How should I leave yard help!?
- Thread starter Foxtrot Filly
- Start date
ihatework
Well-Known Member
I think you need to be a little careful here and possibly expect a bit of a backlash - depending on what the YO is like.
Whilst I fully agree, that by your accounts the standard of care was not up to scratch and that you should leave asap, if you were on a standard DIY/Part, then I would say leave this weekend, leave a polite letter and hope to get away with not paying additional notice (beyond end Sept), although technically you should pay a full months notice.
However you are on working livery. You have received reduced livery fees in return for the use of your horse in lessons. By removing your horse on Saturday the yard will not have access for pre-booked lessons and will loose revenue. To my mind, they deserve that (!!) but I doubt they will see it that way.
Whilst I fully agree, that by your accounts the standard of care was not up to scratch and that you should leave asap, if you were on a standard DIY/Part, then I would say leave this weekend, leave a polite letter and hope to get away with not paying additional notice (beyond end Sept), although technically you should pay a full months notice.
However you are on working livery. You have received reduced livery fees in return for the use of your horse in lessons. By removing your horse on Saturday the yard will not have access for pre-booked lessons and will loose revenue. To my mind, they deserve that (!!) but I doubt they will see it that way.
Grumpymoo
Well-Known Member
I would go for option one. You need to get your horse out of there asap and safely and make sure you get all of your belongings. You can deal with any drama later - your horse should be the priority 
wench
Well-Known Member
Yes but potential "drama" afterwards could well get out of hand, and create more of a nightmare for the OP.
Honey08
Waffled a lot!
I always think people should think hard about whether they really think there will be drama, or whether they are worrying and building it up in their mind...
The horse's welfare is the main priority, then after that you should be as polite as you can.
The horse's welfare is the main priority, then after that you should be as polite as you can.
wench
Well-Known Member
Whilst the horse is obviously not receiving the level of care that the owner requires, for the sake of keeping everything calm, I believe that the OP should go about it in the most tactful and diplomatic way possible; therefore reducing any potential stress/drama they may incurr.
Christsam
Well-Known Member
I agree with you totally. Another thing that made my mind up (i did know there would be drama whatever and a lot of slagging off afterwards from what ive heard
) was that the YO looked after my horse whilst i was away the week before the major kick off. My horse is a big 3 year old WB and he needed a lot of food back in end Feb/March. I left strict instructions as to what should be fed. When I got back they informed me I am feeding too much and they had used just over a small bale of hay for 7 days and had a feed made up for him which was a fraction of what he normally had. I took his rug off and was apalled. He loses weight very quickly but i was shocked to see his ribs. I know some people may say this could not have happened in a week and i was starting to doubt myself. however, i was then told that my horse was nasty and threatening to kick (he didnt - he just turns his head to the corner if he doesnt like someone) and that they had "sorted him out" I got to his stable and the YO said he would show me what Prince had been like. He went in and prince turned his head towards him and he walloped him on the nose with a short length of broom handle. He then proceeded to take him out of the stable (after I had to catch him) and prince bucked and reared as if his life depended on it. THAT is what made me realise that no matter what drama was going to happen, i had to move him sooner rather than later.
Bikerchickone
Well-Known Member
If it were my horse I have to say I'd have them out of there without a moment's delay, regardless of the situation about livery owed or not, although in my case I'd probably pay the month notice and move instantly anyway, purely because I wouldn't want word getting around that I'd caused problems or left owing money. Not fair I know to pay more than you fairly believe you should however it would soothe any ruffled feathers and you have acted in an exemplary manner despite the treatment you and your horse received. Even horrible yard owners know people. It's not worth the risk of getting a bad name for yourself in my opinion, sorry. Get horse out and pay proper notice. Good luck whatever you do. x
xSugar_and_Spice
Well-Known Member
Leaving and sending a letter after is the least drama. If YO is told, they have the option of -
- stealing OPs tack or equipment or hiding it
- starting an argument with OP
- failing to provide any more care for OPs horse
- blocking the gateway with a vehicle or padlocking gate preventing OP from leaving
- working OPs horse into the ground for the remaining time that they have use of it
- following OP down the road to her new yard so they can continue harassment
Personally, I don't care how small the risk is, I wouldn't be prepared to risk any of this happening. OP has paid to end of month, which is one weeks money for nothing if the horse is gone. I think even that is more than YO deserves. There is unlikely to be any come back from just leaving and if there is OP has grounds for a counter claim. Bottom line, YO has had this horse on working livery for months and has not been providing the agreed standard of care. I dont see how OP owes them anything by way of money/ notice or politeness/decency.
