How to care for a litter of puppies?

[misst]

I got my JRT from a lady who never had them in the house. They were born and raised in a kennel and run. Her children played with them in the run but the dogs never ever went in the house. I got her at 10 weeks. She never had a problem adapting to being a house dog and is the laziest, most spoiled lap dog when at home. She was dead easy to house train and never ever had problems socialising. She is a lousey ratter though!

 

[EAST KENT]

Sorry but no,I would not be buying a puppy reared in a horse trailer,and then an empty round bale feeder!Talk about "minimal care" ,well this is it really,not much better than a puppy farm.Some of my litters are indeed outside,but in proper accommadation that can be cleaned properly,fed several times a day on raw food.Just bunging in some pellets?Not good enough.So,of course,you clip their toe nails weekly,check for fleas and lice?You KNOW absolutely if any of them are even slightly loose?Not shocked often,but I am afraid this does shock me,foxhounds get far better attention in hunt kennels.
Please leave breeding a litter to someone a bit more savvy with a litter`s needs.

 

[Sandstone1]

I have to say that if this was a planned litter I would have thought that more time and effort should have gone in to finding out more about raising a litter well beforehand not after pups are already here. I too would not buy a puppy as a pet that was brought up this way im afraid.

 

[Patterdale]

Sorry but no,I would not be buying a puppy reared in a horse trailer,and then an empty round bale feeder!Talk about "minimal care" ,well this is it really,not much better than a puppy farm.Some of my litters are indeed outside,but in proper accommadation that can be cleaned properly,fed several times a day on raw food.Just bunging in some pellets?Not good enough.So,of course,you clip their toe nails weekly,check for fleas and lice?You KNOW absolutely if any of them are even slightly loose?Not shocked often,but I am afraid this does shock me,foxhounds get far better attention in hunt kennels.
Please leave breeding a litter to someone a bit more savvy with a litter`s needs.

Wow.
Different opinions I can take but comparing me to a puppy farm!??
FYI I put a LOT of thought into this litter. You think they're badly off because they lived in the horse trailer (rubber lined, warm, well ventilated, can be moved right next to the house) and then in a round feeder (secure, well ventilated, easy access for bitch to come in or out, easily cleaned/moved)!???? Tell me, would they have been better off had I spent a grand on a fancy branded puppy run?
I think not!

You've clearly not read the rest of the thread or you would have seen that no, I do NOT just 'bung in a few pellets.'
I spend ages playing with them every day, I just do not consider this to be 'work.'
So yes, I do know each puppy individually. They are all very happy, sociable little things.

I found your post incredibly insulting. I have always respected your opinion in here but I feel most of the things you've said and accused me of we're totally uncalled for and unfounded.

Luckily the people who have so far reserved pups are more than happy with their welfare and upbringing. In fact 2 have commented that it is lovely to see a litter raised in such a natural manner with an obviously happy and comfortable mother. I have raised healthy, happy and well socialised pups, and although it may not have been achieved using a brand new puppy run and round the clock pedicures I don't think I've done badly at all.

 

[Spring Feather]

Sorry but no,I would not be buying a puppy reared in a horse trailer,and then an empty round bale feeder!

Just to play devil's advocate here; what in your opinion is the difference between ^^ and a kennel with a run, like you see at so many commercial breeders/working dogs homes? I haven't highlighted the rest of your post as you can't possibly know what sort of care Patterdale's puppies are getting.

 

[Patterdale]

There's no difference, it's ridiculous.

And why, EASTKENT, do you seem to be vilifying me for feeding them top quality dry food? YOU may prefer to feed raw meat, which is fine. But I am feeding dry food - as many, MANY breeders do.

 

[EAST KENT]

If any Environmental Health Officer saw the conditions described he would freak,purely on the lack of cleanliness system or heating in place.I actually think everybody breeding a litter should have to adhere to minmal care and hygeine,being born and reared should not be a test to see if the puppy is "tough and natural" enough to make it.Funny thing is..if you were indeed a "puppy farmer" housing many litters in exactly the same way it would be on the telly.Dry food? Oh the lazy way,not for us old school do it properly breeders I`m afraid. My mentor`s would have an absolute fit! There are loads of litters brought up your way,but these days it ain`t good enough.

