How to plan a yard, outdoor school and field fencing etc

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GREYSMEADOW

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Does anyone know of any guideline/website link for when you are planning a yard layout etc ie.

1. Stabling should be x yards away from your house
2. Manure heap should be x yards away from residential property with easy access from road/drive
3. Stabling: U shaped, L shaped, long block or other and near access
4. Stables to face north, east, south etc
5. Some stabling to have stable door at rear of box for direct access to field/grazing (can be useful for 24/7 turnout with shelter
6. Stabling to have yard turnout (useful hardstanding to the front)
7. Hay barn to be next to the stables, separate block or somewhere else, higher than stabling or same height. (if high could be useful for horse trailer/lorry park next to or inside barn)
8. Tack room to sit at the end of the block or between stabling
9. Feed room to sit at the end of the block or between stabling
10. Outdoor school away from the stables or behind or in front or other – however if backing on to stabling/barn which could be useful for outdoor lighting as I think you need planning permission for lighting around an outdoor school.
11. What size of school is best for dressage and/or jumping
12. Water toughs in fields near each other back to back (separate fields) / near to gateway or somewhere else

and anything else

This is not for me but for someone else who is totally non-horsey but plans to build a new yard to go with the new house.

Any helps etc would be great.

Many thanks.
 
Don't know of a website but would suggest getting in contact with local council planning department as they are usually very helpful, not just with what needs planning permission but what sort of designs/materials will get passed.

Also need to consider the topography and things like prevailing winds (ie don't have the stables facing southwest as this is where the wind comes from, put the school on a flat bit etc.). As to what to have where, to some extent this will be dictated by planning requirements and topography (do not have stables at bottom of hill beside stream or they will flood etc.). Probably a good idea to visit as many local yards as possible and ask people what works for them and why. Don't forget to take into account the soil type- if you are in Mid Sussex it will probably be clay which does not drain, and grows rich grass, or if you are near the Downs, chalk, which does drain and grows poor grass with lots of calcium in it.

As you can probably tell I am no expert so get in touch with the planning people- they will probably also be able to put you in touch with the 'buy with confidence' register of reputable traders who will be able to quote for the work.

Good luck!
 
What about contacting some of the big stabling companys - having a senior moment and can't actually think of any names at the mo - but lots of them advertise in H&H and they could probably advise your friend on most of it and could do the same with the people who build schools.

Probably too long to wait but there's usually quite a fewwith stands at South of England show and Hickstead too.
 
nosenseofdirection said:
Don't know of a website but would suggest getting in contact with local council planning department as they are usually very helpful, not just with what needs planning permission but what sort of designs/materials will get passed.

Also need to consider the topography and things like prevailing winds (ie don't have the stables facing southwest as this is where the wind comes from, put the school on a flat bit etc.). As to what to have where, to some extent this will be dictated by planning requirements and topography (do not have stables at bottom of hill beside stream or they will flood etc.). Probably a good idea to visit as many local yards as possible and ask people what works for them and why. Don't forget to take into account the soil type- if you are in Mid Sussex it will probably be clay which does not drain, and grows rich grass, or if you are near the Downs, chalk, which does drain and grows poor grass with lots of calcium in it.

As you can probably tell I am no expert so get in touch with the planning people- they will probably also be able to put you in touch with the 'buy with confidence' register of reputable traders who will be able to quote for the work.

Good luck!
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Thanks for this helpful information.

I know that they will have to apply for a change of use as I think the land is still classed as agricultural but have some very old stabling if that’s what you call it. I don’t think that they want to site the new stabling on the site as the old ones.

The land is very flat in East Sussex - has no streams/rivers running through it. There is a stream/ditching on the other side of the main hedge by the road and soil is very much clay as it’s not directly near the Downs.

I’m wondering if they go to get advise directly with stabling companies, would it be the useful advise/ideas etc. as us horsey people look into it more thoroughly. Like outside water tap at either ends of the stable block and barn so that you can wash off horse box/lorry… a number of little things make a difference.
 
jodie3 said:
What about contacting some of the big stabling companys - having a senior moment and can't actually think of any names at the mo - but lots of them advertise in H&H and they could probably advise your friend on most of it and could do the same with the people who build schools.

Probably too long to wait but there's usually quite a fewwith stands at South of England show and Hickstead too.
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Thanks – that’s my initial idea re. stabling companies as I have a few in mind who are within Sussex of which one of my friends eventually had a stable block built – they kept her money for over a year as the site which was approved by Council (they did all the planning work) was uneven ground and stabling would have to be built up gradually (up hill). In the end they had to dig out the ground to level it out – why they didn’t decide that in the beginning I just don’t know.
 
I would think that if they went to one of the more reputable companys they would be able to give them advice on where to site everything!

How many stables are they planning to build?

Otherwise take them on a tour of yards round the county, the good and the bad!

How about a visit to the new yard they have just built up on Ashdown Forest - Chelwood Equestrian? I've only seen it on their website but that doesn't look like much has been left to chance.
 