- stealing OPs tack or equipment or hiding it
- starting an argument with OP
- failing to provide any more care for OPs horse
- blocking the gateway with a vehicle or padlocking gate preventing OP from leaving
- working OPs horse into the ground for the remaining time that they have use of it
- following OP down the road to her new yard so they can continue harassment
Personally, I don't care how small the risk is, I wouldn't be prepared to risk any of this happening. OP has paid to end of month, which is one weeks money for nothing if the horse is gone. I think even that is more than YO deserves. There is unlikely to be any come back from just leaving and if there is OP has grounds for a counter claim. Bottom line, YO has had this horse on working livery for months and has not been providing the agreed standard of care. I dont see how OP owes them anything by way of money/ notice or politeness/decency.
FfionWinnie
Well-Known Member
Do you have receipts for what you have paid or proof via cheque or bank account DD/SO.
I'd just go myself but make sure there is no way they can hound you for something you do not owe. Then send them a concise letter detailing why you have left.
I'd just go myself but make sure there is no way they can hound you for something you do not owe. Then send them a concise letter detailing why you have left.
Mearas
Well-Known Member
I really feel that you need some professional advice on this. I would opt for option 1as in a similar situation myself and not wishing to worry you it ended in a legal battle that cost me several thousands of pounds. Please move your horse and tack asap. Some owners still think that they can keep your horse as security (lien) although this is illegal it still took several weeks of lawyers letters to get my horses back and much heart ache wondering if they were OK. Although you say you have paid in advance this may not be the yard owners perspective on this. If you are going to put anything in writing please be careful . I am sorry to be so negative about this but as I said in a previous post I have met the most wonderful people through horses and the very worst. The people who supported me through all this were some of the most generous, kind and amazing people.
ponypilotmum
Well-Known Member
Just go. Take your belongings, leave a note and walk. If there is no contract then you do not owe them a penny.
legally, with NO contract, they can do nothing, and the law is on your side as the horse belongs to you.
If they harrass you for money etc, ask them to provide proof that you owe them whatever they're claiming. When they can't, politely point out that you do not wish to be harrassed.
Take a big deep breath, you've got your Oh on side and a lovely new yard to look forward to, grab some dutch courage and just do it!
legally, with NO contract, they can do nothing, and the law is on your side as the horse belongs to you.
If they harrass you for money etc, ask them to provide proof that you owe them whatever they're claiming. When they can't, politely point out that you do not wish to be harrassed.
Take a big deep breath, you've got your Oh on side and a lovely new yard to look forward to, grab some dutch courage and just do it!
3BayGeldings
Well-Known Member
The notice period is really about the money. I was on a yard and signed a contract saying "1 month notice" - so I paid a month, but I still moved the horse on the day. They don't give a stuff if the horse is there or not. If you've not got a contract, then I would tell them and leave at the same time.
crabbymare
Well-Known Member
I would take home anything the horse or yard does not NEED to take proper care of him home tonight when nobody is around and move other stuff slightly so any gap does not show up and then get your OH to take you there and take the horse for a hack to the old yard. If you leave them a polite but firm letter stating the reasons you have left there would not be much they can do. Would they have another horse they could use for the next few times they would have used him? I imagine if he is only being used once a day it should be easy enough to cover if so get him out fast, otherwise perhaps move on Sunday night so they cannot say you left them without a horse for the weekend but if they only use him Saturday then just move that evening. also if you can turn up every evening just to keep them on their toes its only 3 or 4 nights and will mean he is checked by you and also gives you time to move your stuff and prepare a bed for him.
111ex111
Well-Known Member
If you have paid September already & there is no contract then just leave!!!
