How to offer a bargain stud fee without encouraging irresponsible breeding?

[rodgerroo]

I am after a bit of advice from both mare and stallion owners.

I have a young stallion, (licensed) and next year is to be his 1st real year at stud. He has one mare due next Summer as he was only young so barely covered this year (and only did once he passed his license so didn’t cover until August!)
Anyway – i would like for him to be used on an assortment of mares, it’s the only way we are really going to know exactly what he can produce – obviously the individual mares need to match him but you know what i mean by type, etc.

Now, as he is so far unproven... it’s probably going to be smaller breeders/one mare owners who would consider using him. How can I attractive an assortment of mare owners? I was going to do a really cheap stud fee.... but how do i be selective without offending people – i mean if someone really wants to use him yet i don’t feel it’s a good match?

I recall seeing a stallion the other year whos owners offered free coverings to get some mares to their stallion, but i don’t really want to do that as i want someone who is serious about it rather than sees it offered, and thinks it would be a cheap/money making idea! I would obviously also prefer the best mares possible.

I can obviously offer concessions for mares that are graded, have competition records etc but does anyone have any other advice – apart from charging a minimal stud fee (just really to ensure that they realise the true costs of breeding, and ideally to cover the cost of the covering certificates).

I also want to limit the number of mares as it’s his 1st real season so don’t want to over do it! Would something like this work – offer say 5 coverings at a bargain price – but mare owners have to submit info, pics of their mare etc by a set date and then i choose the 5 best (assuming there is 5 etc!)? Would mare owners go for something like that or would they want to know there and then if they can use my boy with their mares?
Any advice/opinions would be fab!

Ps – he is only going to be available via natural cover for 2011 so this again cuts down the number of possible mare owners/distance mare owners are prepared to travel.

 

[magic104]

If you dont think the mare would compliment the stallion then just say so. I dont think your mare would be suitable because of x, y, zd. Does it matter if that offends them? There are plenty of mare owners to choose from & a low stud fee might encourage an owner of a good mare to take the risk.

 

[Maesfen]

By invitation only. Like Magic says, ask for full details and pics of the mares and if they don't suit, don't have them. You have the final say all said and done.
You could put up some adverts announcing him saying he is by invitation only at a reduced fee to those lucky five to be selected for that year and in future, his fee will be ???.

 

[Smile_and_Wave]

I would do discounts for mares that are graded with good competiton records or if there are any particular bloodlines you would like to combine, you could also sponsor a class somewhere in the filed you are trying to promote your stallion, or maybe even offer him up at the BEF futurities or whtever society he is graded with offer him to the top mare of the year or at a certain grading

 

[magic104]

I would do discounts for mares that are graded with good competiton records or if there are any particular bloodlines you would like to combine, you could also sponsor a class somewhere in the filed you are trying to promote your stallion, or maybe even offer him up at the BEF futurities or whtever society he is graded with offer him to the top mare of the year or at a certain grading

But would that necessarily get enough variations in mares? I think advertising him at his 1st season stud fee then turning down unsuitable mares is by far the cheapest & straightforward option.

 

[tristar]

i think if you are breeding you should already know what sort of mares to put the horse to, and have a clear vision of what will be the end result.
to cover different mares to see what comes out is too hit and miss, good breeders can see in their mind before mating two horses what the result will be, before creating another foal and breed responsibly.
if the stallion is worth breeding from he should command a decent stud fee from day one.

 

[Smile_and_Wave]

But would that necessarily get enough variations in mares? I think advertising him at his 1st season stud fee then turning down unsuitable mares is by far the cheapest & straightforward option.

why would you want a varriation in mares? surely you would have an idea of the type of stock you want to produce and also think is saleable, so then you would support the classes you would think would attract the kind of mares you would like to cover with the stallion

 

[rodgerroo]

Thank you for all of the replies.

