How the heck

Well, everyone being a handful of people on a forum. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but turning the public against each other is the number one tactic employed by organisations like the Govt, to keep people moaning about things that don't matter, and being blind to bigger things they are doing behind our backs. Here's the study if anyone's interested - 70p in every £100 accounts for fraud, and as a taxpayer I don't particularly mind one of my 70ps every year going to waste if it means someone else can live comfortably without being poverty stricken. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/nov/10/benefit-cheats-fraud-support
 
Wow.
Much hatred, lots of assumptions and a big dollop of bigotry on top.

I think Arizahn and MerrySherry hit the nail right on the head. How other people choose to spend their money is none of your business, whether they work or not (for ANY reason), and no one should be pigeon-holed, looked down on or made to justify themselves to make you feel morally superior.

As a recently-made-redundant, unemployed person (who is desperate for another job, if that matters so much in your eyes), I pay off my horse's keep by working my a** off at her livery yard. She wants for nothing, and I'm just as worthy of keeping a horse as anyone else.
 
I know because they tell, it is my business if they have so much benefit they can run a car and a horse and laugh at us who work. Yet a good friend has spinal problems walks with 2 sticks constant pain yet works and pays tax. fiwen30 you want to work that is the difference.
 
These posts always make me laugh. Unless you have personal access to these people's bank accounts, and know exactly what benefits they receive and where their money goes, who the hell gives you the right to judge?

'I know because they tell' - how do you know what they are telling you is true?!
 
Wow lots of assuming going on here. I reckon a lot of people "assume" about my situation to, in fact I know they do as folk have been rude enough in the past to question me over my finances.

I drive a big 4x4, have 1 horse on full livery, a reasonably active social life other than the horse & only work 20 hours a week. It's certainly not benefits that pay for it.
 
MileAMinute said:
'I know because they tell' - how do you know what they are telling you is true?!
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Because with the couple of benefit people I've had on my yard, their social workers were the ones who contacted me first looking for livery for their horses and told me upfront how much available income they had. I moved my 'disability allowance' people on (with difficulty) and would never have any more here.
 
Bexx said:
I can see both points here. It must be awful to want to work but not being able to. On the other hand, today one of my year 10 students was refusing to work. She said "what's the point in doing all this to get a job when I can just claim benefits"
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then educate her and give her the self worth to aim higher-don't give up on her
 
Spring Feather said:
Because with the couple of benefit people I've had on my yard, their social workers were the ones who contacted me first looking for livery for their horses and told me upfront how much available income they had. I moved my 'disability allowance' people on (with difficulty) and would never have any more here.
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That was the social workers that gave you that information though, not the people themselves bragging about it.

I just don't get people, bragging or not. If I was on benefits I wouldn't disclose how much I had. I don't even like discussing my wage packet. I certainly wouldn't judge others on it either.
 
Not wanting to comment on any individual case, so I am talking hypothetically here. Benefits are not designed to buy people luxury items, or maintain luxury items. If someone really is truly on benefits when they could work, then they really should not be able to afford to keep a horse. Benefits are designed to feed, clothe and house people in NEED. If someone is spending their benefit money on keeping one or more horses then they have more money than they NEED. Something is very wrong there. An exception to this would be if someone suddenly fell on hard times, such as illness or accident or redundancy.
 
wills_91 said:
Surely a social worker should not be discussing those kind of things?!
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Don't know how it works in the UK but here it is the SW who contacts you regarding boarding horses for their 'clients' and telling you their income is one of the first things they tell you, after they mention the amount of horses each person has. One person 'needed her horses'; she had 6 ...
 
Spring Feather said:
Don't know how it works in the UK but here it is the SW who contacts you regarding boarding horses for their 'clients' and telling you their income is one of the first things they tell you, after they mention the amount of horses each person has. One person 'needed her horses'; she had 6 ...
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Ahh I see, I mis read the first post :)
 
Arizahn said:
I love threads like this. They tell me who to put onto ignore. I honestly don't have the emotional energy required to explain to any of you just how hurtful and flat out wrong you are about life on benefits.

