parrot mouth etc.). Was the 3-4 months just for correcting a wave mouth maybe?
 
Kallibear said:
I wonder if the quarterly visit is just to correct the wave mouth? It'd take regular visits to sort but can't be done all in on go. Then back to yearly checks?

Regardless you will absolutely need sedation for the work required to correct wave mouth.

Sorry, I thought it was a young horse with wave mouth. An oldie makes more sense! Personally I wouldn't do anything intensive with an elderly horse because a) they've not got much tooth length left to play with! and b) they're more likely to die before a mild wave mouth becomes more severe

2 yearly is not often enough for most horses unless they have almost perfect teeth. The average horse gets spikes within the year. Problem teeth need done every 6 months.
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Yes sorry it is a confusing situation. The oldie has a wave mouth that was at first not going to be corrected except vet dentist told me after she was finished that she had corrected it a bit. So she must have changed her mind at some point. 2yrs ago the oldie was said to have a good mouth hardly any wave. The recent vet dentist did say he has the mouth of a horse 6yrs younger and had no soft tissue damage from sharp edges, in the same breath as inferring the mouth was bad and needed power rasping anually. So confusing! I initially had the teeth checked annually from a baby but they only needed doing every 2yrs so the inbetween visit was a waste of money just to be told no work needed.

The wave mouth in the youngster potentially needing 4 visits a year was a hypothetical situation. This vet dentist has not seen the youngster.Again I know for a fact the horse has not had dental work for 2yrs at least and yet when checked late autumn by a normal vet I was told no work needed this time, maybe next autumn, just starting with sharp edges but nothing to worry about. Hence why I was planning 2 yearly rasping for the future of this horse too.

I accept annually may be necessary for some and problem mouths more often but the amount of horses having routine dentistry at 6 monthly invervals I am sceptical if they all need it. And 4 monthly triggered my bull poo radar! Which is why I wondered if I had missed something in medical advancement. I wonder if there is a difference of opinion between old school vets and dentistry ones or if dentistry vets are over zealous about it all because it is their favourite subject?
 
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I prefer an EDT with power tools. Vets are not all good at rasping, it is a skilled job. I have never needed to sedate a horse by injection, to me this is the last resort. I might give a bit of Sedolin if horse is hyper or it is first time., but a lot depends on the skill of the operator, I have had two vets who were useless, one who was OK, and one EDT who was excellent, same horse.
No vet who decided to inject before seeing my horse would be allowed to rasp.
We used to do 60 racehorses horses in a week, none of them were sedated by injection. I am not saying the rasping was perfect, it was more a check, they should all be done properly out of the training season by an EDT.
 
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My EDT is also a vet. (Rob Pascoe at Bel Equine) My 15 year old TB has developed wave mouth over last year. Rob does him every 6 months with manual tools and never sedates. My old EDT who has had to stop working due to ill health also never sedated nor did he use power tools.

Rob is tall which helps in both vision and reach.
 
My EDT wouldn't dream of sedating a horse. He is very calm and professional and doesn't even really like the owner holding the horse, preferring to hold it loosely himself, and normally does it whilst I am at work, helping himself to my horse like my farrier or on the odd occasion my vet too. He ALWAYS uses a gag, but he does use the electric power rasp which I was surprised about because last time I'd seen him it was all the usual equipment he'd always used. He left something behind in my stable (can't remember what the hell it was now but it was obvious that some form of electrical equipment had been used on my horse) and I rang him up to ask what had gone on and then he explained about the electrical stuff. I was surprised my horse had tolerated it so well, but then he is pretty easy going.

I'd never have my horses teeth done by the vet again. This is why I ended up using my current EDT to soak up the mess my vet had made when he walked out halfway through the job as my horse was according to witnesses 'lifting his head too high and being awkward'. The horse ended up with half a mouth done (one side only) and after a few weeks the poor animal started eating funny, the one night he kept quidding like crazy, and rolling his jaw around like a blooming camel, and when I asked people what had happened when the vet came they told me! Fortunately my EDT came out the next day (so good of him) and I have used him ever since. He has never had a problem with my horse.
 
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I will only use a specially trained vet .
We do them every six months .
J is seen five or so times a year as he has had a major issue with his mouth which is an on going issue .
I prefer the horses sedated it's safer for the staff when gags are being used and it's better for getting hooks off the back teeth which is difficult properly to do without sedation.
I had one bad and one disastrous experience with EDT's I will never ever allow one on my yard again.
 
Having used a number of "horse dentists" over the years, all recommended by people I trust, i now use a specialist vet. The first time he did my horses teeth he asked me to feel the back teeth of both horses and it was very clear that I'd not been getting a thorough job. He sedates only if it's necessary to do a proper job, my new horse is fine without sedation. I also take his advice regarding frequency. I would never go back to using an EDT. Yes, it costs a bit more money but I am absolutely confident that it's being done properly and that the horse is comfortable.
 
My mare has to be sedated to have teeth done, domosedan gel does the trick just about. EDT does them, and she has to be done 6 monthly as has one side tending towards shear mouth.

