How to care for a litter of puppies?

EAST KENT

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With all due respect. I don't know anyone who has managed to pull a tail off a puppy during whelping! However I commend that you were at least in attendance with a vet on the phone. As i stated before had you let nature take it's course you likely would have had a disaster on your hands. It makes me wonder though, how, if you are the type that doesn't believe in just letting the bitch get on with it DURING whelping why you took that stance more once they had arrived? Anyway that's just a random musing and of little consequence.

Pulled A TAIL OFF???Dear God,that would take some doing!Why defend the indefensible?You knew she was pregnant,the arrangements are not within a mile of being adequate,just don`t do it again.By the way...did someone dock them for you?Or perhaps the tails fell off at just the right length ,conveniently.Poor bloody dogs.
 

FinnishLapphund

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Personally I don't believe that you can only be a good dog owner if you feed raw/BARF. Since I doubt that there is anybody holding a gun to your head, and trying to force you to stop feeding your dogs raw EAST KENT, I don't understand why you have to talk so condescending about dry food.

Even though I rode and spent a lot of my youth in stables, even though that I continue to read a lot about horses, and that I'm interested in their behaviour etc, I don't own a horse. So judging by Dobiegirl's reply on this thread, I presume that there is people on HHO that thinks that I shouldn't respond to horse questions, but I have no intention to stop replying on horse threads when I feel for it.

To me, it sounds as if Vizslak expects good breeders to somehow be able to watch a litter 24 hours per day for 8 weeks so closely, so that they would immediately notice if one of the puppies died. Maybe that is not how she meant it, but it is how it sounded to me. Anyhow, personally, I tried to sleep as much as possible during the nights when I had a litter of puppies (which I did, by the way, breed to get a puppy to keep for myself). And even though I kept the litter in my bedroom, there is definitely a possibility/risk that I would not instantly have noticed if a puppy had died during night (after all, unless they did something that woke me up, I slept). Or day for that matter, e.g. I didn't take them with me to the toilet. I didn't think (and still don't) that there was such a big risk for that they would keel over and die at any possible moment, that I felt that such precautions was necessary.



I know that UK laws might be different, but according to Swedish law, quoted from "A compendium of animal welfare regulations applicable maintenance of dogs and cats", owners are to provide their dogs with the possibility to sleep/rest on something soft, a "surface that is thick enough so that the dog is comfortable and so that bed sores do not occur, may consist of straw, durable blankets, mattresses, soft mattresses etc."
It also says that whether the whelping box is in- or outdoors, "it should provide extra protection against cold temperatures."

As far as I know, hay or straw is rather good materials to use for insulation. So even though I don't currently know anybody that have straw beds for their dogs, adults or puppies, I don't automatically think that there is something wrong with the care that Patterdale gives their litter of puppies, it is fully possible that they're just doing it different from how I did it.
 

EAST KENT

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Hay and straw can have been accessed by rats and mice prior to use;these rodents carry killer diseases ..Lepto and Hepatitus,no puppy will survive them likely as not.THAT is the reason it is unacceptable bedding. In this country licensed breeders are made to provide accommadation capable of being heated,and quite right too.Even my local foxhound pack have whelping kennels with heat lamps,not hard to install at all.
 

NellRosk

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Patterdale please do not listen to these idiot fools (although I'm sure you aren't). My terrier bitch raised 5 pups outside and these are all (shock horror) alive/ in pet homes. I'm not sure why some of these breeders are getting quite so hysterical but they are really crossing the line with some comments and I'm not sure why they feel it their prerogative to do so!
 

Dry Rot

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Patterdale please do not listen to these idiot fools (although I'm sure you aren't). My terrier bitch raised 5 pups outside and these are all (shock horror) alive/ in pet homes. I'm not sure why some of these breeders are getting quite so hysterical but they are really crossing the line with some comments and I'm not sure why they feel it their prerogative to do so!

Well put.

Hay and straw harmful to dogs?

Sometimes it is better to keep your mouth shut and appear a fool rather than open it and remove all doubt.
 

