How to deal with a horse that uses spooking as an evasion?

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wench

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So horse has had another tantrum tonight, this time seemingly over a new bit I was testing that didn't meet with approval.

Generally she's an angel to ride, but on the odd occasion, like tonight the toys just come out of the pram, it's big style. There doesn't appear to be anything in particular that triggers it off, just when something doesn't appear to suit.

Ok so I don't mind that she didn't like the bit, but the stupid behaviour that came with it, spooking at everything possible, snorting, and generally ingoniring me is really starting to get my goat.

Went and got her old bit she likes, walked around nice and calm to try and help the situation, start asking for a bit of bend and leg yield, and toys came out of the pram again.

One corner of the school is a mounting block, normally goes past this perfectly fine, tonight every time past this body bent the wrong way to have a look at at, not going on the line I asked for, and generally everything to avoid doing what's "right".

Take her back to basics. Ask for walk, with inside bend so she can't spook, round on a circle, gradually getting more and more back to normal, then she goes past the mounting block perfectly fine five or six times. Then decides that it's scary again, shoves head in air and runs off.

Gets rude like this at dressage competiton at one venue. Does it on a number of different feeds, and she has a varied work plan.

How on earth do you deal with a horse that has such paddy whacks? I know horses aren't machines, and not every ride will be good, but she can't be having much fun acting like such a tit
 
Mine is generally a dream, but every now and then (Spring grass, but too much feed, seasons) she uses anything as an excuse to be a pain, then goes fine, then finds another reason further along the hack/ schooling to use as an excuse. Does happen v rarely do in lucky in that instance but when she does it (did it today as went out into fresh grazing) I am currently just riding through it, making sure I ask the same question consistently until I try the answer I want, it seems to work, but I hate riding it as she makes herself so uncomfortable to ride! During schooling I do what you do and go back to something I know she is capable and confident in doing before I attempt to move on. I think this is the right way to do it!
 
Either A ignore the spooking or keep going past scary object until we relax and stop being an eejit mostly by walking past on a lose rein or
Work away from scary object get focus back and move back towards keeping focus

is what I do with my idiot when he's in this mood. I did go to a fab clinic with the BHS where we were the demo horse for such things and basically I got taught some coping strategies and the important factor was when this happened to make sure you have control over stop, go and turning (in basic terms) then start to move to the object, it was really interesting and by Gemma Pearson from Dick Vets :) Repetition was the key so they understand that when you ask something they do it (so obvious I know sorry)
 
leflynn said:
Either A ignore the spooking or keep going past scary object until we relax and stop being an eejit mostly by walking past on a lose rein or
Work away from scary object get focus back and move back towards keeping focus

is what I do with my idiot when he's in this mood. I did go to a fab clinic with the BHS where we were the demo horse for such things and basically I got taught some coping strategies and the important factor was when this happened to make sure you have control over stop, go and turning (in basic terms) then start to move to the object, it was really interesting and by Gemma Pearson from Dick Vets :) Repetition was the key so they understand that when you ask something they do it (so obvious I know sorry)
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This is pretty much what I do with her, we go past the scary thing fine quite a few times. Then suddenly it's back to square 1 with her :(
 
Following to see responses ... Jazz's favourite tactic when he gets fed up is to throw in a massive spook at absolutely nothing. He's decked me at least twice doing it!
 
wench said:
So horse has had another tantrum tonight, this time seemingly over a new bit I was testing that didn't meet with approval.

Generally she's an angel to ride, but on the odd occasion, like tonight the toys just come out of the pram, it's big style. There doesn't appear to be anything in particular that triggers it off, just when something doesn't appear to suit.

Ok so I don't mind that she didn't like the bit, but the stupid behaviour that came with it, spooking at everything possible, snorting, and generally ingoniring me is really starting to get my goat.

Went and got her old bit she likes, walked around nice and calm to try and help the situation, start asking for a bit of bend and leg yield, and toys came out of the pram again.

One corner of the school is a mounting block, normally goes past this perfectly fine, tonight every time past this body bent the wrong way to have a look at at, not going on the line I asked for, and generally everything to avoid doing what's "right".

Take her back to basics. Ask for walk, with inside bend so she can't spook, round on a circle, gradually getting more and more back to normal, then she goes past the mounting block perfectly fine five or six times. Then decides that it's scary again, shoves head in air and runs off.