 

[s4sugar]

There is actually a big difference between a well constructed kennel & run and the improvised conditions described here. BTW you mention other litters -do you have a breeders licence?

 

[AmyMay]

Patterdale's puppies have been born and thus far brought up in a farm environment - this is perfectably acceptable, and by no means sub standard care. They have been safe, warm, dry and well cared for from day 1. They have not received minimal care. And have not merely been left to get on with it.

S4ugar - wind your nasty little neck in.

 

[Patterdale]

If any Environmental Health Officer saw the conditions described he would freak,purely on the lack of cleanliness system or heating in place.I actually think everybody breeding a litter should have to adhere to minmal care and hygeine,being born and reared should not be a test to see if the puppy is "tough and natural" enough to make it.Funny thing is..if you were indeed a "puppy farmer" housing many litters in exactly the same way it would be on the telly.Dry food? Oh the lazy way,not for us old school do it properly breeders I`m afraid. My mentor`s would have an absolute fit! There are loads of litters brought up your way,but these days it ain`t good enough.

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realise you'd inspected my premises??
Oh that's right - you haven't.

Exactly what kind of 'heating arrangements' would you like me to have for terrier puppies born at the end of summer, where its sunny and 17degrees here as I type??

And since when is a hay bed 'unclean'!?

I don't even know why I'm trying to justify myself here.......thankfully there are plenty of practical, sensible, knowledgeable and well mannered posters on here to make up for the ones here quoted.

 

[Spring Feather]

There is actually a big difference between a well constructed kennel & run and the improvised conditions described here.

And again to play devil's advocate, S4ugar and East Kent; what, specifically, are those differences? Is a horse trailer not well constructed? Or a bale feeder inside a barn in any way dangerous or detrimental in the raising of puppies? Is PDs bedding not cleaned out in the same fashion? Is the trailer not able to be disinfected as and when necessary? Is it that cold in England during summer to need to put heating in the containment area where puppies are living? Dry food? Plenty of breeders use good quality dry food so that's just a plain silly argument.

I've already said how I raise puppies and that way works for me, but I'm not so dogmatic as to believe the way I raise mine should be everyone's way of doing it.

 

[Dry Rot]

If any Environmental Health Officer saw the conditions described he would freak,purely on the lack of cleanliness system or heating in place.I actually think everybody breeding a litter should have to adhere to minmal care and hygeine,being born and reared should not be a test to see if the puppy is "tough and natural" enough to make it.Funny thing is..if you were indeed a "puppy farmer" housing many litters in exactly the same way it would be on the telly.Dry food? Oh the lazy way,not for us old school do it properly breeders I`m afraid. My mentor`s would have an absolute fit! There are loads of litters brought up your way,but these days it ain`t good enough.

If you are so well qualified to give advice, why do you need mentoring?

Just curious.

 

[Dobiegirl]

If you are so well qualified to give advice, why do you need mentoring?

Just curious.

I think the clue is in the word would which to me implies past tense but im sure EK will be along to confirm it.

Ive never bred a litter of puppies but did think about it having a show winning well bred DNA tested rare vulnerable breed bitch, I decided not to, too many unwanted dogs in rescue etc plus we love her so much we couldnt bear the thought of losing her. I would have had the whelping pen sorted well in advance and would have had a breeding friend on standby. I wouldnt have bred Patterdales either, I see too many in rescue and they are a dog very difficult to rehome, temperment being the biggest reason.

 

[Clodagh]

I do think getting overexcited because the pups are being fed dry food is a bit OTT! I would much prefer any puppy I got to be fed on it, I am not faffing about with raw when I have it at home so would rather it ate dry already. It is perfectly acceptable to feed dogs whatever you choose, as long as it is a decent product.