You wont owe them anything- they will be getting your money for the rest of the month when they dont have a horse to take care off!
get your stuff, leave a note and off you go
You wont owe them anything- they will be getting your money for the rest of the month when they dont have a horse to take care off!
get your stuff, leave a note and off you go
Slightlyconfused
Go away, I'm reading
Id do for option one.....we have given
Notice before and two weeks in it became unbearable so left sooner.
Notice before and two weeks in it became unbearable so left sooner.
Bikerchickone
Well-Known Member
Sugar and Spice I didn't mean she shouldn't take the horse and all equipment immediately, just that I would pay the notice with a cheque enclosed in the letter I left to avoid any unpleasantness later. As I said, my horses would be off of there instantly along with all their stuff. I agree she shouldn't have to pay notice at all after the dismal care her horse has had however with this yard having her horse on working livery they could easily argue loss of revenue caused by her actions so I would take every step to prevent that. Having kept my horse on working livery in the past I know that the owner of the yard I used to be on would persue anyone who didn't meet the conditions of their verbal contracts. IMHO it's not worth the hassle. Take the horse and all stuff asap but leave the letter explaining why you're not happy in very basic factual terms but leave a cheque also and point out that this is in lieu of notice. Hopefully they will accept that the money saved from not having to feed and keep the horse will make up any lost revenue from his leaving.
It's not fair and in an ideal world no the OP shouldn't have to do this but we don't live in an ideal world. What happens if new yard owner is friends with the old one? Will she be evicted because she 'owes' them money? Will she struggle in future to find a yard because word gets round that she does a moonlight flit (as my yard owner calls it) and leaves without paying? It's a few hundred quid and whilst I'd struggle to find it the same as everyone else it's buying her own peace of mind and not leaving her open to costs of several thousand pounds should the yard owner take it further.
It's not fair and in an ideal world no the OP shouldn't have to do this but we don't live in an ideal world. What happens if new yard owner is friends with the old one? Will she be evicted because she 'owes' them money? Will she struggle in future to find a yard because word gets round that she does a moonlight flit (as my yard owner calls it) and leaves without paying? It's a few hundred quid and whilst I'd struggle to find it the same as everyone else it's buying her own peace of mind and not leaving her open to costs of several thousand pounds should the yard owner take it further.
Elsiecat
Well-Known Member
This ^
After reading of your circumstances the other day there will probably be drama either way you tackle this, so just go for it.
SadKen
Well-Known Member
I would say option 1, for the following reasons:
1. There is only a verbal contract and if litigating the yard would need to prove any contract to the satisfaction of the court. The OP didn't say anything about notice even having been discussed (or did I miss it?).
2. Even if there was a contract, requirements for care of the horse were a part of that contract, and they have not been met. Hence, the yard have broken the contract first and cannot enforce any notice period. Technically, OP could counter claim for a breach of the contract (although I would only do this if legal action is threatened by the yard due to the sticky wicket in point 1).
3. Payments made are in advance for the month and are for services provided. In the absence of a notice period in the contract, the OP is fully paid up for September. No services are required for October. Moving the horse ASAP actually provides the yard with a week+ of payment for free, covering stable/feed/services, which would be more than adequate for any loss of use for lessons imho. The yard have to be prepared for that from an injury perspective after all.
I'm crap at confrontation as well so I'd go for 1 but you'd have to be really careful what you put in the letter. Wouldn't apologise, and would keep a copy of said letter together with photos of the horse etc as suggested above, so you can prove breach of contract by the yard as far as possible, in case they decide to sue. I'd try and make the letter as polite as possible because you catch more bees with honey than vinegar. No need to tell 'em what you really think!
The BHS legal helpline might be useful if you're a gold member OP.
1. There is only a verbal contract and if litigating the yard would need to prove any contract to the satisfaction of the court. The OP didn't say anything about notice even having been discussed (or did I miss it?).
2. Even if there was a contract, requirements for care of the horse were a part of that contract, and they have not been met. Hence, the yard have broken the contract first and cannot enforce any notice period. Technically, OP could counter claim for a breach of the contract (although I would only do this if legal action is threatened by the yard due to the sticky wicket in point 1).
3. Payments made are in advance for the month and are for services provided. In the absence of a notice period in the contract, the OP is fully paid up for September. No services are required for October. Moving the horse ASAP actually provides the yard with a week+ of payment for free, covering stable/feed/services, which would be more than adequate for any loss of use for lessons imho. The yard have to be prepared for that from an injury perspective after all.
