How old is old?

[minkymoo]

Ok, So I have just read a post about someones new horse (congrats Paintedlucky!) who is 19. (Disclaimer! This in no way a criticism AT ALL of the age of this horse!!)

I would like to know however why a horse is 10 + it is considered too old, when on average most horses live to their 30's. I have found recently that the age of horses getting backed and ridden in general is getting younger, with some horses (mainly in the US TBH) getting ridden at 1.5 or 2 years old.

When I was younger I was always under the impression that alot of horses in careers such as the Spanish Riding School or the Police were always older due to their training taking longer and being strung out over time. This doesn't seem to be the case any more.

Just wondering what other peoples thoughts were on this really...

 

[kerilli]

on average, very few horses live to their 30s, tbh. late twenties is fairly unusual. fwiw i've had 5 of my horses to the end of their days, spoilt and no expense spared, and only 2 made it to mid-20s.
i agree that breaking and early work is being done much too soon with a lot of horses. one reason for the rise in popularity of the warmbloods is said to be that they mature quicker than irishxtbs, both mentally and physically, so people can make money on them quicker.

10+ isn't too old unless you want to do serious competition, in which case it is really... the horse may already be set in its ways, it has spent too long forming the wrong habits re: balance etc perhaps, and it should already be at a decent level by then. also, injures stack up with age, simple wear and tear, so an 11 yr old is more likely to have a problem than a 6 yr old, stastically, i think.

 

[GinaGem]

I think a lot of horses are called old because they are considered to be out of their prime years and they loose value (not sure why as some older horses to me are worth a lot of money due to their experience!). My girl is 15 but i wouldn't really consider her old but would consider her wise!!!

 

[Tierra]

I'll come out in defense of the "older" horses since nothing annoys me more than seeing people claim anything over 12 is old and if they're over 16 they're virtually dead.

You're certainly correct about the SRS horses working into their 20s. Many they use on tours can be in their late 20s and still enjoying life and working at high school level movements.

Some of it comes down to training - or rather the methods used to train horses. Those classically produced tend to enjoy longer working lives than modern dressage horses produced in a much more hurried manner.

Some of it comes down to care. They're living animals and they're often expected to perform in very demanding sports. As such, they need correct care and attention to help keep them fit and sound. Legs are precious things, you cant replace them so you damn well need to look after them.

Some of it, sadly, comes down to genetic factors and luck. Some horses are conformed in such a way that their joints receive increased wear and tear and degenerative joint problems are more likely to kick in.

Older horses have so much to give and so much they can teach people; particularly more novice riders. However the attraction of a "baby" seems to win many people over.

Sports horses these days are often rushed at far too young an age. Dressage is a classic example of this with 3 year olds being rollkured when they are physically too immature to be capable of whats being asked (remembering many of these are often young warmbloods that dont even stop growing until they are around 6).

Sure, theres an increased chance of problems as animals get older; its the same for us. But equally you find perfectly fit, able healthy 20+ year old horses that would get dismissed for younger models.

Its always been my opinion that the worse thing for an aging horse is to be retired if its still capable of fulfilling any kind of job. So many horses seem to almost give up when they are retired

 

[Madam_max]

Well said, totally agree.

 

[Grey_Arab]

I agree that it's really sad that people right horses off if they're over 16. Given the right care they can carry on for many years (just look at Over to You) given the right care. My boy is 17, nearly 18 and is still going strong, OK he is getting stiffer with these colder mornings, but he really doesn't act like he's the age he is, but he does know how to look after himself and will get himself out of trouble and knows how far he can go messing about before it get's dangerous. I wouldn't swap him for anything!

 

[miller]

Personally I wouldn't go out to purchase anything older than 6yo BUT my current horse was bought as a 4yo and is now 18.

He is still worked at the level he was as an 8 or 9yo, in fact is working better than ever and is certainly not on his last legs.

He has never yet walked out of the box stiff but has never been worked on hard ground and has always been looked after (read mollycoddled!)

I'm leaning heavily on my desk (it's sort of wooden) here

He was the best schoolmaster to my OH to learn how to ride dressage moves on and doesn't suffer fools gladly (OH tells everyone about learning changes on him and trying to lean him into a change - he quite calmly counter cantered an 8m circle! OH did

)


Agree alot of horses are pushed too fast too quick and making money on them is deemed more important than long term soundness which I think is alot of the issue.

Edited to add : my old yard which was a riding school as well as livery has numerous horses in the school still working well into the 20's - one pony must be over 30.