I will tell you this:

That it isn't my fault that I am considered uninsurable and therefore unemployable due to my health.
That I have begged for work - any work - and have been oh so very kindly told that I belong on DLA and not to worry.
That I refuse to apply for DLA as I am sick of being labelled, and I don't care how much easier life would be, you can't make me - I want a job.
That I am afraid to tell anyone about my medical condition because of the associated prejudices.
That I have been physically, verbally, emotionally and financially abused by people because of these prejudices and that some of those people were my own family.
That I don't even qualify for work as a medical test subject due to my medical condition.
That the NHS has left me in chronic pain for almost nine years.
That the physiotherapy required to help me walk normally only began this month and has already been cancelled as I had to move house to escape abusive neighbours and now I belong to a different trust - those organising the treatment knew that I had moved before they arranged the first appointment but didn't bother changing my details over.
That the police did nothing regarding the neighbours and their assault because there were three of them, one of me, and none of the witnesses would risk saying anything - isn't NI delightful?
That I still have all the usual concerns that "decent hard working people have", and that this year those concerns reached a point where I attempted to take my own life.
That Lifeline are wonderful people.
That anyone who spouts the sort of "benefits means you are just a scrounger" rhetoric is not a wonderful person.
That I have lived with the risk of dying in my sleep for more than twenty years and that this will never go away because my brain is faulty.
That I have to go through dental treatment without any form of sedation because my brain is faulty.
That the medication for my faulty brain caused me to miscarry my only child and that she would have been three years old this May and that I miss her.
That I had to hide my miscarriage from my family because they needed me to be strong and support my father during my abusive mother's funeral, and that I still haven't told them because they never have time to listen and it really isn't a short conversation and it's too late now to start.
That I am not crying because I don't know how to cry like a normal person - thanks so much for that, mother.
That I have been paid a benefit (gasp) to be a full time carer to another disabled person for over twelve years - guess what, I paid tax for this - despite begging to be assigned actual help as honestly I cannot do this alone, I just can't, but they don't want to have to pay an actual carer as that would cost three times as much.
That I can't get a "real" job as a carer despite having been one for over twelve years as I wouldn't be insurable.
That I have recently graduated with a BA from a Russell Group university and was considered to be one of the best students in my year.
That the field of work I spent four years qualifying for is now haemorrhaging employees rather than recruiting them, so sorry about that, no job!
That I am as close to angry as someone who has been denied emotion can be.
That I am a published writer and self-employed freelance copy editor and illustrator, but that HMRC whom I am in regular contact with don't want my money yet as currently I don't earn enough. Likewise the IRS. Whoo - global economic stuff!
That nanowrimo made me laugh bitterly as I can produce 50k words in a week if need be, but still can't be employed in case my brain malfunctions whilst at work or some such rubbish.
That many people on benefits don't want to be there but can't get out of the system.
That there are different types of benefit and if you are on them due to illness then you are truly unwell.
That you are required to prove yourself yearly and that if you fail they stop your money completely, including rent, until you have successfully reapplied, which takes about three months btw.
That my household of two disabled and ill adults who desperately want to work but aren't considered capable/employable subsists on £170 per week, plus £96 towards rent and rates, and that my rent and rates is £125 per week.
That I still refuse to apply for DLA because I won't give those people who judge another stick to hit me with.
That horses and other animals can be kept to a budget and that they are my reason for not finishing what I started earlier this year.
That I have a vet fund rather than insurance (because insurance companies don't like to insure disabled people) and will PTS if I can't afford to treat.
That I know people who are employed full time in my preferred sector who have perfected the art of pulling sickies to get out of work because the weather is horrid or they are hung-over.
That before I was labelled as incapable, I worked full time for £2.50 per hour before tax, as we didn't have minimum wage then, and I never missed a day.
That by now the platitude of "but disabled people/ill people are different and of course we luffs them" has most likely been said - and that it is immensely offensive.
That some people don't know how lucky they are to be able to work and that I truly hope they never find out what it is like for me and my kind.
That we are indeed a separate group within society.
That benefits and council homes are there for whoever needs them, and that someday that may well be you, and that actually even people in work may also receive benefits, and that it's actually really hard to qualify for them.
That the benefits office pay National Insurance for me so actually I am still contributing to society.
That there are not enough painkillers in the world but luckily my defective brain no longer registers sensation properly and so I am less aware of the pain now.
That I buy my groceries just like you do but can't afford quite as many nice things, but hey - that money still goes back into the economy.
That my carbon footprint is zero, I don't drive, I don't have holidays, I don't smoke, I don't do drugs, and I don't drink - excuse me if I choose to have animals instead.
That every time I think I am wrong about the inherent nastiness of humans a thread like this comes along.
That I will happily swop my life with anyone who thinks that I have it easy because I "don't work" - wow, you think I want to be trapped and dependent?
That benefits paid to couples are paid to one person in the couple and not both and that this leaves many vulnerable people trapped in abusive marriages, especially if they are aged under 35 and have no children as they simply can't afford to live alone and won't have access to what they are entitled to when they first leave either - assuming that they can scrape together enough money to leave, and that their abusive partner will let them go.
That their abusive partners will not simply let them go because hey, abusive!
That the above fact should be taught in schools to prevent these relationships from beginning, but this thread will do for a start.
That no one wants to live below the breadline but sometimes you don't have a choice.
That anyone who doesn't understand this is beneath my contempt.
Click to expand...

