How to keep shoes on

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Hannah198

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I'm having a real nightmare keeping shoes on two horses at the moment. There is no out of the ordinary high jinks in the field, one of them has poor shaped front feet but the others are good feet. It's driving me mad I have to get my farrier out at least once a week for replacements. What are your top tips to keep shoes on?

My farrier has mentioned that the bottom of their feet the horn is breaking up and crumbly he suspects there may have been lime sprayed on my field at some point (I've only been there 2 years) would this cause damage to the horn quality.

They have a good diet and are very healthy. They are both on a balancer. There hasn't been any changes recently apart from moving back oot their winter field (which they have been on the past 2 winters)

I wish I could go barefoot but sadly I don't think either would cope as I do a lot of hacking on stony forestry tracks

Thanks for your help.
 
What is their good diet? And what balancer?

Healthy hooves that hold shoes come from within. Horn quality can be improved.

I'd second hoof boots.
 
my worry with hoof boots is that one of them has long & narrow feet that would be difficult to fit in to boots - if the boots were long enough they would be far to o wide and possibly fall off? Do you have experience of this?

they are on top spec balancer, dengie hi fi, excellent quality grazing and hay when stabled at night (still out 24/7 just now)

I have over reach boots on them in the field as a prevention too.
 
Would need to look at photos of the hooves, but "long and narrow" feet makes me wonder about the trim. There are very few horses that can't be fitted with boots. The Saddlery Shop are very good at advising on the best ones for an individual horse.
I'd also transition to a more "barefoot friendly" diet, because good strong hooves are useful whether shod or unshod. There are a lot of threads here about that, I'd suggest zero-molasses chaff, maybe a base of Fast Fibre and a balancer with no fillers like Pro Hoof. No carrots...
It does sound as if these hooves need a rest from nails for a while.
 
Lime on a field would not adversely affect a horse's hoof, and if it was spread over two years ago it would have no affect on anything whatsoever now.
I suspect the issue lies more with the quality of the farriery, and as others have said, the diet.
 
I've got a 4 yr old who was unshod when I bought her. I've now put shoes on the front but she was barely going a week without pulling one off even with over reach boots on. I friend suggested the 'no turn' over reach boots which don't move about, which I tried and she has kept her shoes on for 6 weeks now with blacksmith due on Friday!
 
My share horse had terrible trouble keeping shoes on his back feet. We changed farrier and he's never lost one in the 6 yers since. And the new farrier is £30 a set cheaper!
 
I keep going back to those long, narrow hooves. There are a lot of horses with toes that are far too long out there. I wonder if your horse is one of them? Diet can be tweaked, poor hoof balance won't help - I think you need a second opinion on these hooves.
 
CIJ said:
I've got a 4 yr old who was unshod when I bought her. I've now put shoes on the front but she was barely going a week without pulling one off even with over reach boots on. I friend suggested the 'no turn' over reach boots which don't move about, which I tried and she has kept her shoes on for 6 weeks now with blacksmith due on Friday!
Click to expand...

I keep saying it, but needing OR boots to keep shoes on points strongly at a hoof balance issue.
 
If I take the toes back on my horse he would be lame - he does not grow feet well particularly lateral growth. He is already on a no molasses chaff and a balancer that apparently promotes hoof growth. He has plenty of dr green also. I wish he had rounder feet but how do I get him there? I can't just take the toes back I would have no foot left as he has small feet on a 17hh frame
 
I agree that you shouldn't just chop away at the hooves into live tissue. Have you looked at the Rockley blog that shows the changes to hoof balance that can occur without drastic trimming? The comfort of the horse is paramount. If something isn't working (and if a horse is constantly losing shoes, it's obvious that something isn't working), you can't just keep doing the same thing and expect a different result.

http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.co.uk/
 
It's not just about taking the toes back, it's about building a healthy foot. You have to help the hoof sort itself out - grass causes problems for lots of horses, as do TopSpec products - or else you may as well resign yourself to taking out shares in an OR boot manufacturer....

Pictures would help, though if you don't want to do that I'd suggest speaking to another farrier at the very least. Maybe worth asking about Natural Balance shoes?

My horses feet were ruined by a farrier who left them trimmed with long toes and I have ended up with them barefoot. You'd be amazed what a hoof can do by itself.
 
My 8 year old New Forest used to keep losing her front, sometimes back shoes in the winter, which wasn't great as she hunted at weekends. She was living out, and we (the farrier & I) came to the conclusion that the mud kept sucking them off and the wet was making her horn soft, as it was very wet & muddy. Stabled her at night, haven't had a problem since, she's now happily hunted two more seasons only losing about 2 shoes, due to her over reaching. Until we went on holiday in August, she hadn't lost a shoe in a year, which was very good considering she'd lose shoes every few weeks two years ago.
 