 

[minkymoo]

Tierra, that is basically what I was trying to say but you put it far better than I did!

I just don't understand it, my friends horse is 17 and he is the kindest horse ever, he is however very naughty and acts like a 5 YO!

I think it is now just 'trendy' to have a youngster to bring on and I worry that if a proper job is not done on it then it will be ruined for life.

I don't know, I just think it is silly.

 

[Walder]

I have just bought a 15 year old - a few people said i shouldnt buy one 'that old' - but he is the most lovely gorgeous precious pony (can you tell im in love!!??) and he is just a spritely as i can manage - in fact almost at the edge of my riding capacitly - he feels like a little pocket rocket so im hoping for quite a few good years of fun on him - im so glad i didnt listen to 'some people!!!'

 

[Tierra]

Mines 15; 16 next year.

We bought him as a 12 year old dressage school master and even then, some people said he was "getting on" in years!

He's got completly clean legs, he's been well taken care of and schooled. He's sound and as far as he's concerned, he still thinks hes 4 years old!

Jack is teaching me so so much and i wouldnt swap him for anything either! I do get offended by people calling him old though

p.s. leg wraps seem to be a boon for warding off stiff legs in the colder months

 

[Tierra]

Hahaha, mine tests me all the time also ;p He's a total handful! Im soooo glad i didnt have him as a baby!

He came from my trainer in the UK who had the delight of breaking him and bringing him on. She has a video of him being used as a dressage demo with the Lassetters as a 5 year old. You see two horses walk into the arena... Jack walks in.. takes one look at the crowd and legs it back out of the arena full pelt BACKWARDS. He then spends the next 10 minutes stood at the edge snorting and bucking on the spot before finally deciding he dared to go back in.

He threw my trainer off many, many times (frequently in dressage tests). Theres no way i could have delt with him, I find him difficult enough now and he's meant to be "old"

 

[WelshRareBit]

There is a girl at my yard who, on Sunday took her 20 year old TB to a hunter trial - he certainly still has it.
I totally agree that they seem better when worked even if its just a hack a few times a week.

 

[Tia]

I have to say, it is the total opposite where I live. Older horses are highly valued over here. Their prices are generally greater than a comparable horse of 10 years younger and they are in demand.

Quarter Horses around me are generally backed at 2 years old and they appear to live long and sound lives, often still competing at 25 years old. I once looked at purchasing a schoolmaster team penning horse and they wanted an astronomical amount for her and she was 25 years old and still in good nick.

I have an old 22 year old QH who competed 100 mile long distance rides (and won most of them) right up till he was 19 years old. He now lives a peaceful life with us however he absolutely loves to go out, is impeccably behaved, hasn't shown the slightest signs of arthritis and is a very healthy horse.

I think there are oldies and then there are oldies though. Most of the old ones I see out over here look amazing for their age. BUT I think there is a different market over here, any useless horse tends to end up at the meat market therefore it's rare around my area to see an old horse who isn't sound, fit and ready to go. If it wasn't, it would have been made into a pie many years ago.

 

[Madam_max]

I was discussing this with my friend yesterday, my girl is 15, bit I could sell her now to a teenager or someone who wanted a jumping schoolmistress and she would still have years of competition life in her. She still thinks she's 5 anyway. Unfortunately people would turn there nose up at her.

 

[conniegirl]

Ive got a 17 yearold, and 18 yearold and 2 26 yearolds, as well as one baby at 9 yearsold.

One 26 yearold is still in full work and loveing every minute of it, he throws a temper tantrum worthy of a 2 yearold if you dont take him out on a hack with the younger ones, he stands at the gate and screams his head off, then he kicks the gate until mum eventualy gets sick of him kicking it and brings him into the stables, where he then sulks untill we get back and turns realy realy grumpy unless a saddle and bridle are produced. He has been known to cart off with his rider in the woods to jump a log that his rider didnt want to do. He out gallops the 9 yearold dispite being nearly 3 times his age and 4 hands smaller. and he is the safest most cuddly thing ever. he has never had a day lame in the 10 years ive had him! only had 2 (touch wood) cases of colic in 10 years with him and both because the dosy sod jumped the fence and got onto the dairy cattle grass in the field next door.

the other 26 yearold is retired but doesnt want to be, however at only 12.2hh and an absolute litte s**t to ride, he was retired as soon as we could no longer find a good little rider for him. he's prone to colic but he was prone to colic when he was 9!

