How to deal with a horse whos reaction is to turn and run?

[deoni]

My horse is rising 7 and never hacked alone until I got him when he was 5. Finally got him going alone recently as hes very nappy and used to take hours to leave! He is very spooky alone (ok with another horse or person) and his reaction is to spin and run especially in traffic, which is why i havent been able to tackle him going out alone much, but even on the one offroad track he will spin and literally flat out run with me! I can't decide if its a new way of napping or hes actually scared, but he is overly spooky at things he wouldn't usually be spooky at eg a log!

Is this just as he is nervy and will grow out of it as he gets more confident? Is there anything I can do? I always turn him back round and carry on as normal, he doesnt scare me so I don't think I am giving any bad vibes or anything.

edited to add that the whole time i have had him he has been hacked out with a bombproof horse most of the time or someone walking.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Try him on mag ox?

Long line him (wear hat and gloves) easier to send him on and prevent spinning.

Tow him from another horse.

Work him laterally and in an outline to make it harder for him to get away from you.

 

[Littlelegs]

When you hack with others, have you tried keeping him a length in front for all/part of the ride? And if so how is he?

 

[deoni]

When you hack with others, have you tried keeping him a length in front for all/part of the ride? And if so how is he?

Well that's the thing, the first year I had him he wouldnt go in front of anything and would rear up etc if you tried. 2nd year I really worked on it and got him in front on the way home, but on the way out he still won't go in front without a battle. He won't go if hes really far infront. A few times I have made a point to leave the other horses and go a different way and meet up which he does after a while (like everything!)

The first time he took off home, a dog ran out of a bush and as we were already on the way home I stupidly carried on when I stopped him running. Every other time as been on the way out and he spins, which makes me think it's a learnt thing to go home, however there is no doubt he is nervous aswell.

 

[deoni]

Try him on mag ox?

Long line him (wear hat and gloves) easier to send him on and prevent spinning.

Tow him from another horse.

Work him laterally and in an outline to make it harder for him to get away from you.

I might try him on mag ox, hes quite stressy in general so could do with it! I couldn't long line him as i wouldnt be able to hold him, hes really strong! I might give it a go in the field and see

 

[TigerTail]

Work him laterally and in an outline to make it harder for him to get away from you.

Exactly what do you mean by this?!


OP agree with trying magnesium, also adding salt to his food, they dont get enough from salt licks.

Can someone walk out with you whilst you ride? Walking my nutter out in hand has really helped with her over reactiveness.

 

[deoni]

Exactly what do you mean by this?!


OP agree with trying magnesium, also adding salt to his food, they dont get enough from salt licks.

Can someone walk out with you whilst you ride? Walking my nutter out in hand has really helped with her over reactiveness.

Hi , yes someone has walked out with me the entire time ive had him, except the odd ocassions where i brave going out alone He is fine with someone walking as the first year thats mostly all we did. It's only completely on his own he does this or if theres something actually spooky like a biker

 

[Littlelegs]

He just sounds as though he isn't able to take confidence from the rider yet when he's unsure, & needs another horse there for reassurance, same as a horse new to hacking. I'd continue with keeping him infront on the way home, & for a few strides here & there elsewhere on familiar stretches. When at all possible, ride circular loops, rather than suddenly turning back on yourself so he can't properly tell when he's turning home. Once he'll happily do the last 100m home, make it 120m & so on. And anywhere from halfway round, let him take the lead for two or three strides at a time, again gradually increasing the amount of strides & how often you take the lead. I wouldn't get the lead horse to stop & overtake, rather you could both trot & you slowly lengthen the stride & overtake. Or coming through a gate, get the other rider to turn slightly so you go ahead. So its accidental he ends up infront, rather than a confrontation. Once he's happily infront for all but the first 5mins you start riding loops away from the other on familiar routes. The main thing is to do it gradually & without him feeling he needs to fight. If you can, longline at home, round 'scary' stuff, so he gets used to the idea of his leader, & therefore his confidence, coming from behind, rather than infront or alongside.

