How old is too old?? for a Daf Horsebox

Nativeponies - it weighed 5.8t unlaiden (coachbuilt with proper materials) and I agree with everyone that it is highly unlikely that any 7.5t box with 3 x 16.2hh's in it and full living is going to be under 7.5t with a full tank of fuel and water. Our living is not kitchen cupboards and instead proper small light horsebox versions of a fitted kitchen but despite that I am sure that with 3 big horses it might be over weight...but then any box would be.

With 3 ponies it is fine (as we have done), or with two horses etc but it will be entirely in line with any other non hgv box with more in it. If you want to carry three big horses under weight then you need to ditch the living, water tank etc.

Let me also say that despite the tone of Mike and Nativeponies I am entirely on the side of being under weight and would totally agree that everyone should take care that they are.
 
I didn't have a "tone", I was merely concerned that IF you went off gung-ho and assumed it was underweight, as many do, then it would be a very expensive ride to a Show.
As you have rightly said, there is no way it could be legal with 3 horses on.
 
nativeponies said:
I didn't have a "tone", I was merely concerned that IF you went off gung-ho and assumed it was underweight, as many do, then it would be a very expensive ride to a Show.
As you have rightly said, there is no way it could be legal with 3 horses on.
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Sorry there is no reason why a corectly built 7.5 ton can't have a 2.5 ton payload which should be ok for 3 horses at say 600kg each, people ect... average chassis is about 3000kg leaving 2000kg for body and 2500kg payload....simple
 
perfect11s said:
Sorry there is no reason why a corectly built 7.5 ton can't have a 2.5 ton payload which should be ok for 3 horses at say 600kg each, people ect... average chassis is about 3000kg leaving 2000kg for body and 2500kg payload....simple
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I looked extensively into new builds and second hand boxes before we bought this one and no manufacturer that I could find 6 years ago would claim to be selling a lorry with full living weighing 5t. I would genuinely be interested to see where on the internet this is stated and by which manufacturers as if it is then manufacturing techniques must have come on considerably in the last 6 years. I would have thought that very few boxes over that age would be 5t, too, but again this is only based on my own extensive research.
 
I do think that things have come on a lot weight wise as everyone is 'hot' about it now. I recently sold my 2001 new conversion, it was its unladen weight that sold it. Thats how I advertised it, legal to carry 3 and I got loads of calls. It was 5.3t and that was a very basic wagon, my partitions were steel framed though and it did take 3 of us to move them so more payload could have been gained there by changing them. There is a company, cant remember the name who is making wagons with a different outer to keep weight down and most new boxes now have ali floors.
 
measles said:
I looked extensively into new builds and second hand boxes before we bought this one and no manufacturer that I could find 6 years ago would claim to be selling a lorry with full living weighing 5t. I would genuinely be interested to see where on the internet this is stated and by which manufacturers as if it is then manufacturing techniques must have come on considerably in the last 6 years. I would have thought that very few boxes over that age would be 5t, too, but again this is only based on my own extensive research.
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equitrek , tristar and kevin parker i bellive all have a lorry at around 5000kg unladen...
 
As a licensed aircraft engineer,you may think that I would agree that with modern materials ,boxes can be made light. Perhaps if you have the resources of Boeing,they can ,but otherwise no. They will not last. The alloys used are cheap and nasty,and crack easily . Cheap rivets are used. Repairs are far more difficult. Basicly I dont think these light boxes will last.
 
Interesting thread.
I bought an F reg Daf from a 'reputable dealer' last year as a perfect first time lorry.
After discovering that the body was basically free-floating on the chassis I decided to refurbish.
Well its now an 04 reg newbuild with the only original bit being the rear ramp and the roof crossmembers lol.
What I have learned is this: No older lorry is without its problems be they body work engine prop shaft king pins etc.
It is incredibly difficult to build a lorry to have a payload of 2.5 tonne and believe me I have tried
Horse lorries are the biggest unregulated pool of lorries on the road. Commercial companies have legal obligations to maintain their lorries, we are not as encumbered and VOSA worry about that and with good reason. Very few privately owned lorries meet an acceptable commercial standard. Thats why they focus on us. I have rebuilt my lorry with VOSA guidance and it has been hard but worth it.
At £3 000 you are basically buying a liability be it now or in a year or two. Lorries have a life span.
 
Sorry never put the price of the K reg lorry in, but its much more than £3k, hence me asking how much something of that age should be about. Please dont think I expect to get one for that price, I know I wont unless Im incredibly lucky. I think I have a decent budget but I fancied something older that didnt break the bank as it wont be used as much as it should be so a lot of money stood rotting away :D
 
friend is selling her leyland daf, H reg, has only ever been a horsebox not converted or anything, solid box, less than 100k miles, although it hasnt been used for 2 yrs or more so therefore isnt plated - she wants 2.5k for hers.
 