I'm crap at confrontation as well so I'd go for 1 but you'd have to be really careful what you put in the letter. Wouldn't apologise, and would keep a copy of said letter together with photos of the horse etc as suggested above, so you can prove breach of contract by the yard as far as possible, in case they decide to sue. I'd try and make the letter as polite as possible because you catch more bees with honey than vinegar. No need to tell 'em what you really think!
The BHS legal helpline might be useful if you're a gold member OP.
Queenbee
Well-Known Member
Whilst it would be common courtesy to pay the months notice, I actually dont see that OP has to, there is no contract, and whilst one could argue that there is a sort of precedent (the OP usually pays monthly) the reason she is leaving is that the horse is not recieving the level of care she has been paying for... nowhere near, therefore I would have to say that I dont think OP should be paying for a months notice.
LollyDolly
Well-Known Member
Option 1
Queenbee
Well-Known Member
Whilst a verbal contract is as binding as a written contract, the Yard have broken the verbal contract by not providing the service that OP was paying for, as such she has no legal obligation to pay notice.
crabbymare
Well-Known Member
Thinking a bit more on this I would also wonder if they don't want you turning up unannounced because they are doing more than 1 ride a day with him which would also explain him not being turned out as much around the rides.
CBFan
Well-Known Member
When I left my horrid horrid horrid yard back in June I text my ex y/o saying 'Hi X, Just to let you know I am leaving the yard today. You have 2 weeks rent in hand which covers my notice period and £45 deposit which (more than) covers the wormer I owe you for and X number of bales of hay taken. Keep the rest.'
I didn't give a reason but when she came looking for one I gave her one.
My yard was attrocious. The most bitchy behaviour going. It peaked one Saturday morning, I went to look at another yard that afternoon and packed up and moved my horse the next morning - not easy - 3 trailer loads of stuff (one basically being his stable which dad and I had built!!) and it's the best thing I ever did - no week of hell trying to just enjoy my horse in a yard of bitches or putting up with sub standard care. I just went.
Not the way I would usually do things but when needs must... do the thing that is least stressfull to you. x
I didn't give a reason but when she came looking for one I gave her one.
My yard was attrocious. The most bitchy behaviour going. It peaked one Saturday morning, I went to look at another yard that afternoon and packed up and moved my horse the next morning - not easy - 3 trailer loads of stuff (one basically being his stable which dad and I had built!!) and it's the best thing I ever did - no week of hell trying to just enjoy my horse in a yard of bitches or putting up with sub standard care. I just went.
Not the way I would usually do things but when needs must... do the thing that is least stressfull to you. x
stargirl88
Well-Known Member
Pack up - tack up - and go.
In your note you can tell them to use the money you gave them for the extra services that never happened as your weeks notice.
Good luck!
In your note you can tell them to use the money you gave them for the extra services that never happened as your weeks notice.
Good luck!
Patterdale
Well-Known Member
Sod them, I would just go. Option 1.
Normally id always pay notice and leave everywhere on good terms, but in this instance I don't think that that is necessary!
Personally, I would just take my horse and my stuff and go. There is NO WAY I would give them even one more penny - if they thought I owed and wanted it they would have to find me and fight me for it. And even then they would lose
Option 1. Let us all know how you get on, whatever you decide
Normally id always pay notice and leave everywhere on good terms, but in this instance I don't think that that is necessary!
Personally, I would just take my horse and my stuff and go. There is NO WAY I would give them even one more penny - if they thought I owed and wanted it they would have to find me and fight me for it. And even then they would lose
Option 1. Let us all know how you get on, whatever you decide
AmyMay
Situation normal
I disagree that there is no contract.
But - at the end of the day OP should just go. She can work out the rest later.
This post has become rather OTT in my view.
Maesfen
Extremely Old Nag!
Exactly what I would have written! Some might call it being devious but in this case I call it subtle! Good luck.
Foxtrot Filly
Active Member
Thank you everyone for the input I will be going up tonight just to check him and im sure give him more feed and hay and will have a think on the best course of action and talk it through with the OH!
Will let you know the outcome!
Will let you know the outcome!