 

[JillA]

Which way does he turn (they almost always turn the same way)? Be ready when he does and carry on the turn until he is facing the way he started, using your rein and your leg. Wasted energy, not something they like doing, but you have to be ready and catch the turn before he is in full gallop - he can't turn then. And if he does plant, assess his heartbeat and respiration to see whether he is genuinely scared. If he is, let him look, don't pressure him so long as his heart rate is raised. Once it slows, indicating he has got his head round whatever it was, ask for forward in the least confrontational way you can. I have this problem and rather than badger him and put too much pressure on, which would result in a rear, I just irritate the hello ut of him with my heels. Rattle rattle rattle until he offers forward then instantly reward with ceasing the irritation.
Gradually he will learn that a) he will end up having to go where you are asking, so the easier he can make it the less effort it will cost him and b) if something does worry him you will allow him to check it out.
Good luck, it is a scary thing when they do that - fortunately mine was half way down a huge stubble field so I could let him run then pull him up and start over.

 

[Littlelegs]

Ps, when I say other horse, if he's happy to follow someone on foot, then the same applies to hacking out with a person instead of a horse.

 

[deoni]

Thanks I will make sure I do those things. He is smart though and changes his strides and ignores me so he is always slightly behind the other horse, even if we try to trick him! He sometimes has a heartbeat, so I do know hes scared but other times he must be trying it on, hes not as bad on the way home! I just feel after 2 years babying him im getting a bit sick of it so been doing more with him. I remember the first time we got him walking in front and even have a picture, so he has come a long way seeing as we used to sit for an hour even with another horse to even set off!!

 

[ladyt25]

Right. I am no expert by any means with horses like this asI have never had one who wanted to leg it! However, I backed my own youngster last year (bought him as a 15 mth old) and I had help on occasion on the basics.

One of the first and most logical things this lady who helped me said to me was that a horse is a flight animal (which of course we all know). Therefore, it's natural reaction is of course to turn and run. That is an automatic response and the fact is you have to control the flight response. We did this with my youngster with initial ground work. i won't go in to the details of it but blimey has it worked! It's just working logically with the horse. A horse is not clever, it is not scheming and it is not "having you on". All the horse is doing is reacting to a natural instinct and, in order to instill confidence you need to combat that respinse and control it. I strongly suggest you get some help from someone who understands what needs to be achieved.

I amnow hacking out my youngster he's (4 in May) and yes, he gets spooky and scared but the ground work has helped loads and not once has he ever tried to turn and run so far.

I don't know where you are but the lady who helped me is called Sarah Ussher and is based in Yorkshire. It may be worth googling her and if you are in the area getting in touch but, if not you could always contacther and ask if she knows of anyone near you who trains in the same way. I would not say it's NH style or anything specific like that but it is common sense I guess, taking in to account how a horses' brain works.

 

[deoni]

Right. I am no expert by any means with horses like this asI have never had one who wanted to leg it! However, I backed my own youngster last year (bought him as a 15 mth old) and I had help on occasion on the basics.

One of the first and most logical things this lady who helped me said to me was that a horse is a flight animal (which of course we all know). Therefore, it's natural reaction is of course to turn and run. That is an automatic response and the fact is you have to control the flight response. We did this with my youngster with initial ground work. i won't go in to the details of it but blimey has it worked! It's just working logically with the horse. A horse is not clever, it is not scheming and it is not "having you on". All the horse is doing is reacting to a natural instinct and, in order to instill confidence you need to combat that respinse and control it. I strongly suggest you get some help from someone who understands what needs to be achieved.

I amnow hacking out my youngster he's (4 in May) and yes, he gets spooky and scared but the ground work has helped loads and not once has he ever tried to turn and run so far.

I don't know where you are but the lady who helped me is called Sarah Ussher and is based in Yorkshire. It may be worth googling her and if you are in the area getting in touch but, if not you could always contacther and ask if she knows of anyone near you who trains in the same way. I would not say it's NH style or anything specific like that but it is common sense I guess, taking in to account how a horses' brain works.

Thanks, I have had trainers come and ride him and it made no difference! I have got him from refusing to leave the yard, to walking out with little to no arguments and even trot/canters away from home, so I think it's going OK! I just need to work on this, he never ever runs away from home and sometimes when he stops he isn't bothered so I can't help but think he is sometimes trying it on.