My 18 yearold is still winning at county shows (although i do tell porkies about his age if asked by the judge, some of them are so ageist). never been lame or ill in the entire time ive had him

my 17 yearold is unfortunatley semi retired due to a trailer accident.

the 9 yearold on the other hand is far too much like hard work, needs endless schooling (with the older neddys they know thier jobs you dont have to tell them how to do it, just when to do it), has had more time hopping lame then he has sound dispite passing a 5* vetting!

15 is still the prime of thier life, horses have gone round badminton at 18 and won the hickstead derby at 20!!

 

[Blizzard]

Lance is 19 in Feb, and he is going as strong as ever. He is an excellent schoolmaster and can run rings aound many horses half his age!

He has done everything and can still do it, I would rather have a 19 yr old Lance than a horse half his age with half his abiity and personality.

this is him now and i dont think he looks his age, he doesnt get any special diet etc, he doesnt even get hard feed,it really annoys me when people write off or look down on older horses as if they are fit for nothing more than the scrap heap.

Lance can still be a bugger and will take off if he thinks he can get away with it, he has a sarcastic sense of humour, he has seen so much he knows all the tricks!
he is a lot more of a handful than Beau who is a third of his age!

 

[eekmon]

I personally think as a buying prospect ( depending on what you want it for ) Slightly older would be better. Now insurance for veterans has also been extended. My 'old' horse is 30 and is still hacked out about 5 times a week for up to 2 hours and is still a right handful at times! Personally I think horses are living longer now, my vet always tells me to keep mine going as lots of people just 'retire' horses of a certain age and often this is the worst thing they can do. Mine at 30 suffers no stiffness or signs of slowing down, so all the time he is sound and happy I will keep riding him regardless of how 'old' he is

 

[WishfulThinker]

Mines 11 and I worried that folk would think he was past it, but one lady at the yard was like "oh, hes only young!" and she is a proper horsey person.

My first horse was 22!

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

10+ is certainly not too old to do serious competition. Take a look at the majority of horse ages that jumped in the European Championship. Apart from a few most were 16 years of age or more. Look at Glenwood Springs, he's a specialist speed horse & is being jumped again this season by Tim Stockdale & he's 19 years old & still winning major competitions.

People seem obsessed with buying 'A 4 year old & bringing him on'.....& are dismissing horses or 8,9,10 years of age as being too old. I think that this attitude is ridiculous. At 4 years of age the horse isn't fully grown, bones & muscles still growing...why can't people wait a little longer. This is one of the reassons Harvey Smith came out of the sport & why so many horses burn out early

 

[Porkie]

[ QUOTE ]
. Its always been my opinion that the worse thing for an aging horse is to be retired if its still capable of fulfilling any kind of job. So many horses seem to almost give up when they are retired

[/ QUOTE ]

Totally agree! My boy is 26! I took him on loan nearly two years ago when he had no rider and was basically just watching the world go by without him - and I am totally besotted, I love him to bits and wouldn't change him for the world!

He was retired at 22 by his owner basically because he didn't have a rider - but he got 'expelled' from his retirement home for becoming too naughty and bullying the younger ones!! Hehe!!

He obviously hated being retired and wasn't going to stand for it

Unfotunately he did have an accident at 23 where he completely smashed his knee and they thought that was his lot!

but despite the vets saying he would never be ridden again (lucky to survive the 4 ops in 4 days at 23 let alone hope to ride him again they said!!) just 3 months later he was sound as a pound (somehow think he was determined to stay in work regardless!!) and now at 26 I he is back in full (but light) work with me and he is loving it!! The sparkle in his eye has come back and he is enjoying life again. He loves to travel and will plough me down to get into the trailer .......... and we now go out and about with a friend to some local off road riding where there are woods to explore and fields to have a sedate canter round, and he loves it so much I enjoy taking him just to see the look on his face when I get his travel boots out!

I have built up a bond and a trust in him I never thought I would be lucky enough to experience and he has given me so much confidence with my riding that I just can't put it into words!

Yes he does boss me around - and yes because of his age he does know every trick in the book to ie: escape from his stable, escape form his field and keep getting itches to scratch to get out of working, but hey, keeps me on my toes when i turn round and he isn't in his stable!!!

I wouldn't have a youngster, not because I think they're bad or anything but because I'm realistic and I know I'm not experienced enough to handle and train a youngster and it would be a bad situation for both if us!