^^^THIS^^^

OP I'm on Benefits NOT Because I want to Be but Because I'm Now Considered UN Empolyable and Lost My Job Due to Having Fibro So Your Words are Hurtful to Me as well....

PLEASE Think Before You Post
Thanks
 
Arizahn said:
I love threads like this. They tell me who to put onto ignore. I honestly don't have the emotional energy required to explain to any of you just how hurtful and flat out wrong you are about life on benefits.

I will tell you this:

That it isn't my fault that I am considered uninsurable and therefore unemployable due to my health.
That I have begged for work - any work - and have been oh so very kindly told that I belong on DLA and not to worry.
That I refuse to apply for DLA as I am sick of being labelled, and I don't care how much easier life would be, you can't make me - I want a job.
That I am afraid to tell anyone about my medical condition because of the associated prejudices.
That I have been physically, verbally, emotionally and financially abused by people because of these prejudices and that some of those people were my own family.
That I don't even qualify for work as a medical test subject due to my medical condition.
That the NHS has left me in chronic pain for almost nine years.
That the physiotherapy required to help me walk normally only began this month and has already been cancelled as I had to move house to escape abusive neighbours and now I belong to a different trust - those organising the treatment knew that I had moved before they arranged the first appointment but didn't bother changing my details over.
That the police did nothing regarding the neighbours and their assault because there were three of them, one of me, and none of the witnesses would risk saying anything - isn't NI delightful?
That I still have all the usual concerns that "decent hard working people have", and that this year those concerns reached a point where I attempted to take my own life.
That Lifeline are wonderful people.
That anyone who spouts the sort of "benefits means you are just a scrounger" rhetoric is not a wonderful person.
That I have lived with the risk of dying in my sleep for more than twenty years and that this will never go away because my brain is faulty.
That I have to go through dental treatment without any form of sedation because my brain is faulty.
That the medication for my faulty brain caused me to miscarry my only child and that she would have been three years old this May and that I miss her.
That I had to hide my miscarriage from my family because they needed me to be strong and support my father during my abusive mother's funeral, and that I still haven't told them because they never have time to listen and it really isn't a short conversation and it's too late now to start.
That I am not crying because I don't know how to cry like a normal person - thanks so much for that, mother.
That I have been paid a benefit (gasp) to be a full time carer to another disabled person for over twelve years - guess what, I paid tax for this - despite begging to be assigned actual help as honestly I cannot do this alone, I just can't, but they don't want to have to pay an actual carer as that would cost three times as much.
That I can't get a "real" job as a carer despite having been one for over twelve years as I wouldn't be insurable.
That I have recently graduated with a BA from a Russell Group university and was considered to be one of the best students in my year.
That the field of work I spent four years qualifying for is now haemorrhaging employees rather than recruiting them, so sorry about that, no job!
That I am as close to angry as someone who has been denied emotion can be.
That I am a published writer and self-employed freelance copy editor and illustrator, but that HMRC whom I am in regular contact with don't want my money yet as currently I don't earn enough. Likewise the IRS. Whoo - global economic stuff!
That nanowrimo made me laugh bitterly as I can produce 50k words in a week if need be, but still can't be employed in case my brain malfunctions whilst at work or some such rubbish.
That many people on benefits don't want to be there but can't get out of the system.
That there are different types of benefit and if you are on them due to illness then you are truly unwell.
That you are required to prove yourself yearly and that if you fail they stop your money completely, including rent, until you have successfully reapplied, which takes about three months btw.
That my household of two disabled and ill adults who desperately want to work but aren't considered capable/employable subsists on £170 per week, plus £96 towards rent and rates, and that my rent and rates is £125 per week.
That I still refuse to apply for DLA because I won't give those people who judge another stick to hit me with.
That horses and other animals can be kept to a budget and that they are my reason for not finishing what I started earlier this year.
That I have a vet fund rather than insurance (because insurance companies don't like to insure disabled people) and will PTS if I can't afford to treat.
That I know people who are employed full time in my preferred sector who have perfected the art of pulling sickies to get out of work because the weather is horrid or they are hung-over.
That before I was labelled as incapable, I worked full time for £2.50 per hour before tax, as we didn't have minimum wage then, and I never missed a day.
That by now the platitude of "but disabled people/ill people are different and of course we luffs them" has most likely been said - and that it is immensely offensive.
That some people don't know how lucky they are to be able to work and that I truly hope they never find out what it is like for me and my kind.
That we are indeed a separate group within society.
That benefits and council homes are there for whoever needs them, and that someday that may well be you, and that actually even people in work may also receive benefits, and that it's actually really hard to qualify for them.
That the benefits office pay National Insurance for me so actually I am still contributing to society.
That there are not enough painkillers in the world but luckily my defective brain no longer registers sensation properly and so I am less aware of the pain now.
That I buy my groceries just like you do but can't afford quite as many nice things, but hey - that money still goes back into the economy.
That my carbon footprint is zero, I don't drive, I don't have holidays, I don't smoke, I don't do drugs, and I don't drink - excuse me if I choose to have animals instead.
That every time I think I am wrong about the inherent nastiness of humans a thread like this comes along.
That I will happily swop my life with anyone who thinks that I have it easy because I "don't work" - wow, you think I want to be trapped and dependent?
That benefits paid to couples are paid to one person in the couple and not both and that this leaves many vulnerable people trapped in abusive marriages, especially if they are aged under 35 and have no children as they simply can't afford to live alone and won't have access to what they are entitled to when they first leave either - assuming that they can scrape together enough money to leave, and that their abusive partner will let them go.
That their abusive partners will not simply let them go because hey, abusive!
That the above fact should be taught in schools to prevent these relationships from beginning, but this thread will do for a start.
That no one wants to live below the breadline but sometimes you don't have a choice.
That anyone who doesn't understand this is beneath my contempt.
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well written, I too have been through hell the last few years and basically ended up in temporary housing as a single parent with two children. My horse was sold due to this but after a year of feeling depressed as I missed the horses so much, I took on a little native pony and put him on grass livery , no sandschool, no stable and he is cheap to keep, hence native! I have been told by people I shouldn't even have a pony but I work part time (I physically cannot work full time with two young children and childcare would cost more than I would earn) but I can say that he has the essentials of what he needs and any extras I ask for birthday and xmas pressies. I have insurance incase of vets bills but he is my life and has really made me feel myself again. I cannot describe how low I felt when I lost my other animals, my boys dad and my home and my horse all within a week. my pony has been my saviour, rightly or wrongly.
 