 

[Honey08]

While I agree with a lot of what is being said, I think, to some extent, he just knows that he doesn't have to! I would be inclined to be a bit more forceful and push him a bit more. Starting when out with others and his refusing to go past - he is not going to turn and run from his friends, so that would be the point to start perhaps?

My husband's horse used to turn and run as a four/five year old. He wasn't particularly scared, it was a bit of a power struggle - "you can't stop me!" type thing. I would pull him up, turn him round, give him a good tap behind my leg, and make him go back again. Some rides this would happen several times, he is 17h and a big thing! Nowadays he is good as gold. He knows it is not allowed and that if he is told to go somewhere he has to.. I think its either a question of confidence or respect when horses do this - if its confidence you have to be more gentle in getting them over it, if the horse doesn't think you're the leader and doesn't really respect you, you need to be a little more forceful..

 

[deoni]

While I agree with a lot of what is being said, I think, to some extent, he just knows that he doesn't have to! I would be inclined to be a bit more forceful and push him a bit more. Starting when out with others and his refusing to go past - he is not going to turn and run from his friends, so that would be the point to start perhaps?

My husband's horse used to turn and run as a four/five year old. He wasn't particularly scared, it was a bit of a power struggle - "you can't stop me!" type thing. I would pull him up, turn him round, give him a good tap behind my leg, and make him go back again. Some rides this would happen several times, he is 17h and a big thing! Nowadays he is good as gold. He knows it is not allowed and that if he is told to go somewhere he has to.. I think its either a question of confidence or respect when horses do this - if its confidence you have to be more gentle in getting them over it, if the horse doesn't think you're the leader and doesn't really respect you, you need to be a little more forceful..

Thank you, he is definitely nervous alone and very spooky as has never done it before, but I think after the time he genuinely spooked and ran he has learnt that he could do it! I will keep at it alone at least one a week and find someone to hack out with who will wait with me while we get him in front!

Forgot to say, he also does it in the school if he gets spooked he will turn and flat out take off, sometimes to the gate/or that direction and then slams on the breaks? When I write it out it does sound like he's trying it on. It doesn't help he's nervous in traffic and strong!

 

[ladyt25]

Thank you, he is definitely nervous alone and very spooky as has never done it before, but I think after the time he genuinely spooked and ran he has learnt that he could do it! I will keep at it alone at least one a week and find someone to hack out with who will wait with me while we get him in front!

Forgot to say, he also does it in the school if he gets spooked he will turn and flat out take off, sometimes to the gate/or that direction and then slams on the breaks? When I write it out it does sound like he's trying it on. It doesn't help he's nervous in traffic and strong!

I think you do need to work on the ground with this - have him in the school, even set up a load of 'spooky' objects you know he will react to. Lead him round, do lots of halting, backing up etc etc. When/if he reacts do not let him rush forward/backwards/spin. Make him halt, look at the object and then walk him towards it. If he tries to again, just repeat this. Then continue BUT if he tries to rush away (ie scary thing chasing me!) then again, halt him. It's about controlling this immediate reaction. Also, work on slowing him down - if he's one that walks quite fast then work (again in the school) at slowing this down. I don't necessarily think getting instructors to ride him is going to work in the first instance as getting control of the flight response on the ground is the key to start with.

Honestly, it does work. My youngster was very spooky to start with and would shoot forwards/sideways when i lead him but after just one session of being taught the reasons why and how to control it, I implemented what I learnt and he stopped reacting in the same way. He may still spook a little or have a look but, he now listens to me. If needs be I will halt him, let him take it in (investigate the scary thing if needs be) and then we move on. His spooking is getting less and less each time I take him out.

