How to commence allergy elimiation?

[Lintel]

As the title says really!

We have a sensitive bellied GSD who is currently on:
1 tin of chappie in AM
Arden Grange Large breed dry at night.

This has worked for just under a year, no explosive poo... upset belly etc etc. However has has had itchy skin and constant ear infections which the vet believes is allergy driven, not seasonal though as it has been all through the winter/summer.

Vet suggested it was best to try and eliminate likely causes before jumping to bloods/testing as it can be inaccurate.

I'm sure loads of others will have had similar issues to work through so just interested to see what worked for you/what foods/how you went about it and for how long?

Thanks!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

The first thing to do is to write a list of every ingredient in both feeds. I think I would then feed chicken or fish with either rice or potato for a week or more, whichever isn't in what you feed now, to see if the conditions improve.

 

[skinnydipper]

Lintel, I hope you don't mind me saving time by quoting one of my old posts.

The same advice applies whether the allergy affects the skin, ears or gut. You could use Purina Pro Plan HA or Royal Canin Anallergenic instead of a novel protein.

Hope this helps.

It doesn't matter if the food is cheap, expensive or "hypoallergenic", what matters is whether it has an ingredient your dog is allergic to. Chicken and rice are common allergens. The term hypoallergenic is meaningless. Hydrolysed veterinary diets are an option but the dog might still react to them, as mine did.

An elimination diet is a good place to start - feed a novel protein, one that ***** is unlikely to have eaten and feed only that until his stomach settles. Then add ONE ingredient, leave a couple of weeks before adding another ingredient. Done this way will you be able to identify which foods are culprits and exclude them permanently from his diet. Broadly speaking an allergy is an immediate reaction, a food intolerance can take a couple of weeks to produce a reaction but its effects to health are no less serious. When vets conduct the elimination diet they give the initial protein 6 weeks trial but usually results are seen before that but it can still take a matter of weeks before the problem food proteins are out of the system.

Blood tests for immunoglobulin reactions to food are useful and can instantly identify allergens and you then know not to add them to his diet. These tend to test for a limited number of allergens and my dog had two panels done with two different labs to cover a wider range of allergens. Although the tests are useful as a guide, they are not perfect and my dog tested negative for something that subsequently made him ill.

Some people think grain free is the answer but it is missing the point. Dogs can be allergic to any protein in any food. Pea and potato which are used as cheap fillers in dog food are both common allergens.

 

[AmyMay]

There was a very interesting thread on here a couple of weeks ago on a similar subject. Someone raised the issue of carbohydrates and how ensuring that these were at a minimum worked well for their dog (itching, yeast). So essentially a low carbohydrate high protein diet.

I’m trying this for both my dogs, both who chew (lick) and one who can get yeasty ears. So feeding Orijen six fish as an eye watering expensive trial.

But I would absolutely follow SKD’s advice re one protein (Turkey perhaps), but also look at things like beat which can be an irritant in my experience.

 

[skinnydipper]

To give you an idea of foods that dogs can be allergic to, these are the foods that were tested on the canine food allergy panels and scores given for both IgE and IgG

Beef
Milk
Lamb
Venison
Chicken
Duck
Egg
Turkey
Pork
Rabbit
Ostrich
White Fish
Blue Fish
Salmon
Tuna
Soya bean
Corn
Barley
Wheat
Oat
Millet
Rice
Potato
Sugar Beet
Carrot
Pea
Yeast

 

[AmyMay]

Another observation, and something I wasn’t aware of…..

My little white dog had a course of antibiotics a few months ago for a bad urine infection. All chewing stopped almost immediately (and hasn’t really returned). When I spoke to my vet about it she explained that some allergies are simply the body attacking itself (rather than environmental or food related). And the antibiotics can stop that reaction.

Thought that was quite interesting.

 

[druid]

The skin and blood tests for IgG are pretty useless for food allergies. They're most useful for airborne/environmental allergies. A diet trial is the best way to work out the allergens for your dog - you need to pick a completely novel protein to start with (insect is a good place to start!) or one of the hydrolysed protein diets. From there add in a novel ingredient every 6-8 weeks. Everyone in the house needs to be on board, no human food, no treats, no sneaking things!

 

[Andie02]

There was a very interesting thread on here a couple of weeks ago on a similar subject. Someone raised the issue of carbohydrates and how ensuring that these were at a minimum worked well for their dog (itching, yeast). So essentially a low carbohydrate high protein diet.

I’m trying this for both my dogs, both who chew (lick) and one who can get yeasty ears. So feeding Orijen six fish as an eye watering expensive trial.

But I would absolutely follow SKD’s advice re one protein (Turkey perhaps), but also look at things like beat which can be an irritant in my experience.

T'was me Amymay

We have gone through these problems with our dog. Our vet put her on steroids and then wanted to put her on apoquel, I decided no more drugs.

I have done mega research on this in the past and got my dog sorted, with much trial and error. Of course what works for one dog may not work for another. I wouldn't give either Purina or Royal Canin to my dog.