I just don't understand why the fact that so many people have stories such as Arizahn and have my true respect, means that I can't also be annoyed at someone who is blatantly playing the system (for example i know someone receiving disability benefit, working cash at hand at the yard full time and I KNOW she doesn't pay tax on it because she had the cheek to ask me for advice on how best to avoid it as I'm an accountant!)? If someone can explain why this is the case I would be most grateful. I understand the issues re judging people, making assumptions etc, but there are situations where people flagrantly lie to avoid work or taxation, and surely everyone else, taxpaying or not, should vilify them?
 
Possum said:
I just don't understand why the fact that so many people have stories such as Arizahn and have my true respect, means that I can't also be annoyed at someone who is blatantly playing the system (for example i know someone receiving disability benefit, working cash at hand at the yard full time and I KNOW she doesn't pay tax on it because she had the cheek to ask me for advice on how best to avoid it as I'm an accountant!)? If someone can explain why this is the case I would be most grateful. I understand the issues re judging people, making assumptions etc, but there are situations where people flagrantly lie to avoid work or taxation, and surely everyone else, taxpaying or not, should vilify them?
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Agree.
 
Its one of those how long is a piece of string scenarios. Posts like this annoy me, some people only see the bad stories!

I am on benefits, i have various neurological, physical and mental issues (anxiety, panic attacks etc)
I can just about afford to keep my welsh sec a. This is not because i am paid loads of money!

I still live at home (aged 20) so only pay my share of the rent (i could claim housing benefit but don't) I don't have a car, cant afford to learn to drive and even if i did couldn't afford the cost of running a car. I don't have a tv, or drink, or smoke, or go out. I live as cheaply as possible in order to keep my pony.