The 4 year old is also done 6 monthly due to age, but doesn't have to be sedated.

The EDT uses power rasp on both.
 
The frequency of appointments will depend on the horse, how it wears it's teeth and if there are any problems so very much an individual thing.

Power tools versus manual rasps is an ongoing debate however it is interesting to note that the BEVA/BVDA exam is undertaken using power tools - also this exam exam is sat by both vets and EDTs. Power tools do less tissue damage than manual ones as demonstrated by running them on your arm.

Some vets will have specialist dental training others won't, some EDTs are well trained and qualified, others aren't. Vets are unlikely to do as many dental cases as an EDT who is doing them day in, day out.

Sedation has it's place when doing teeth but isn't always necessary, it's use should be agreed with the owner. EDT's can't sedate legally but many vets are happy to sedate for BEVA qualified EDTs, depending on your vet is doesn't always work out more expensive to do it this way as EDT's rates are generally cheaper than vets.

I would expect caution to be exercised with an older horse, as they get older their teeth begin to expire so over rasping should be avoided; often power tools are better to use as they have less "drag" across the tooth than manual tools have so won't contribute to loosening older teeth.

One of my personal bugbears is lumping all EDTs together. There is a massive difference between an EDT who has done a short course of a few weeks and one who has trained to do the BEVA/BVDA exam which requires the submission of 300 case studies including a minimum of 40 advanced cases, references and evidence of training before sitting the theory exam which, if passed, allows them to sit the practical exam. Once qualified, in order to remain an member of the BAEDT CPD must be regularly undertaken. In the same way that you would choose a vet, you should choose your EDT looking for someone with a quiet, calm manner that reassures a nervous horse and knows when it's in the horse's best interest to sedate and when work can be done without. I know of times when an owner has been moved to tears when with, correct, quiet handling, their horse has had their teeth done without sedation.

OP, it sounds to me as though you are unsure of proceeding with what your vet recomends, perhaps if possible, a second opinion would help you decide one way or the other?
 
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My vet wanted to put my oldie (29) under sedation at their clinic and pull a tooth as well as electric rasping. Had the dentist out for second opinion, he advised not to take tooth out and manually rasped at our yard. Wont use a vet for dentistry now. Mine are seen every 6 months
 
My vet recommended I use an EDT as a general horse vet just does not have the same amount of training / time spent on teeth as a properly qualified EDT (eventingmum got the description spot on).

I use a properly qualified EDT (who is also an examiner for EDTs) - not just some random 'horse dentist' - he always uses power tools but is also a good old fashioned 'horseman'. He also prefers to handle the horse himself and is very good with them.
 
Thanks so much for all this info everyone. It has answered some of my questions and given me things to think about. I am sorry so many of you have had a bad experience with whoever did your horses teeth. My oldie has definitely been done well in the past, no major problems were present and I watched it being done this time so I know it was done properly this time too. I think it will be very interesting to see which vet gets sent out for the youngsters teeth and vaccinations next autumn and what they say.
 
Vet, insisted on sedation due to a small amount of fidgeting, EDT did not. He had experience working on racehorses & his manner with my mare was wonderful to watch.
 
Firefly9410 said:
I have spoken to a vet practice dentist who favours power rasps because apparently manual rasps do not allow the very back teeth to be done easily or properly. First time I have heard this. She sedates intravenously as routine for the work, despite showing me on her skin how the manual rasp leaves a mark but the electrical rasp does not, so the horse would be less likely to be hurt by fidgeting? This makes me think sedation is for vets benefit not horses? Years ago I was told sedation is best avoided unless the bad behaviour was severe, to enable the horse to get used to the procedure of tooth rasping so they would not need sedating every time. IME they do becoming less fidgety and anxious each time. I was also told this time that horses with wave mouths, which are some teeth growing higher on bottom and lower on top and vice versa, should be corrected in a young horse by power rasping the highest bits flat every 3-4 months. The whole thing costs 100 a time whereas previously I have paid aprox 35 for manual rasping without sedation annually. What does everyone think of all this? Medical progress? An attempt to fleece me? Something else?
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Stick with and EDT, they are much better trained to be dealing with the horses mouth than a vet. My EDT very rarely uses power tools as he says he gets a better feel of the mouth with hand tools so is less likely to make a mistake and its far less stressful for the horse.
 
My EDT is amazing, having a dentist phobic 17 2hh TB, he suggested sedation as the Tb (20+) has a wave, which given his age will never be sorted, anyway vet and EDT arrived, 3 injections later, the TB is still resisting, ended up going down, trapping the vets legs in the process, they had to use hay bales to keep him on his chest, his teeth were done but both experts agreed this horse has had a horrific experience in the past with his teeth, both horse and vet ended up battered and bruised, I'd choose an EDT every time
 
The vet did our 6 with the dremel & hand rasp back in Jan. and all were done without sedation, despite 2 rearing & being silly.
Ours are done every 6 - 12 months, it depends on the horse.
 
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