Gets rude like this at dressage competiton at one venue. Does it on a number of different feeds, and she has a varied work plan.

How on earth do you deal with a horse that has such paddy whacks? I know horses aren't machines, and not every ride will be good, but she can't be having much fun acting like such a tit
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Your not alone - my new mare is a bad spooker as in shot across the road when she saw a man with hedge cutter. Even in the school she spooks including when your about to get on and she hears something. She is now on a calmer and I just either usher on if lunging or ignore it and drive her forward and continue as we were so she gradually is getting heaps better.
 
Maybe not the advice you're looking for but I had a gelding like that, kept him for 5 long years until riding became such a chore I considered giving up. Sold him, bought another and haven't looked back...

Just saying this as you sound as frustrated as I did. It's a very expensive hobby not to enjoy it.
 
My TB has tantrum spooks when she doesn't want to work. She also does have genuine spooks as she is partially sighted. The difference between the two is that she will tense up before the tantrum spook and the genuine spook comes with no warning. When she has a tantrum spook she will also put her nose between her knees and canter off. To deal with this I keep pushing her on in canter which lifts her head until she starts to tire and then push her on a little more before I let her come back to trot or walk. After doing this about 3 times she realised that spooking only led to more work. When she has tantrum naps I will work her close to whatever she is napping at and keep changing what is being asked of her so that her mind is kept occupied until we are going past whatever it is she is napping at. Again she quickly realised that napping only led to more work.
There are days when she does totally throw her toys out of the pram, we have had half rears with spin, dear leaps on the spot, bucks, buck and spin. Each time I just make her work hard until she does what I ask and then I stop and giver her lots of verbal praise and a good wither scratch (which she loves!). She is a very clever mare and mostly knows the deal; do as asked and it is easy, have a tantrum and it is hard.
 
I would be increasing her ability to cope when things aren't as she likes them - sort of desensitising but throwing life's little challenges at her. Leave a headcollar rope trailing and if she steps on it, don't panic, just let her find out for herself that all she has to do is lift a foot. Ditto feed trugs, and any other simple to solve challenges you can chuck at her. If she panics, just stand back and wait for her to problem solve for herself. Works well for my very ungenerous horse - he knows to solve problems when he can and I don't come to his rescue.
 
My gelding is like this and has been for the 5 years I've had him. He is very lazy but really 'sharp' and the spooking is most definitely an evasion. This is a characteristic in his nature and while I will never be able to remove it, I've learned to deal with it. I liken him to a person with ADHA. Attention of a goldfish.

I always ignore it - even when we are teleporting sideways across the arena at warp speed 10. That happens far less frequently now.

Forward and properly off the leg. In the early days I resorted to getting off his back and cantering him around the arena for five minutes on each rein to get him thinking forward. It took alot of courage to do this in the
beginning - his spooking had rattled me - I had started to think 'backward' and so I rode like that - he'd won!

Keep the work as varied as possible. Constant transitions, changes of rein. Pop over a few poles, back to flat work. He starts to enjoy himself and forgets to spook.

I don;t think you can ever really cure a spooky horse but you can work with it and make riding enjoyable. When I first got my horse on an average 30 minute ride we'd have around 10-15 spooking episodes and I found it wearing. I had to look hard at my riding and really brush up on my techniques. He now makes me smile.

Good luck.
 
Shoulder in or leg yield with the head flexed away from the offending object .
I do this with my horses from the very start .
I have one who now does it himself as soon as he sees an offending object.
If they use it as a evasion it works as all they have to do is work harder if they are unsure the look away aspect is what works .
 
Shoulder in or leg yield with the head flexed away from the offending object .
I do this with my horses from the very start .
I have one who now does it himself as soon as he sees an offending object.
If they use it as a evasion it works as all they have to do is work harder if they are unsure the look away aspect is what works .
 
My youngster is (so far!) admirably non-spooky, for which I give regular thanks, as my last horse was just the opposite!

He had a "genuine spook" that came out of nowhere, but fortunately wasn't too hard to sit on, and a "bored/frustrated" spook, which came without warning but was harder to stay on. He didn't really spook from temper, so my experiences may not be totally relevant, but what worked for us was:
- getting him interested and in front of my leg
- shoulder in past anything he was pretending to be afraid of
- lots of transitions, changes of direction, different shapes and school movements to get him focused on me rather than the environment
- this was what I found hardest, but staying loose and softening my hand into the spook really helped in not making an issue of it and avoiding turning it into an argument.