 

[Firewell]

Hee hee my bubba boy used to do this when I first got him, norty poo. Not at traffic but just at the odd thing that would take his fancy. He's an ex-racer and apparently he had a habbit of doing it on the gallops, everyone else would jump off and go and he would spin dump his jockey and run in the opposite direction!
It never bothered me for some reason, maybe because I never found it that unseating. I got quite good at catching him mid spin and swinging him back to face the way we were going again and then i'd kick on and off we would go at a spanking trot but at least in the right direction! He never would try it more than 2 or 3 times in a row. He grew out of it eventually. If he see's anything he's not too sure about now he'll just stop and look for a moment instead before plucking up courage and walking or trotting past. He knows not to spin, it's pointless as he has never got away with it. I don't mind if he stands to look at something for a short moment, he's only keeping us safe, I give him a pat and and wait untill he has had a look and then I give him a nudge and he walks or trots on. He's a good boy now .
I don't think mine did it to be nappy btw as he would frequently do it on the way home and even with other horses in front. It was more of a reaction.

 

[el_Snowflakes]

Does he always spin round the same way? If so be sure to carry a whip on that side so he cannot drop out through that shoulder.

 

[Mongoose11]

Are you comfortable with fast work on him? Provided you are and can get him to a location to make this suitable how about allowing him to go when he wants to and instead of trying to stop push him on and on under your terms. If he wasnts to gallop you gallop and when he doesnt want to anymore you keep him in that gallop until you decide. The work after the 'flight' becomes harder work than the going on would be! Old school but I have heard of it working.

 

[deoni]

Are you comfortable with fast work on him? Provided you are and can get him to a location to make this suitable how about allowing him to go when he wants to and instead of trying to stop push him on and on under your terms. If he wasnts to gallop you gallop and when he doesnt want to anymore you keep him in that gallop until you decide. The work after the 'flight' becomes harder work than the going on would be! Old school but I have heard of it working.

I tried this in the school when he took off, but when he decided he was done he stopped dead and i tried to get him to canter again but he flat out refused! he is so naughty. Last 2 days have been out fine so hopefully he will keep getting better and I will try this again out on a ride!

 

[Norfolk Pie]

I tried this in the school when he took off, but when he decided he was done he stopped dead and i tried to get him to canter again but he flat out refused! he is so naughty. Last 2 days have been out fine so hopefully he will keep getting better and I will try this again out on a ride!

I've never really understood the idea of pushing a horse on that's reacted to its instincts, which are designed to keep the poor creature alive?!
You don't want him to gallop off - so why on earth would you tell him to go, when he's going? Simply so he learns that being scared of something and whipping round leads to him being galloped away from it, until he's exhausted - but thank god the scary thing didn't get me.

Allowing a fresh horse forward, (as opposed to hanging on to it) can be a useful tool in getting it to settle. But the above is hardly an intelligent training system. Poor lad sounds as though he's not got enough confidence to cope with what's being asked of him. Which is unfortunate for you if you want him to be doing y, but if he's still stuck at x in the alphabet, just getting him to go isnt going to help. I'd ditto ladyt, and suggest back to basics until he's coping. I'd also wonder if your trainers who've been riding him have been working to solve the problem, (ie formulating a plan to develop his confidence) or have just felt that they need to get him out / past things? From experience, they are widely different approaches. One will help long term, one won't

 

[deoni]

I've never really understood the idea of pushing a horse on that's reacted to its instincts, which are designed to keep the poor creature alive?!
You don't want him to gallop off - so why on earth would you tell him to go, when he's going? Simply so he learns that being scared of something and whipping round leads to him being galloped away from it, until he's exhausted - but thank god the scary thing didn't get me.

Allowing a fresh horse forward, (as opposed to hanging on to it) can be a useful tool in getting it to settle. But the above is hardly an intelligent training system. Poor lad sounds as though he's not got enough confidence to cope with what's being asked of him. Which is unfortunate for you if you want him to be doing y, but if he's still stuck at x in the alphabet, just getting him to go isnt going to help. I'd ditto ladyt, and suggest back to basics until he's coping. I'd also wonder if your trainers who've been riding him have been working to solve the problem, (ie formulating a plan to develop his confidence) or have just felt that they need to get him out / past things? From experience, they are widely different approaches. One will help long term, one won't

I don't know, but in the school he is definitely just trying it on! Needs more work out though, but originally people told me to hack out with another horse which we have done for over a year to give him confidence! Theres so many things to try so will definitely get busy!