I too have never bred a litter and never will but I think comparing Patterdale to a puppy farmer is offensive and unnecessary.

 

[s4sugar]

I do think getting overexcited because the pups are being fed dry food is a bit OTT! I would much prefer any puppy I got to be fed on it, I am not faffing about with raw when I have it at home so would rather it ate dry already. It is perfectly acceptable to feed dogs whatever you choose, as long as it is a decent product.

I too have never bred a litter and never will but I think comparing Patterdale to a puppy farmer is offensive and unnecessary.

But Patterdale, by her own admission, IS a puppy farmer - these pups have been bred purely to sell as pets.

Dry food is not the problem, how it is being fed is - just as these puppies are not getting the early experiences you would expect pups destined to go as pets to have. The situation is very similar to the barns full of dogs being bred for the pet trade on Welsh farms but on a smaller scale.

 

[AmyMay]

Patterdale is not a puppy farmer.

And you can't compare one litter of puppies with barns full of puppies in any part of the country.

S4sugar, you are vile.

 

[Patterdale]

Patterdale is not a puppy farmer.

And you can't compare one litter of puppies with barns full of puppies in any part of the country.

S4sugar, you are vile.

Can't say much more than this really!

But wait - must get back to my puppy farming. Perhaps ill go and hurl insults at some kittens soon, before pelting them with harmful dry food.
If time permits.

:rolleyes3:

 

[s4sugar]

Patterdale is not a puppy farmer.

And you can't compare one litter of puppies with barns full of puppies in any part of the country.

S4sugar, you are vile.

No, not vile - honest & sick of people making excuses for poor breeding practices. The only difference is scale -one litter or many but raised the same way with the same intent.
I just wonder why you are being so defensive?

 

[AmyMay]

I just wonder why you are being so defensive?

Simply because you have made assumptions that are way off base. Have insulted a very honest poster.
And cast wild aspersions upon my friend.

 

[Dobiegirl]

Simply because you have made assumptions that are way off base. Have insulted a very honest poster.
And cast wild aspersions upon my friend.

So, unbiased then.


http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...f-breeding-raising-a-litter&highlight=vizslak


Perhaps a read of the above of a responsible bred litter wouldnt go amiss, notice there is no mention of hay bales.

 

[EAST KENT]

Obviously Mentored was in the past tense..some forty years ago now,by the top breeders in my breed for some forty years.Eva Weatherill was a pre-war nursing sister,that should give you a clue to her hygeine standards,she was my mentor. Hay/straw is dirty stuff,a trailer or bale feeder is never going to be as clean as it should for a litter of puppies. The puppies may well survive,but I do not believe a growing puppy should be challenged to actually survive,they deserve better.Truly,I would like every litter to be born and reared under licence in proper facilities,there is no defence for substandard litters reared entirely for sale.For you info,they should have had toenails trimmed weekly..so your bitch does`nt get scratched to bits,they should have been wormed from 14 days and then fortnightly,mother done at the same time.A decent box indoors,newspapers with a clean vet bed on top..that is normal practice.Hay??I don`t think so.

 

[Clodagh]

I must say I don't raise chicks on hay or straw, which are the only things I breed, as it is damp and hard to keep properly clean, so I give you that point. I have already said I think they are missing out on stuff living out all the time and I even give you that Patterdale is a farmer and has puppies...


BUT surely all puppies are bred for profit? Except the very, very few bred because the owner wants a pup from their bitch. The other 99% are bred for profit.

 

[Dry Rot]

All a puppy wants is a warm bed and a belly full of good food.

It does not matter whether that is in the middle of a large bale of hay in a feeder or in an enlarged rabbit hole! These days, there are plenty of properly formulated puppy feeds and I have no doubt there are some good dry ones.

I don't know where this idea came from that dogs are, by human standards, always clinically clean. They are not. They are programmed by thousands of years of natural selection to eat things which are decomposing. They are naturally opportunist feeders. If it is not decomposing, they'll bury it until it is, then dig it up and eat it with relish.