IMO there is a lot to be said for the older horse, despite the health worries etc. they can still teach you so much and have no less love to give than a youngster. Depends who you are and what your experience is and what you want out of a horse but for me my old boy is perfect! And I enjoy spoiling him rotten and his actual owner is thrilled that he now has his own special person who is there just for him, to take care of him, keep him in work for as long as possible by being paitent and willing to go at his pace and to keep his mind busy, afterall we have discovered he cannot be retired!

Don't give up on them just because they're old - IMO thats when they need you more

When I walk onto the yard and he whinneys at me my heart melts and makes it all worth while

 

[bobz1305]

I bought my mare when she was 15 for a stupidly low price as she had been left in a field due for years after the rider giving up. She is now 19 and is going better than ever and I am convinced she thinks she is getting younger rather than older! I would have no hesitation in buying an 'older' horse again!

 

[Forget_Me_Not]

Because people don't keep horses for ever anymore and they loss value after 12 years. I wouldn't buy a horse over 12 because when I came to sell it a few years later it would be worth half the price I payed.

It is a huge shame because there is some cracking older horses that could show the younger ones how it's done.

 

[Tiggy1]

My niece has a 28 year old mare who his far livelier than my 7 year old.
She is hacked out regularily you just have to remember they like their creature comforts warmth and lots of good food.

 

[Theresa_F]

We took Cairo on permanent loan when he was 17 - he is now 21 and though semi-retired still loves hacking out and a gallop on soft ground.

My first TB was rescued at 22 and still competed at everything and hunted at 29 - she was only PTS as she got kicked and her leg broke. She was never going to retire as she lived for her work.

Miss Delia was on loan to me at 16 and was semi-retired at 23 but until then she was competing and hunting.

I had one WB mare at 5 1/2 and she was a handful and then got Chancer who I bought home at 15 months - but he was not what I intended, just happened.

I would not consider anything under 15 to be old and many that have got to that age sound will stay sound apart from some OAP stiffness to the end.

 

[Tierra]

Agree on the creature comforts

Mine would much sooner by in bed on a wet day than outin the rain. He gets cold very easily (although my trainer insists that he has always been this way) so he's wrapped up in ridiculous rugs.

Its nice to hear the market is somewhat reversed in canada tia! Surely experience should have some kind of value?

 

[vieshot]

My horse is 16 now and still hunts/drifts etc. He raced in a point to point last year.

 

[at work]

...alot of horses in careers such as the Spanish Riding School or the Police were always older due to their training ...

Don't actually know about police horses, they are generally big horses though, so I'd not expect many of them to be sound and working into their 20s.

We visited the SRS the other year and on the guided tour were told that the stallions are retired at 25 at the very latest. That is they normally retire well before that age but a few may carry on. At 25 retirement (back to the stud farm) becomes compulsory because they think it unfair to ask such an old horse to work at that level. So while I think it is true they are fairly long lived and sound, they don't go on performing into late 20s, that's a bit of a myth. As I understood it, very few of the older stallions, past their late teens, are used in performances anyway, they are more likely to be used as schoolmasters for rider training.

Also we watched a schooling session - the young horses were working differently to the older ones, in that they do fewer collected movements and no high school movements (the airs/jumps whatever). You could seee a definite progression in the stages of training but the young horses are still working quite hard and in an outline, from the very start of their training.

 

[minkymoo]

Well, I think this is really nice! and everyones stories are really heartwarming!

Yay to the older horse!!

 

[Tierra]

Hmmm not according to the brochure from the SRS that accompanied their tour in the UK last year. The oldest there was 29 albeit i dont think he did the airs above the ground part of the tour.

And yes, the young horses are worked hard, but they're worked correctly

They arent tied down with hollow backs and unengaged hind quarters and their outlines are more novicey (obviously) than the high school horses.

 

[at work]

....worked hard, but they're worked correctly

I didn't mean to suggest they weren't worked correctly but I do think the idea they are brought on slowly is misunderstood sometimes. They are, but it's very relative to what they will be asked for once they are matured, which is of course much more physically demanding than for the majority of our horses.

When we went round we were definitely told by the guide that they were always retired - I only remember because it surprised me, I had thought that they were kept at the school much longer too.

You might be right but thinking about it, I would find it surprising if a horse of 29 was still being travelled abroad and used for that level of work in public, simply because I'm not sure it would really be fair on the horse. That's very strenuous for such an elderly guy, even a very fit one!