I will get some pictures but as I'm at work just now that's not possible.

How to top spec products cause foot issues?

Why does grass cause a problem?
 
Scarlett said:
as do TopSpec products - or else you may as well resign yourself to taking out shares in an OR boot manufacturer....
Click to expand...

What's the matter with TopSpec products? One of our very good vets recommended TopSpec Anti-Lam for our laminitic pony, and we used it for years no problem until the place where we bought it from stopped selling it so we bought something else.
 
It's not Top Spec per se but most commercial feeds. The equine digestive system is just not designed for the feed and grass that "we" provide.

The "good" grass is often lush, rye grass. This is fed to cattle to fatten them for market and/or provide milk; cows also have more than one stomach and "chew the cud" i.e. re-digest the grass to break it down. Horses are designed to eat long stalky fibreous grasses. What is "good" grass to the eye isn't necessarily good for equines.

Beets (sugarbeet, unmolassed sugarbeet, fast fibre, speedibeet, etc) all contain undisgestable (for horses) carbohydrates and this can cause hindgut issues. These can be reflected in the hooves.

Alfalfa is a legume and not meant to make up a major part of the equine diet. Most of the commecial chaffs contain molasses and/or alfalfa and you have to read the white ingredients labels very carefully. Even oat straw used in the low calorie chaffs contain chemicals/NSC (hope I've got that right!) to break it down to make it more digestible as the equine gut just isn't designed for it.

Not that I'm the guru on feeds but I've noticed huge improvements since I cut all Alfalfa, beet (in any form) and became ultra strict at reading ALL of the ingredients not just being satisfied there was no added molasses/mogolo/sugars.

The grass is a problem that most of us on livery face; too much of a good thing! If you have old turf and grass allowed to grow long that would be best.

I feed a mix (depending on each horses requirements) of grass nuts, grass chop, micronised linseed and copra with either Pro Hoof or Pro Balance + (as no chemical fillers in these balancers).

Without photos it's hard to comment on your horses' hooves but re long and narrow. My friend hasa 20yr old exmoor that's been shod his whole life. He also had very, very narrow hooves that were long (not overgrown toe but the whole hoof capsule was stretched). He had an extrememly narrow central sulcus that was deep and by treating it for thrush (mainly cider vinegar and field paste) the back of his hoof started to relax and expand. As the palmar aspect of the hoof improved the toe started to come back and now, a year later, his hooves are a completely different shape.

Even if you wish to stay with shoes a break is a good idea. Every good farrier text and farrier recommends at least a (continuous) 12wk break from shoes annually to allow the horse to recover from the damage that shoes cause (farrier words not my BF slant).

There was an article earlier in the year by the Ferries (well known farriers in Scotland) where they talk of how more people are shoeing all year round and the increase in issues they are seeing from WLD to navicular. Back in the day hunters had the summer with shoes off and comp/leisure horses had winter with them off; that doesn't appear to happen now.

Everyone really has to do their own research and make their own minds up. It's fine to have X, Y or Z tell you something but they don't always know all the answers themselves. Look at the recent developments in IR; that was practically unheard of before.

The information is out there it's just taking the time to read through it and reach your own conclusions.

For hoof health Rockley Farm Blog is a good place to start. Good luck whatever you decide.
 
As it's both horses I'd say it's either;
-the quality of their hooves due to diet, the horn will take 6-9 months to grow out so depending on when you started with the balancer- or if you change their feed now you wont see any rapid improvements until spring
- the quality of the shoeing
-being out on wet ground and getting shoes sucked off, do they come off clean? or are there nails left? Try bringing in overnight and see if that improves the situation
-a combination of all of the above

You said you moved to new grazing 2 years ago, has either horse has this problem previously?
 
HenleyRider said:
As it's both horses I'd say it's either;
-the quality of their hooves due to diet, the horn will take 6-9 months to grow out so depending on when you started with the balancer- or if you change their feed now you wont see any rapid improvements until spring
- the quality of the shoeing
-being out on wet ground and getting shoes sucked off, do they come off clean? or are there nails left? Try bringing in overnight and see if that improves the situation
-a combination of all of the above

You said you moved to new grazing 2 years ago, has either horse has this problem previously?
Click to expand...

You forgot to put the Farrier as a possible issue. My horses' hooves improved with a change of farrier.
 
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