MilosDad said:
Interesting thread.
I bought an F reg Daf from a 'reputable dealer' last year as a perfect first time lorry.
After discovering that the body was basically free-floating on the chassis I decided to refurbish.
Well its now an 04 reg newbuild with the only original bit being the rear ramp and the roof crossmembers lol.
What I have learned is this: No older lorry is without its problems be they body work engine prop shaft king pins etc.
It is incredibly difficult to build a lorry to have a payload of 2.5 tonne and believe me I have tried
Horse lorries are the biggest unregulated pool of lorries on the road. Commercial companies have legal obligations to maintain their lorries, we are not as encumbered and VOSA worry about that and with good reason. Very few privately owned lorries meet an acceptable commercial standard. Thats why they focus on us. I have rebuilt my lorry with VOSA guidance and it has been hard but worth it.
At £3 000 you are basically buying a liability be it now or in a year or two. Lorries have a life span.
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All very true,but firstly, the design ,lifespan of an old cargo or a Roadrunner,is vastly greater than for example a Eurocargo. It is relatively unimportant to the average commercial operator,that a truck will not last more than six years if he has got 300 K miles out of it in that time.The fact that your shiney new build is on a six year old chassis is not a good thing if the chassis was only designed to last for seven!Older lorrys,given adequate maintenance last for vastly longer. But here lies the problem.adequate maintenance does not mean doing the minimum to get it through a test each year.
 
jessicabeau1 said:
friend is selling her leyland daf, H reg, has only ever been a horsebox not converted or anything, solid box, less than 100k miles, although it hasnt been used for 2 yrs or more so therefore isnt plated - she wants 2.5k for hers.
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Even if it was a lovely well maintained lorry when it was parked up, it wont be now. One of the things that keeps older lorrys going,is oil vapour from the engine slowing corrosion. (A prime reason why modern "clean"trucks fall apart so quickly).The brake callipers are likely to be at least partialy seized.Tyres will be perished.Expect to add £2000 to get it properly back on the road.
 
perfect11s said:
Sorry there is no reason why a corectly built 7.5 ton can't have a 2.5 ton payload which should be ok for 3 horses at say 600kg each, people ect... average chassis is about 3000kg leaving 2000kg for body and 2500kg payload....simple
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I would doubt that very much TBH.
Not with FULL LIVING as the OP has.
My 7.5T Tristar has a payload of 3.1T but I don't have any bells and whistles on it at all. It's just a chassis with a full aluminium body. It easily carries 4 16hh legally.
 
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Lets just dispell a myth here about Aluminium. Sure,it is roughly a third of the weight of steel, but that doesnt save you much if you need a section 3 times the size of steel.
 
We bought a 7.5ton merc in march and its J reg, and was 8.5k (we did have a tack locker put in it though!) it is immaculate and clearly hasnt been used much over the years
We looked at an N reg for 4.5k it had be hammered and was in a hell of a state so i dont think age means anything to be honest!
Also my friends 51 plate has done twice the mileage that mine has done and is half the age!
 
Its a very good point but, fortunately, I have had a chance to thoroughly vet the lorry as a separate entity to the box so I have seen and gone over each component individually and been able to choose my chassis with just those considerations in mind. When you buy the whole item you cant do that and it comes back to your point entirely, adequate maintenance is often not enough
 
If I was buying a lorry I would get inspected by RAC or similar. I know lorries can go on for years, but if something is wrong it can cost an awful lot to put right.

It is true that for years no-one minded about horseboxes much, but the rules and regulations have tightened up considerably now. Note than in adverts people put "stalled for 3" not "will carry 3."

I was at the Royal Welsh show a year or two back and was told that the local Trading Standards had been looking around the lorry park and impounded some lorries and wouldn't let the owners take them on the road again as they were illegal in some respect,probably over weight.
 
If only I could get the damn horse to travel in a trailer, loads fine but cant keep him in one for more than a few minutes. Hubby says sell the horse and buy one that will travel in a trailer :eek:
 
Mike007 said:
Lets just dispell a myth here about Aluminium. Sure,it is roughly a third of the weight of steel, but that doesnt save you much if you need a section 3 times the size of steel.
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im with you on that for some load carriying parts like ramp frame , but replaceing a heavy wood floor with alli planks and alli sheet instead of grp for the body sides and front saves heaps of weight without making the design complicated and ive seen very tidy all alli ramps on some cattle lorrys and they must be strong for the job they do,and lighter than mine which is made from thick section 40mm box with 17 mm phenol ply... aluminum is the way forward.. look at the all alloy horse trailers they have been building for years in the states or the cattle lorrys that get more stick in a week than a horse box in a year...
 
Mike007 said:
As a licensed aircraft engineer,you may think that I would agree that with modern materials ,boxes can be made light. Perhaps if you have the resources of Boeing,they can ,but otherwise no. They will not last. The alloys used are cheap and nasty,and crack easily . Cheap rivets are used. Repairs are far more difficult. Basicly I dont think these light boxes will last.
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total rubbish.... sorry its not hard to work with ally, welding tecnques have advansed and there are lots of bonding sealers that make joints very strong on sheet to frame etc... aluminum is the way forward.. they are making artic trailers chassis and bodys out of ally now, most cattle boxes too...
 
nativeponies said:
I would doubt that very much TBH.
Not with FULL LIVING as the OP has.
My 7.5T Tristar has a payload of 3.1T but I don't have any bells and whistles on it at all. It's just a chassis with a full aluminium body. It easily carries 4 16hh legally.
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5000kg unladen with full living on equitrek,kevin parker heios, tristar and plenty of others..
 
Not a Kevin Parker :eek::eek::D:D Reckon I would get one of them cheap??

On a serious note, my friend was behind one the other day and wasnt impressed, how dare she!! :D:D
 
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