How serious is a toe out conformation in a three year old?

Wagtail

Wagtail

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Gorgeous horse but heels badly underrun and slightly toed out. Lovely paces and I would say perfect conformation apart from that. He's a three year old welsh section D. Barefoot and badly in need of a trim as toes really long. But apparently shoes were put on him to back him which owner had removed once he came back. But never seen such underrun heels in an unshod horse. Took my BF trimmer sister with me and she thinks his feet are saveable but I'm worried about the toed out conformation. Trouble is I really like him and that's his only fault. My head says don't touch him. But I was wondering if anyone else had experience of this fault and as he's so young could it just be his feet causing it and maybe he could recover? I could have the option of LWVTB.
 
Well, although I agree with the 'no point in buying trouble' answers on your previous thread, no horse is perfect and I don't think that a slight toe out, which might be redeemable is too big a compromise - but then I haven't seen the horse.
I would think that it would be worth a vetting, if you like the horse.
 
Wolf went a bit toe out around 2-3. He's half D. My farrier told me to keep the faith, he was just about to have a shoulder expansion which would straighten himself out, and lo and behold he did. He's straight as a die again now.

I would be tempted to have a good look at the parents and siblings, and see if there is any sign of toe out conformation going on into adulthood.
 
Yes, the plan would be to get him on loan and get my sister to see if she could sort out his feet and see if that straightens him out. His conformation really is exceptionally good elsewhere, and in particular his hind legs. They are just amazing. He is evenly marked, very flashy and very sensible. I could get him vetted after we have sorted his feet and before buying.
 
To be on the safe side, I would have the horse vetted before moving it to your yard, you can always have it done again later but just in case anything goes wrong, you will have a benchmark of what the horse was like while with the vendor. Call me cynical if you like.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
To be on the safe side, I would have the horse vetted before moving it to your yard, you can always have it done again later but just in case anything goes wrong, you will have a benchmark of what the horse was like while with the vendor. Call me cynical if you like.
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I agree with this, sounds like you really like him OP I hope it works out for you.
 
I agree with EY - my grey was toe out, but as her shoulders grew and her chest widened, the legs straightened up. Now at 5 years old, she has no sign of ever having been toe out.
 
It all depends on how straight his legs are overall. A lot of youngsters turn toes out because their frame hasn't filled which will mean their elbows are in which in turn makes the toes turn out and as they mature, the legs straighten up and the toes move back to the correct angle. I have a yearling that is doing just this; he moves very well and straight but standing he looks a bit like Charlie Chaplin! My farrier refused to do anything other than trim him correctly and it is working; as he fills out, so they are improving and some people wouldn't notice it at all now. So my advice would be to look at his frame and check how his elbows are too in relation to his toes, are they in or already open as that will have a bearing on his final outcome.

I'm glad you're already looking after your torrid time.
 
better toe out than toe in as the chest expands it pushes the elbows out and straightens the limb conformation. My farrier trimmed my foals feet from day one to bring her toes out
 
Any deviation from straightness in a limb isn't ideal as puts more pressure on the tendons, but I do think they often look a bit mismatched at three and some conformational issues tend to sort themselves out as they grow. If he's very cheap I might take a punt but otherwise I wouldn't buy something with a visible issue, there's enough invisible ones to contend with!!!
 
Thank you. I will have a close look at al the photos and vid and see if I can tell. I think he's certainly worth a second viewing. His shoulders are still very narrow for a section D and I can tell they will widen considerably. Yes, I really like him.
 
One of our geldings had the worst feet, really long toes & underrun heels when we started him as a 5 year old. He has amazing feet now, it only took a few sessions with a decent farrier. I think at that age I would take a punt. As Maesfen says I bet those feet will straighten out, but if not I know a few who have one foot which sticks out a bit and they really seem to be fine.
 
We're all willing that you find the right horse, Wagtail. I can't add any comments about the toe out conformation, as I have no experience of that, but echo the other posters in suggesting that you get him vetted before you bring him home even if is LWVTB.

Hopefully all the vetting will show up is the state of the feet (repairable according to your sister) and maybe the toe out conformation, but no one wants you to fall for a horse that you will have to let go later for soundness reasons.
 
Maesfen said:
It all depends on how straight his legs are overall. A lot of youngsters turn toes out because their frame hasn't filled which will mean their elbows are in which in turn makes the toes turn out and as they mature, the legs straighten up and the toes move back to the correct angle. I have a yearling that is doing just this; he moves very well and straight but standing he looks a bit like Charlie Chaplin! My farrier refused to do anything other than trim him correctly and it is working; as he fills out, so they are improving and some people wouldn't notice it at all now. So my advice would be to look at his frame and check how his elbows are too in relation to his toes, are they in or already open as that will have a bearing on his final outcome.

I'm glad you're already looking after your torrid time.
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Does the horse currently look short of front, 'two legs coming out of one hole'? I find it quite common in young Welshies and as Maesfen states this can result in toes out. I really hope you find the right horse, rarely post on here now but followed the thread about your mare and really felt for you so I really hope you find the right horse for you, you deserve it.
 
Thank you so much everyone. I feel a bit better about it now. I could really picture him doing dressage. Having looked closely at the photos my sister took, it does seem that the legs are straight and that the elbows are turned in. I could see how when the chest widens the legs should straighten. I am hoping he will get a couple of inches taller too as he is still bum high.

I am going to see a mare tomorrow. Less than half the price and five years old. Better to have a look at a few.
 
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A quick update. My sister sent the photos to her equine vet friend and the reply was pretty negative. She said he is turned out from the knee slightly, is long in the pastern (which was the first thing I noticed but ignored because he was so pretty!) which would make getting his heels up and keeping his feet from underrunning a constant battle because of the extra leverage and strain through the pastern. Unless anyone knowledgable in young section D's can tell me that long pasterns are part of their growth pattern, I am going to have to rule him out.

Sadly the mare I saw today had bad sweetitch and was slightly lame on the right hind. I felt terrible telling the seller as she had come up from London especially to meet me (horse is currently on loan). She must think I made it up as no one else there could see it but my sister and me. It was very slight, a case of just holding that leg longer in the air before putting it down and not stepping under so far with it. But I have become super sensitive to unsoundness lately and spotted it in seconds.

I've a feeling this horse search is going to take some time!
 
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