How to get a horse OUT of an outline..?...

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-ruby

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Yes, OUT of an outline. So generally unlike many riders I'm more of a hippy dippy owner, and believe in all that natural horsemanship lark.
This is a new thing to me but I'm thinking of buying one or two very 'outlined' and heavily schooled chaps and bring them back to the horse they should be.
I've been searching everywhere for how to get a horse out of an outline, but can't find info anywhere; guess I'm alone in wanting that. So the horse that I would get would be very, very servilely forced into working in an outline. I realise many many horses can stop working like this simply by loosening contact, but how can you show a horse, previously being punished for brining his head up, that this is not what is needed of them?
No crit as to what I'm doing, I don't care if working in an outline doesn't hurt them, blah, blah. This is what I'm doing.
 
Join the club, I dont have my horse in an outline, he has no back or other issues, and I am happy to take up sufficient contact to bring him together, but am not a fan of any extreme work.
I think you will be ok to ride him as you usually do and he will adapt.
 
There is a dfifference between encouraging a horse to work correctly in a natural outline that really helps him work efficiently and kindly on his body, and working so much in an outline that a horse becomes fixed. You're simply looking for the horse to take the contact out and down and that is taught by many classical dressage "schools". There is great discussion on UltimateDressage.com, and I personally love Erik Herbermann's approach which uses work on the buckle as a major educational and relaxational tool.

Horses going around with their heads exactly where they want them will not alway suse their backs from choice, and will suffer from not carrying you correctly.
 
Not that I ride in an outline, or ride any horses that do, I'm all for the natural look too :)

This isn't anything against people who do work in an outline though!
I once witnessed a 'friend' YANK Ned's head down and force him to stay like that for a good 10mins. He was obviously distressed, he's 10 and has never done anything like that, he would get a jab in the mouth for trying to get out of it :( I ride happy hackers, not dressage horses!!
That 'friend' has very weird ideas about horses.
 
ok working in a natural outline - the horse working naturally from behind through the back and in to the bridle to an outline is an amazing feeling but it should never ever be forced but an acceptance to your legs weight and soft soft hands but a horse should also know how to relax go long and low but stilll working from behind - I hate seeing see saw hands in the show ring whilst the horse/pony is strung out - a hrse working in an a true and natural outline is listening and responsive - ok t encourage a horse to go low and long sit in sadlle and lenthen your arms till look like a monkey - people will laugh but told this many years ago - encourage the horse to find the bit with your hands low either side of withers but please please dont be put off working your horse in an outline just an outline that comes from good steady schooling with thought to how the horse is working :) I also have to encourage my lass to work low as previous owner dragged head in with no thought of the back end - mmmmm now we have a good forward pace with good rythum and so more relaxed in poll neck and mouth :)
 
my gelding is much more balanced and happy when he is on the contact. If i let him go around with his head in the air he ends up all over the place and gets very tense through his back.

Yesterday i took his saddle off and rode him bareback on the buckle in an outline. He was relaxed and content
 
well as you say if indeed the horse has been 'forced' into an outline then with time it should realise that bringing its head back up will not mean punishment and so will relax into this upwards position :rolleyes:. In all fairness though whilst some horses are strapped into an outline many of us use the horses natural shape and just encourage them to carry themselves it is still working in an outline but with a relaxed contact they will either continue to work in a rounded shape or stretch their heads down if they are conformationally built so they find this comfiest :). The outline should be a comfy place for them to carry themselves and balance, and indeed they are not worked continually into an outline even when DR schooling with any decent rider let alone out hacking and other disciplines. If indeed as you say his head has been strapped into an 'unnatural' position then with time he will adjust to whatever is comfiest for him.


Agree with paint me proud I rode my mare bareback with no reins/light contact, with light contact she carried herself in a lovely loose outline when I dropped them completely she stretched down for a while in the trot then raised her head so that she was in a loose outline again as she obviously found this the easiest place to balance :)
 
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Yes I had someone pulled my boys head down and blocked. him I don't know what instructor taught that! she was very strong and had had loads of lessons, her own horse was a warmblood and worked in an outline, I have seen young staff at the riding school doing it out hacking, what is that about, poor things.
 