We do know what we are aiming for with him breeding wise, and feel we have an idea of what type of stock he will be producing however he is bound to get different types of mares over the years, so why not at the start so we can have photos etc of what he can produce when crossed with others?

I seem to recall that there are various breeds of mares that have been covered by a well known arabian - even a highland if my memory is correct? i dare say eyebrows were risen at the thought of that cross but it worked, and why should they not have tried?

We know what mares we dont want really for him, and that may come as a suprise to some but we do not intend to breed pure breds with him. I had a lady local to us who expressed an interest in using him this year... but despite her mare being 'nice enough,' it would have been a pure bred foal and i dont think it would have been more than your standard foal - so we declined.

I'll have to get the wording right and get some adverts out and about and see the types of mares that may be interested in him.

 

[magic104]

why would you want a varriation in mares? surely you would have an idea of the type of stock you want to produce and also think is saleable, so then you would support the classes you would think would attract the kind of mares you would like to cover with the stallion

So is a WB not a variation to say a TB or a pony mare? Even then there are variations between a Connie & NF or Welsh & even with TBs there is the small compact model & the rangy NH type. Look at the difference in your WB's & their offspring using the same parents. When a stallion is young, you dont have a clue how he stamps his stock until they are on the ground. Not everyone wants to gamble on them, so a reduced fee for the 1st season makes sense. If as it seems to be the case here they can be more selective with the mares then that is to be commended. If people were not will to gamble then you would not have your WB's etc because no one would breed away from the pure breds.

 

[Irishlife]

Back when I was breeding in the UK, it was quite usual for a stallion owner to put the caveat "Approved mares only" and if the type wasn't what they wanted, good stallion people anyway would offer another choice of horse or make recommendations for a more suitable match.

However with a young unproven stallion it is quite normal to offer a concessionary rate for his first season to encourage mare owners. If you offer a professional service and your horse really does have something to offer a good mare, you won't be short of clients. However, it is a two way street and do bear in mind that while some owners may have mares who you may not be keen on, they may have other mares for you in the future.

You know what they say, you can insult someone's husband, wife and family but NEVER insult their stock!!!

 

[wigum]

why would you want a varriation in mares? surely you would have an idea of the type of stock you want to produce and also think is saleable, so then you would support the classes you would think would attract the kind of mares you would like to cover with the stallion

I don't think a variation is such a bad thing. If you look at the offspring from a number of mares of differing types you can see what he throws, how he stamps all his stock and what he passes on irrespective of the mares.
Maybe he is a refiner but if he is steered away from chunkier mares who might need him, you may not find this or you may delay finding this otherwise valuable attribute of his until much later.
Then you also see what doesn't work which is just as valuable. Solid information about good points and bad points is great information.

This of course comes with the caveat that if he is lacking in one area, avoid mares who are similarly deficient and who would propagate this on.

Just my thoughts and I'm not a stallion owner but it is the sort of information i like to hear about when i ask about a horse. I can however see the value of hand picking types you think would compliment so that his first crop would be stunners. Then again in my experience things often take unexpected twists and who is to say the perfect match will produce perfect foals.

 

[htobago]

Already lots of good suggestions here, but I'll just add my tuppence-worth from my own experience, as I think my boy H Tobago may be the 'well-known Arabian' you mentioned!

I have no mares of my own - Tobago is my only horse - so I was also keen to get a variety of quality mares to him in his first season. I simply advertised him with a 'Private Treaty' stud fee, and I still do. This allows me to give concessions for very special mares.

He attracted a large number of very good mares in his first season, and continues to do so, so I'm not sure that advertising any additional 'incentives' is really necessary, although if you wish to do this, I think Maesfen's suggestion is a particularly good one.

I share your anxiety and squeamishness about offending mare owners, but there are ways of saying 'no' without hurting people's feelings - most mare owners are grateful if you are honest enough to say that you don't feel your stallion would suit/complement their mare, especially if you offer helpful alternative suggestions, etc.