With him, if it became an argument there was a reasonable chance I wouldn't win it, so if he started making a fuss about a particular area or object I would work in another area of the school until he was soft, listening and in front of my leg, and then gradually approach by stealth while asking him to focus on a particular movement, and then he would forget about making a fuss because his attention was otherwise engaged.

He did improve a lot over the time I had him, and became almost bomb proof out hacking, so there is hope! Good luck with yours.

Good luck!
 
I have had my naughty spooker for nearly 8 years now. He'd do as you descirbe - spooking at random items as an evasion in the arena when he didnt want to work. If I ignored it he got worse - he'd spook, drop his shoulder and roll me off onto the ground, or he'd spook then stick his head between his legs and bronc! In the first couple of years he totally destroyed my confidence and I got to the point where I was scared to ride and ready to sell him. He's naturally quite lazy but also highly opinionated and a complete waste of a talented animal! He started napping too to the point where he actually demolished a wall!
Anyway eventually I stopped listening to the 'experts' on the yard who kept saying he was too quirky a horse and I was a terrible rider. I put a neck strap on him so that I had something to grab, and somehow found the courage to give him a jolly good smack and a shouting at when he did it, and then send him forward into 10m circles, serpentines, upward transitions, leg yield etc etc . After a while he realised that misbehaving meant blooming hard work. His schooling got loads better too and I was actually able to jump without coming off...
He had a relapse when he went out on loan when I was pregnant but as soon as I get on he knows he has to behave - we have reached a mutual agreement! He's an absolute diamond now although he's retired to happy hacking. He's the best behaved horse on our yard and utterly bombproof.
 
Gazen said:
My TB has tantrum spooks when she doesn't want to work. She also does have genuine spooks as she is partially sighted. The difference between the two is that she will tense up before the tantrum spook and the genuine spook comes with no warning. When she has a tantrum spook she will also put her nose between her knees and canter off. To deal with this I keep pushing her on in canter which lifts her head until she starts to tire and then push her on a little more before I let her come back to trot or walk. After doing this about 3 times she realised that spooking only led to more work. When she has tantrum naps I will work her close to whatever she is napping at and keep changing what is being asked of her so that her mind is kept occupied until we are going past whatever it is she is napping at. Again she quickly realised that napping only led to more work.
There are days when she does totally throw her toys out of the pram, we have had half rears with spin, dear leaps on the spot, bucks, buck and spin. Each time I just make her work hard until she does what I ask and then I stop and giver her lots of verbal praise and a good wither scratch (which she loves!). She is a very clever mare and mostly knows the deal; do as asked and it is easy, have a tantrum and it is hard.
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I got asked to ride a horse because it wasn't getting enough work and since mine was laid up I was happy to do so - until I found out why it wasn't getting enough exercise! It turned out it had decked just about everyone who got on it, including the owner. It would be fine for 15 minutes in the arena, then drop a shoulder and spin away. Yes it got me off. I went and put my spurs on then made the blasted thing work like it never had before, constantly changing what I asked so it was so busy wondering where its feet were going next it didn't have a chance to try to dump me again. It was fine with me after that except on the one occasion it decided it had hacked enough and tried to spin for home. It got a stinging bottom and I won the battle.
 
Mine certainly gets made to work very hard when she's having a tantrum day. So she will probably behave for the next month or so.

When I'm on her, I do get a "how dare you" attitude, and I make sure she gets a good work out, but then when I've got off I feel really awful as I don't want to be like that with her, I want to be my nice self!??
 
wench said:
Mine certainly gets made to work very hard when she's having a tantrum day. So she will probably behave for the next month or so.

When I'm on her, I do get a "how dare you" attitude, and I make sure she gets a good work out, but then when I've got off I feel really awful as I don't want to be like that with her, I want to be my nice self!??
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The last bit made me want to post, as others had already given you good advice.

Topaz is a very accomplished spook'er nobber'abouter :D, so you need to work her hard to get her to listen. She needs to be kept continueously on the aids or she is a ******. We are trying to modify her behaviour but still have to accept that she is super reactive.