EAST KENT

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I would assume then that Dry Rot has probably never heard of Leptospirosis or Hepatitus,much less vaccinated against it.The remark more applies to your good self,the conditions were inadequate,end of story.
 

hnmisty

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Well patterdale, I must say that's not how we bred and raised our pups (Labs), ours were born in the kitchen and stayed there for their first few weeks before they were moved to the shed with a heat lamp. We had a board across the door so mun could come and go as she wanted, and they were fed 5 times a day in individual dishes (cat food bowls actually... Gosh, I'm waiting for the knock on the door from the police for animal abuse!)

...but...you don't deserve to be called a puppy farmer, and whilst as I said whilst it's not the way we raised ours, I'm pretty certain your pups are doing just fine :)

I've seen some pretty um...interesting views on this thread...laughing at hay and straw being too dirty for animals that eat quite literally *****! Some people don't seem to realise that there's a slight difference between humans and animals. And if hay and straw are too dirty, what about the bare ground that animals are often born onto? Heaven forbid but our sheep usually lamb out in the field. I must make the case for concerting the living room into a sterile hospital ward.

I'm adding two things before I duck and run:

1) our puppies were on hay once they were moved outside

2) my dad (the breeder) is a vet
 

Spring Feather

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Hay and straw can have been accessed by rats and mice prior to use;these rodents carry killer diseases ..Lepto and Hepatitus,no puppy will survive them likely as not.THAT is the reason it is unacceptable bedding.

Oh for goodness sake; puppies, like almost all mammals, receive passive immunity from their mothers via placenta and then through the mothers colostrum. This gives them a good deal of protection against diseases in the early weeks until they are old enough to be vaccinated.
 

Crugeran Celt

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I am astounded where this thread has gone since I saw it first. I am quite sure Patterdale's pups are happy, healthy and thriving and will be ready for their new pet homes soon. For the few very rude and condescending posters, I thought this was a forum where people could expect constructive advice and a friendly animal savvy community to help us less knowledgeable animal owners not rude unnecessary criticism.
 

Patterdale

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Thanks everyone.

For a moment there I thought I had stepped into a parallel universe where hay and straw is toxic to animals and fresh air can kill in seconds.

I've also never heard of anyone adlib feeding a litter, that's possibley shocked me the most bizarrely. So I do wonder where your expert advice or research on weaning etc came from!

Going by farm animals, and using pet lambs as an example, if you give a bottle (or creep feed) every 4 hours, they bolt it down crazily and then lie in a corner with full bellies.
If you put them onto the milk machine, or a creep feeder, they regulate their own intake, eat just as much as they need, and mealtimes never become a crazy scrum.
This has been exactly the same with my puppies. They are all a healthy weight, and there is no competition for food as they all have constant access. They've regulated their own intake, as other animals do.
I don't regret for a moment feeding them adlib at this stage and I would do it again.

So again - not 'winging it' - but carefully thought out and executed.

Pulled A TAIL OFF???Dear God,that would take some doing!Why defend the indefensible?You knew she was pregnant,the arrangements are not within a mile of being adequate,just don`t do it again.By the way...did someone dock them for you?Or perhaps the tails fell off at just the right length ,conveniently.Poor bloody dogs.

If you had actually READ......
The first pup was stuck for a long time. We waited to hear back from the vet (it was out of hours) and when he rang he was an hour away. The puppy was breech and upside down. It was swollen, not moving and looking very dead. The bitch was exhausted.
The vet told us, as we already knew, that we had to get that puppy out if the others (and the bitch) were to be saved. We couldn't wait for him so he instructed us over the phone.
The pup was stuck fast and took some pretty hard pulling to get out. With only a tail and the tips of 2 tiny feet to go at, the tail took the worst of it.
The vet instructed us that this was preferable to a leg. If the tail broke, the pup would bear it much better than a broken leg.
The tail DID break, but the puppy came out, and the rest of the litter followed swiftly afterwards. It was only the very tip, half a centimetre if that.
The pup didnt breathe for a while but we eventually got it going and it's now just as bouncy as all the others.

And FYI, EASTKENT, in answer to the rest of your vitriolic bile - the rest of the litter are NOT DOCKED. I have left their tails well alone, as the mothers is, and as nature intended.

Thank you though, for your malicious assumptions, they've served very well to show your character as it truly is, even if they have no other use whatsoever.
 