Good god, now I have heard everything. May I ask why you think a 'good outline' is an undesirable thing? Or may I ask why you think that ALL of the world's Equestrian Olympic riders and trainers are wrong in thinking it is a good thing?

I am not even going to waste my time trying to explain it - go and do some proper research before you are accused of being a troll.
 
-ruby said:
No crit as to what I'm doing, I don't care if working in an outline doesn't hurt them, blah, blah. This is what I'm doing.
Click to expand...

Do you care that by not asking the horse to work up to even a very light contact/slightly rounded outline - that he will be hollowing his back and inverting his neck - which will make carrying you rather an uncomfortable experience.

As an experiment - get onto your hands and knees, drop your head, and bring your spine upwards until your back looks like a humpbacked bridge. You'll feel a lovely stretch over your "topline". Really great exercise for tight tense muscles. If you have someone available to push down lightly on your back - do so.

Now bring your head up and drop your back - keep it up for as long as you can - and you will start to ache. Get your helper to push down on your back again

Can you see where I'm going with this?
 
See my recent thread about my "draw reins horse" ... He works in a forced outline. He's quite happy about it, it's how he's been trained and his muscles are built like that now. I have followed the advice on that thread, specifically lunging him with nothing but a cavesson and am pleased to report he is carrying himself more and more through his entire back and no longer looks like there is a break near the poll ... He swings through his back and is moving more naturally.

I assume this is the type of work you are talking about? Turning a "forced" outline into a natural, well-balanced, correctly working horse?
 
What you have just shown is that you do not understand "outline"

A true outline is NOT severe or forced

If it is severe or forced it is not in an outline so it is already out of an outline???? objective achieved :)


Find a good instructor with some schoolmasters who you can ride in a true outline harmonious not forced it feels amazing
 
What????

I genuinely do NOT understand this post!!!!

mini-eventer has sort of touched upon the basics of a horse being able to carry a rider...

It HAS to be in a CARRYING OUTLINE. This means, the hocks are engaged underneath propelling a horse forward, therefore lifting its back muscles and promoting a soft outline in front.

Why would you want to UNDO that???

Unless the horse has been ridden in rolkur all its life with a "broken" neck, I believe a proper carriage is important. If the latter, then I DO understand why you would want to undo the rolkur...

In which case... good luck and hope you have ALOT of time.
 
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i agree with above. your idea of what an outline actually is, seems wrong. their is a difference between 'forcing' a horse down, and a correct outline.

I have an exracer who's natural head carraige is high. It took a while to gently teach him to carry himself and myself properly (with no gadgets or drawreins involved). Now he does it naturally as it's more comfortable for him.

Being into 'natural' horseman ship does not mean just letting a horse adapt to carry you the way it likes. You can teach them to carry themselves and improve their posture, muscles, back and spine.

If you are that into natural horsemanship you shouldn't be on his back in the first place! But if you are going to make him carry you, at least show him how to do it in a comfortable, better way for him.
 
My previous horse was ridden (not my me) in draw reins all the time a pretty much ridden in rollker most the time as well. It took me ages to get head forwards, lift though the back and enage himself. Lots of hacking on the buckle even if his was tucked in, it didn't take him long to get the idea to steach forwards.

I was doing it to improve him and release him, once he learnt to stretch I could then slowly gather him up in to light outline, then more 'correct' one once he was ready.

But undoing every thing to a point! I think your barmy tbh
 
OP,see if you can get hold of the book 'The Anatomy of Riding.' by Sarah Wyche. You will learn alot about keeping your horse comfortable.The book is well written with excellent illustrations.
Good luck.
 
Have a look at Phillippe Karls work. He has quite specific excercises to help undo hyperflexed outlines (if this is what you are refering to when you talk of 'outline').

Trina x
 
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