But I changed my mindset of it being her trying to evade and me needing to bully/force her into work, to the fact when left to her own thoughts she over-reacts to everything. So rather than it being me needing to work her hard or force her to work, really it's me holding her hand at every step and giving her only me to listen to. It's made me ride better as when I'm telling her what to do (rather than unintentionally sitting as a passenger), she doesn't spook. If I have a drop of contact (not a giving the rein for a stretch but me not being 100% in the contact) or take my leg off (instead of it always being on her side, not actively 'on' but just there), if gives her the chance to give her own whirlwind of thoughts a chance to breakthrough :D.

So a change of perspective made me understand her better and how I should be riding her. She is so much better having someone take charge (in a nice but strong way), than being left to her own devices. It also meant I stopped getting cross/frustated as much, and so my riding became more black and white to her and so everything improved.

Don't get me wrong she is still a complete wrong'un sometimes and when I don't have my instructor there I'm not as effective, but the shift in thoughts has really made me more focussed and positive about schooling her.

Sorry if that's all complete waffle to you :D.

x x
 
wench said:
Mine certainly gets made to work very hard when she's having a tantrum day. So she will probably behave for the next month or so.

When I'm on her, I do get a "how dare you" attitude, and I make sure she gets a good work out, but then when I've got off I feel really awful as I don't want to be like that with her, I want to be my nice self!??
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You can't be like that, especially with a mare. If you find yourself getting worked up then stop. Breathe. Give her a pat. Collect your thoughts. Start over.
Make sure you are relaxed and you aren't transmitting tension down the rein.

What you need to do is find a core set of exercises that she knows, can do and enjoys. Then you can use these to diffuse a situation and get her back on side.

I have an incredibly good dressage mare who I think is awesome. But I have learnt over time strategies to get her working for me. Top tip is never bully or get frustrated!
 
wench said:
So horse has had another tantrum tonight, this time seemingly over a new bit I was testing that didn't meet with approval.

Generally she's an angel to ride, but on the odd occasion, like tonight the toys just come out of the pram, it's big style. There doesn't appear to be anything in particular that triggers it off, just when something doesn't appear to suit.

Ok so I don't mind that she didn't like the bit, but the stupid behaviour that came with it, spooking at everything possible, snorting, and generally ingoniring me is really starting to get my goat.

Went and got her old bit she likes, walked around nice and calm to try and help the situation, start asking for a bit of bend and leg yield, and toys came out of the pram again.

One corner of the school is a mounting block, normally goes past this perfectly fine, tonight every time past this body bent the wrong way to have a look at at, not going on the line I asked for, and generally everything to avoid doing what's "right".

Take her back to basics. Ask for walk, with inside bend so she can't spook, round on a circle, gradually getting more and more back to normal, then she goes past the mounting block perfectly fine five or six times. Then decides that it's scary again, shoves head in air and runs off.

Gets rude like this at dressage competiton at one venue. Does it on a number of different feeds, and she has a varied work plan.

How on earth do you deal with a horse that has such paddy whacks? I know horses aren't machines, and not every ride will be good, but she can't be having much fun acting like such a tit
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My horse was exactly as you described, one session he shied three times and I mean HUGH SHIES into the centre of the school from the track. Two of which I sat, one I just about sat. On hacks he was a nightmare and four years would do spins clockwise. I used to think it was just luck that he never got hit by a car. I think looking back, he would never have shied had a car been passing, it was more of an evasion.

Before I moved him from the yard he was at for 10 years I put him on Magic Calmer. I never thought it would work, but I was desperate having tried magnesium supplements that had cost the earth and had not worked. After about 10-14 days I noticed an improvement. He's been on it for about 20 months now, a large scoop per day in his feed. I have taken him off it twice and each time within about 7-10 days he's revereted back to how he was.

I firmly believe this has worked for my horse.

They yard he used to be on had very lush grazing (was ex dairy herd) and I think the grass had a lot to do with his spooking as well.

In fact quite literally the only 'major' spook he has done since I left the yard in April 2014 was last week at dressage when he did a full on spook and has ended up pulling his suspensory branch! The scale of this spook was the same as the spooks he did prior to the Magic.
 