Crugeran Celt

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Quite interesting that feeding add lib is not recommended as many midwives recommend feeding babies on demand these days which is the same thing as it is more natural!!!! I get so frustrated by people who probably do know more about this but instead of passing on their knowledge and being prepared to learn themselves they climb up on their pedestal and start dictating, just remember it can be a hard fall from such a high height.:wink3:
 

twiggy2

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Quite interesting that feeding add lib is not recommended as many midwives recommend feeding babies on demand these days which is the same thing as it is more natural!!!! I get so frustrated by people who probably do know more about this but instead of passing on their knowledge and being prepared to learn themselves they climb up on their pedestal and start dictating, just remember it can be a hard fall from such a high height.:wink3:

midwives recommend breast feeding on demand very different to solid food available all the time
 

Patterdale

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I watched Countryfile with interest.

I wonder if some contributors to this thread will be calling Ofcom - cruel heartless people bedding puppies on STRAW :eek3: :rolleyes3:

They must be total novices, 'winging it,' or puppy farmers.....

:rolleyes3:
 

DabDab

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I haven't been on HHO for a while and I just thought I'd go on the dog section because it is usually quiet in here and sometimes some interesting topics - but this thread is bonkers!

I am particularly intrigued by the notion that you have to keep an animal in its early life, in the way it will be kept in its adult life. Out of 3 dogs, 2 cats and 1 horse that I currently own, only one of them spent their early life in a situation even remotely similar to the one that I took them out of.

If people on here are breeding dogs so neurotic that they struggle to cope living in a different way from that which they were bred, or so lacking in immunity that they can't step outdoors without first having shots, then I think that says more about their breeding programme than how anyone else chooses to raise their animals.
 

Spring Feather

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Do your horses have access to forage constantly? Just wondering.

My horses have ad-lib food available to them at all times. As do my dogs. And my parrots. And my cats. And my family. And me :smile3:

And my puppies, although not fed ad-lib when they are first being weaned, once they are out and running around out of their pen, yes they are able to crunch away on the big dogs food if they so desire and as soon as they are fully integrated with my big dogs I also have ad-lib puppy food available to them at all times.
 

JFTDWS

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This thread is... barking :eek3:

I've never bred a litter...

But I'd have one of Patters' (or DryRot's, not that he'd let me!) in an instant.

I think some of the posts on this thread are disgusting - and I'm not one to advocate excessive mincing of words.
 
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Patterdale

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This thread is... barking :eek3:

I've never bred a litter...

But I'd have one of Patters' (or DryRot's, not that he'd let me!) in an instant.

I think some of the posts on this thread are disgusting - and I'm not one to advocate excessive mincing of words.

Thanks. I did think that some of the replies were pretty far past the line....!
 

AmyMay

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This thread is... barking :eek3:

I've never bred a litter...

But I'd have one of Patters' (or DryRot's, not that he'd let me!) in an instant.

I think some of the posts on this thread are disgusting - and I'm not one to advocate excessive mincing of words.

I'd have had one like a shot too. Just npt a possibility until our move in December. But a baby Patterdale would make a great companion for our Bichon.
 

JFTDWS

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Thanks. I did think that some of the replies were pretty far past the line....!

Beyond the pale, I'd say. But hey, I know who I think comes out of this ok, and who comes out of it having shown themselves up something rotten - for what little that's worth.
 

Slightlyconfused

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This thread is... barking :eek3:

I've never bred a litter...

But I'd have one of Patters' (or DryRot's, not that he'd let me!) in an instant.

I think some of the posts on this thread are disgusting - and I'm not one to advocate excessive mincing of words.


Agree with the above.

Our Cocker was reared the same way as patterdales pups, we brought her from a farmer from his barn......she then cane to live in our house, mum was a child minder and we never ever had a problem. She was the sweetest dog you could ever own, put up with the kids like she had been round them her entire life, we sadly lost her five years ago at the grand old age of 13.

All of my Grampys gun dogs were reared as above as well, he then had them at home indoors no problem adjusting to family/kids/grand kids life.

Patterdale, ignore them, sometimes humans interfere too much in things.
 

meesha

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Sorry not read most of the rubbish spouted, only your posts patterdale. All I have to say is... I would have a pup from you in a heartbeat...... And ...... Thank god you have used common sense with the pups, they sound happy, healthy and very very lucky, especially little stuck short tail !
 
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