I am doing all i can in the mean time to improve my health, as i don't want to be on benefits forever.

I get less than £100 a week, its doable but not easy and without family support (not financially) - impossible.
 
If anything I would think that those in such situations would be just as annoyed if not more at those who are taking advantage of the system - and as such making them feel like they are 'lumped in' with that sort of stereotype.
 
stormclouds said:
There was an interesting study published by the Guardian (I think) quite recently, about public perception vs. reality. The truth about benefit 'scroungers' is that they make up something ridiculous like 0.3% of all people in the entire country accepting any form of help. It's a tiny, tiny amount, we just happen to have a national media that loves nothing more than pinning the failures of this country on a group of people who can very rarely stand up for themselves (unlike corporations and banks who accept billions a year in forms of 'benefits' and Gov handouts, and sit defending themselves and their tax evasions).

Life is too short to spend time moaning about what other people do or don't have, or judging people you don't know for what they put on show.
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This.
 
Well the easy solution would be for those with evidence of fraud to report it to the relevant authorities, wouldn't it? And let them investigate. Of course, if it later turned out you were wrong and they'd done nothing wrong, that could feel pretty awful I suppose.

Those who are considered to be able to work receive less benefits than those who are considered to be unable. You certainly couldn't keep a horse on what they get, especially healthy singletons with no dependents. I actually don't know how they get by at all. Of course people with dependents receive a little more. As do all us lucky sick people.

If someone really is truly on benefits when they could work, then they must actively seek work. Legally this is required of them. It doesn't mean they'll find it, but they should seek it. If they are deemed capable of work, and don't seek work then their benefits stop anyhow. If they aren't deemed capable of work, no one really cares what they get up to as they are now simply numbers in the system until their next assessment. Sometimes there isn't even an assessment, someone just ticks a box. Sometimes there are lots of assessments, and maybe a box isn't ticked that should have been - well, there goes the money for central heating this month then! It happens.

I am sick of being a number. I want my identity back - I want a job. I'm so mind numbingly bored being unemployed that I wrote not one but several books. And they have done well, but shall never make me rich. In fact, I will probably never even attain the tax threshold. And that annoys me too. I want to do better, but I can't, because apparently I'm broken.

I don't like being broken :(

Yes, when you are like me, they give you more benefit than they would a healthy person. I don't know why. Maybe it is to apologise for being ill, or to make the healthy person suffer for not having a job? Certainly, it keeps us all at each others' throats.

Bread and circuses, that's all it's ever been and all it ever will be.
 
twiggy2 said:
then educate her and give her the self worth to aim higher-don't give up on her
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I am honestly trying my hardest with her. It's so difficult when they are set in that frame of mind and you try to coax them out of it just to be told repeatedly to F off and have books launched across the classroom. I could have her removed from my class and isolated but I am trying to give her enough basic knowledge to be able to help herself out once she grows up and realises being an adult is not easy
 
Possum said:
(for example i know someone receiving disability benefit, working cash at hand at the yard full time and I KNOW she doesn't pay tax on it because she had the cheek to ask me for advice on how best to avoid it as I'm an accountant!)?
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Well its my understanding that tax avoidance is 'legal' and its usually rich people who consult accountants to help them avoid tax. Tax evasion is of course another matter entirely.
Perhaps Employers should not be paying cash in hand. ..perhaps you should have a go at the YO instead??? ( nothing against accountants or yard owners..just trying and perhaps badly ...to point out that this whole area is very complex. Threads like this are very depressing ! I have not read the Guardian article but it is also my understanding that the state saves more in unclaimed benefits than it pays out in abuse of the system. Hitting on individuals is very convenient for the Govt isnt it? Threads like this actually stop a lot of people who are rightly entitled to benefit from applying in the first place.
 
Threads like this make me so angry....unless you are in the position of being on benefits for whatever reason then maybe you need to wind your neck in :(
I don't work, I can't. I have a severely disabled child with life limiting problems. She can be ill at the drop of a hat and need immediate emergency services. I am not only her Mother but also her full time carer.
I am unwell myself...I suffer from depression and anxiety plus Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue.
I have tried to get a job but no-one wants me...they don't like my own problems and when they find out I may have to leave work without notice at any time to go to my daughter they are even less interested :(
I don't drink, smoke, socialise, go on holiday etc etc. All I have is my animals and I'm not about to apologise for that!!!!
 
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