I too had a spooky horse but frankly, in the end I got fed up with it and sold him with full disclosure. In fact, we set up the circumstances for the new would be owner once she had tried him a couple of times (because of course, he didn't put a foot wrong and made us out to be liars). So we had hack him alone, work without us etc and then he showed her what he could do. It didn't bother her as she thought he was generally fab. What I had to do was to never, ever take him for granted and never, ever let him do the thinking for us at any point. He had to be focused on me at all times and I was always asking him to do something, do some work etc. As soon as the control shifted, he would spook. So, there were no big beating up sessions, no tantrums, just the realisation that I could never relax or drop my guard as he would take immediate advantage.

I absolutely love my new horse. His idea of spooking is to go sideways and then stop. He is considerably more generous and easier to read than my previous boy!
 
wench said:
When I'm on her, I do get a "how dare you" attitude, and I make sure she gets a good work out, but then when I've got off I feel really awful as I don't want to be like that with her, I want to be my nice self!??
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I call it tough love - she'll love you all the more if there are clear boundaries. :)

ETA: If mine is being a b*gger I won't chat to him whilst riding (I usually gabble away to him) and withold any pats or rubs until he behaves. I feel mean but it does work.
 
You do have to decide as Luci07 say's whether to accept their nature (not accept the spooking) is what it is, or decide if actually you want something else to ride! I don't really think you can stop a reactive horse from ever spooking again, but can give them better coping strategies and get them to listen to you more.

I did at one point think sod it I'm not competing her anymore as it's not fun, but we got through that point. I do have the added relieve that she's not mine and I don't have to be the one to exercise her if I don't want to, so I don't need to sell to have something else to ride.

Also what they do when spooking makes a big difference, Topaz doesn't often do either her spin and flee manoeuvre or buckaroo anymore, but does more tense, stop, snort and bounce these days. Less dramatic but no less disruptive when trying to school. I also generally feel very confident about riding her and being able to sit her spooking, so luckily she doesn't break my confidence, and also the fact she has got better the longer we've had her gives me hope and something to hold onto.

Doesn't stop the fact that my youngster is so level headed to ride being such an awesome relief though :D

x x
 
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Share horse is generally an angel but will have moments of this, particularly in one arena we go to with riding club. There were donkeys in a paddock at one end of the school once, you see :rolleyes: He will do it at home too if he doesn't really want to work - often when my instructor's there as he knows it'll be hard.

He will spend 5 minutes at the start of a session being a spooky twit. I ignore him and work away from whatever's causing the issue. I then gradually work our way back to the problem area. He'll then work nicely for a while but when he starts to get tired it becomes an issue again. At this point I'll avoid the area again, get a minute or two of nice work out of him and finish. He has zero adrenalin so once he's tired there's nothing left in the tank and pushing him is futile. He's 20 and been the same for 15 years so we won't change him now!

If she really is just being silly making her work is fine, but if she's telling you something else make sure you're ready to listen to her.
 
You just have to not get sucked into it! Don't pander to it, but you can't get cross either. The best solution I have found is if you feel them begin to spook, distract them with an exercise. If you're in a test, you could do a very subtle shoulder in, or just ask for a bit more inside bend. Basically, don't let them fall out of rhythm, don't let them look at the scary thing, and try and take their mind off it by changing things up. Make sure you stay relaxed and loose throughout or they will take it to mean the thing is actually scary :rolleyes: It really helps to have them in front of the leg, you have to be quite strict about this as it's so easy to settle for 'good enough', and if you let it get to the sucking back stage, it's really hard to get them off the leg again without a bit of a 'moment', which isn't ideal in front of a judge :p

Also you really do have to pick your fights. If my guy doesn't like a bit I don't persevere - more hassle than it's worth! :p We must have tried about a hundred over the years. If yours is fussy/stuffy like mine, I've found these to be firm favourites;

http://www.redpostequestrian.co.uk/...currency=GBP&gclid=CLPlubG-msoCFUuNGwoddMUP7g

http://www.redpostequestrian.co.uk/...currency=GBP&gclid=CID1q7O-msoCFVKZGwodr8MPKg

(plastic bradoon snaffles)

Also anything by Herm Sprenger dramatically improves his way of going, though at a price :O

He's in this atm;

http://www.thehorsebitshop.co.uk/product.php?xProd=1253

But also goes well in this;

http://www.thehorsebitshop.co.uk/product.php?xProd=192
 
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Currently in a rocking s snaffle which is by far the best bit for her.

You can be nicey nicey with her, and not ask for to much/keep mind away from the scary thing, but she will just find another excuse for an evasion when she's in a tantrum :(
 
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