How do I know this? Because I have twenty years more experience of dogs than East Kent claims to have -- and on a large scale too. No, not puppy farming, but hounds first, then a long career mostly with gundogs. And you know what? All those gundogs were reared outside and absolutely relished the sound of a gunshot! Never tried them with a washing machine because they were outside dogs, but I'm sure they would have coped with that too.

Just love the posts that read "I've never bred a litter but...." (Insert here "I'm an expert"). I wouldn't sell a pup to you lot or you'd soon have it ruined and suited to a role in "Pedigree Dogs Exposed". Working dogs are incredibly tough and don't need pampering and fawning over, just a warm bed and a full belly....and an appreciative owner, which I am. I hate what show people are doing to our working dogs.

 

[Clodagh]

All a puppy wants is a warm bed and a belly full of good food.

It does not matter whether that is in the middle of a large bale of hay in a feeder or in an enlarged rabbit hole! These days, there are plenty of properly formulated puppy feeds and I have no doubt there are some good dry ones.

I don't know where this idea came from that dogs are, by human standards, always clinically clean. They are not. They are programmed by thousands of years of natural selection to eat things which are decomposing. They are naturally opportunist feeders. If it is not decomposing, they'll bury it until it is, then dig it up and eat it with relish.

How do I know this? Because I have twenty years more experience of dogs than East Kent claims to have -- and on a large scale too. No, not puppy farming, but hounds first, then a long career mostly with gundogs. And you know what? All those gundogs were reared outside and absolutely relished the sound of a gunshot! Never tried them with a washing machine because they were outside dogs, but I'm sure they would have coped with that too.

Just love the posts that read "I've never bred a litter but...." (Insert here "I'm an expert"). I wouldn't sell a pup to you lot or you'd soon have it ruined and suited to a role in "Pedigree Dogs Exposed". Working dogs are incredibly tough and don't need pampering and fawning over, just a warm bed and a full belly....and an appreciative owner, which I am. I hate what show people are doing to our working dogs.

I do agree with you but...Patterdale wants her pups to go to pet homes, not working.

 

[Dry Rot]

I do agree with you but...Patterdale wants her pups to go to pet homes, not working.

They are hers so, unless the law of property has changed, she is free to sell them to whoever she wishes. So what?

I've bred a few litters of Fell terriers and some went as pets, one to a pair of old ladies with a family cat. Yes, I warned them! They took great delight in reporting back a year later to tell me what a great success the pup was (from a long line of fox killers, I might add!) and that the cat was still alive and well and the dog and cat were the best of friends! (No mention of washing machines though).

Puppies, as I attempted to explain in a previous post, are best socialised between the ages of 6 and 8 weeks. But then the "experts" emerged and I was shouted down. But what do I know?

I usually keep out of these discussions but when innocent people get so rudely flamed, as the OP has been, enough is enough.

 

[Patterdale]

Thank you Dry Rot, and amymay.
As experienced and practical people I greatly value and respect your opinions, so it means a lot.

 

[Spring Feather]

I do agree with you but...Patterdale wants her pups to go to pet homes, not working.

What does it matter though? Puppies just take what comes their way and they'll fit in with whatever their home life is, and if it changes, they'll still fit in easily. That's why they are such good companion animals because they are adept at dealing with change.

As to where to birth and raise puppies. Every year a breeding pair of coyotes whelp in my woods. In a hole. I don't think they read your manual East Kent ...

 

[Dobiegirl]

Thank you Dry Rot, and amymay.
As experienced and practical people I greatly value and respect your opinions, so it means a lot.

I grant you Dry rot has experience but Amymay dosnt even own a dog lol

 

[Patterdale]

I grant you Dry rot has experience but Amymay dosnt even own a dog lol

That doesn't stop her from having a practical and sensible outlook on life, which I admire and respect.

 

[Patterdale]

As to where to birth and raise puppies. Every year a breeding pair of coyotes whelp in my woods. In a hole. I don't think they read your manual East Kent ...