Vaccinations, wormers and flea treatments and even antibiotics, and drugs can in some dog's affect the immune system which can cause problems. I feed a high protein, low carb diet and only natural chews/treats. Avoid food with potatoes, sweet potatoes grains, rice, maize and sugar beet, carrots and most veg can cause an overload of yeast which causes the ear infections and itching. It is important to give a good probiotic daily, my dog also has Stinky Stuff's food supplement daily. Eventually I found that Orijen kibble and Forthglade Just Range wet food works for her, cooked meats, chicken, fish and eggs are all fine for her. Both of our dogs have the Orijen 6 fish or the Regional Red alternated daily for variation, Tundra is also fine for her but they only do a very large bag, or a very small bag, and our dogs are JRT's., I buy the 6kg bags. Even the Forthglade Complete Range will affect her and cause her to try to flush her own system out. Aromesse Pet Nat Dermacton products are brilliant for dealing with the itching and the yeasty ears. I very rarely need to use them now, the ear cleaner occasionally just to keep her ears clean, and very rarely she licks a paw. Her coat is lovely and silky. Avoid drugs like the plague if you possibly can, vets usually put them on drugs. Wash dog bedding with Nikwax Rug Wash and plenty of rinses. Non of 'your' biscuits, cakes, bread, toast and such like. Some people recommend raw feeding for these problems, I have never used raw. Orijen is high in protein and low in carbs. The Dog's Naturally magazine has some very useful and helpful info, though the lady does suggest feeding raw.
Whatever has caused the problems can take up to 8 weeks or even longer to leave the dog's system, getting them onto a good probiotic and the Stinky Stuff food supplement (i give it separately to the food) should help massively with this, with the help of Aromesse products and sorting the food.

@ Lintel I have looked at the ingredients of Arden Grange, there is potatoes, sweet potatoes and sugar beet, and only 24% protein. So many of the manufactured dog foods are full of cheap crap fillers.

 

[AmyMay]

What probiotic to you use @Andie02 ??

 

[CorvusCorax]

My dog who's skin and ears were very bad was reacting to the naturally occuring bacteria which lived on his own skin. Tree pollen was also thought to be an issue as he improved in kennels (we lived in a very heavily forested area).
He had to be on very low protein, grain free, fish based food, senior/old dog ranges suited him best, about 19%.
Incidentally my current grey dog, who also has a very dense, greasy coat (not long, it's almost a mole coat but he has lots of it) has something similar but in no way as serious.

 

[Andie02]

What probiotic to you use @Andie02 ??

Link not working for me just now ........I give both dogs The Petcare Factory Probiotics, we have found that one and a half tablets, each dog every day works best, they are about 11-12 kgs each dog. We give them broken in half, each half in a sliver of cheese.

I tried their Omega Skin and coat, it just didn't quite hack it for her at that time, but found the Stinky Stuff food supplement did and does.

 

[AmyMay]

Link not working for me just now ........I give both dogs The Petcare Factory Probiotics, we have found that one and a half tablets, each dog every day works best, they are about 11-12 kgs each dog. We give them broken in half, each half in a sliver of cheese.

I tried their Omega Skin and coat, it just didn't quite hack it for her at that time, but found the Stinky Stuff food supplement did and does.

Thanks. Your post on the other thread, and now today have been really interesting (and expensive! ??).

 

[Lintel]

Thank you all so far! Knew I could rely on this forum for some help! The vet was actually superb and didn't recommend drug use as a first port of call which is great as I would rather treat the problem than mask it, although he is undoubted better when on antibiotics and steroids as @Amymay stated!
Chappie is full of a host of crap but unfortunately... and fortunately was great for his belly so eliminate that takes a lot out! I will have a look at my dry options and stick with a single protein for morning breakfast opposed to anything tinned. We were on raw for 2 years before when he was a pup and it was great, however we now have a little nearly toddling person who our GSD adores so wouldn't want to risk any raw meat transfer as she is fascinated by his tongue at the moment!

 

[Lintel]

Going to have a look for the other thread too!
Would someone be so kind as to link it I cannot find the thread ?

 

[Andie02]

Thanks. Your post on the other thread, and now today have been really interesting (and expensive! ??).

Expensive compared to what........ crap /too many carbs in food causing itchy dogs and more and more ear infections........ and vet's bills ! I had never come across anything like this before, it was a nightmare to resolve.

 

[druid]

Thank you all so far! Knew I could rely on this forum for some help! The vet was actually superb and didn't recommend drug use as a first port of call which is great as I would rather treat the problem than mask it, although he is undoubted better when on antibiotics and steroids as @Amymay stated!
Chappie is full of a host of crap but unfortunately... and fortunately was great for his belly so eliminate that takes a lot out! I will have a look at my dry options and stick with a single protein for morning breakfast opposed to anything tinned. We were on raw for 2 years before when he was a pup and it was great, however we now have a little nearly toddling person who our GSD adores so wouldn't want to risk any raw meat transfer as she is fascinated by his tongue at the moment!

Zooplus have a good range of single protein/novel protein options at a reasonable cost (from a vet with a dog who is truly allergic to beef, chicken and wheat but also a complete fusspot!)

 

[skinnydipper]

antibiotics, and drugs can in some dog's affect the immune system which can cause problems.

Things to look out for. Check that flavourings (beef, chicken) in vet drugs and supplements are artificial not natural. Excipients could be corn or potato starch. Capsules could be bovine gelatin.

 

[druid]

Things to look out for. Check that flavourings (beef, chicken) in vet drugs and supplements are artificial not natural. Excipients could be corn or potato starch. Capsules could be bovine gelatin.

Finding a joint supplement with no beef/wheat/fish was a joyous excersion for exactly this reason

 

[Lintel]

Thanks again all! Insect dog food?! What on earth.... I have never heard of this!

I keep coming across the wilderness/wild dry food.... is it spamming me or does anyone have anything good to say for it?

 

[Andie02]

Going to have a look for the other thread too!
Would someone be so kind as to link it I cannot find the thread ?

It was I think Thistle's thread, Raw and Kibble mixed, new research 26th August