I don't know of particular websites but would imagine that one of the established stabling companies would be the best people to approach.
One of my neighbours built a small stable block before trying to sell their house. Unfortunately although they had it professionally planned, it must have been by someone who doesn't keep horses as those of us who do can see that there are sorts of issues which would need to be resolved by anyone who actually wanted to keep horses in it. There is a tree which obstructs access to a stable door, there is no access possible without knocking down a boundary wall for an emergency vehicle. One of the stable doors doesn't fold back flat to the wall when open, etc, etc.
 
jodie3 said:
I would think that if they went to one of the more reputable companys they would be able to give them advice on where to site everything!

How many stables are they planning to build?

Otherwise take them on a tour of yards round the county, the good and the bad!

How about a visit to the new yard they have just built up on Ashdown Forest - Chelwood Equestrian? I've only seen it on their website but that doesn't look like much has been left to chance.
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Not sure on the no. of stables (Council usually goes by no. of acres on site). My friend went to the stabling co. at Hickstead who kept her money for a while re. ground/planning etc (see prev. post).

O.M.G - Chelwood Equestrian is like a hotel for horses!!!! Do you know who owns/runs it? I wonder if they will have lectures/demos we can go to. Do they have a gallery/seating in the indoor school? ...Now where's my lottery ticket!
 
Pearlsasinger said:
I don't know of particular websites but would imagine that one of the established stabling companies would be the best people to approach.
One of my neighbours built a small stable block before trying to sell their house. Unfortunately although they had it professionally planned, it must have been by someone who doesn't keep horses as those of us who do can see that there are sorts of issues which would need to be resolved by anyone who actually wanted to keep horses in it. There is a tree which obstructs access to a stable door, there is no access possible without knocking down a boundary wall for an emergency vehicle. One of the stable doors doesn't fold back flat to the wall when open, etc, etc.
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Thanks - I wonder if these established stabling companies are actually horsey though. Think I shall start ringing/emailing around and asking questions then.
 
GREYSMEADOW said:
O.M.G - Chelwood Equestrian is like a hotel for horses!!!! Do you know who owns/runs it? I wonder if they will have lectures/demos we can go to. Do they have a gallery/seating in the indoor school? ...Now where's my lottery ticket!
Click to expand...

Not sure of the name of the guy who owns it but if you do a google search it comes up.

Apparently he has built it with the intention of it being a training camp/base for 2012 Olympics. I think there is an eventer there already in part of the yard. I know Francis Whittington does clinics there and I think others do. You can hire the facilities too. (Sorry to hijack original post!)
 
Try Levade - they've just done my friend's little yard and she's been saying how good they are. He's the brother of Vicky Thompson so I'm assuming he knows about bigger yards too - not sure if he did the work at Oldencraig or not. http://www.levadesystems.co.uk/index.html.

Don't forget about things like drains and water run off, access for hay deliveries etc, muck heap removal, where to put gates, water taps, power points etc (eg no sockets or switches within reach of teeth). If they want to run it as a livery yard they also need to consider what liveries will want - storage, lorry parking, car parking, tea facilities, loo etc. It's amazing how it seems to be the smallest things that affect the logistics of the whole yard!

How exciting to have the chance to plan something from scratch.
 
I have been in quite a few yards which although they look okay have in practice lots of silly little issues caused by poor planning, so I think its possible not all the stabling companies have experience of actually owning and running a yard. For example stables facing outwards on a horseshoe rather than inwards, and into the prevailing wind, barn stables with inadequate ventilation, badly positioned taps and hoses, nowhere sheltered to tie up for washing, shoes, clipping, no nearby power point for clipping, no warm water (sounds like a luxury but honestly is it?!), water pipes inadequately lagged so they freeze , everything miles from everything else etc etc. I would reckon it is a good idea to get one or two of these people in to do drawings but as he has a horsey friend I think he could do a lot worse than ask you to look at the drawings ! He should also ask the council in the context of the change of use because I think he may need to put the new buildings where the old ones are (they will be able to tell him) and I think you might need permission for a school (or maybe only if it has fixed floodlights - in which case put movable ones on )
 
Hi Greysmeadows
I write the property pages for H&H and am actually in the process of writing something on yard planning, but I have also written other articles on the topic in the past, so I will try and dig them out for you. It should give your friend some generic guidelines to start from.

However, as others already pointed out in their replies, the exact location of the yard will dictate how to build it, as you need to take soil, wind, terrain etc into account. For example, a full dressage arena is 60x20m (wider for show jumping, which can be 60x40m or more) but you may only have enough flat, free-draining space to fit a 40x20m 'family-sized' one.

Also bear in mind that some guidelines may contradict others, for example brick or stone stables are usually considered better from a fire prevention viewpoint but, unless you are converting an existing outbuilding, it is often rather difficult to persuade planners that building a stone or brick stable block from scratch is really such a good idea. Budget obviously plays a part too.

If your friend can afford it, it may be best to hire a yard planning consultant, who can come and visit the location and advise accordingly. For example, I know William Fox Pitt runs one such consultancy, which takes care of both design and planning advice: http://www.foxpitteventing.co.uk/team/fox-pitt-consulting/ (though please note I have not employed the company personally).

Hope this helps
c
 
Well I can thoroughly recommend Passmores if it helps. Have liveried at a yard where they put up a beautiful block and the chap there is horsey as is his wife. He's been doing it all his life.
 
It would very much depend on how many stables they wanted to build, and what they would be used for... As for it depending on acreage - we have 20acres, and our council let us have two! Four after a huge "discussion". If its a competition yard, then it would need washing off boxes, heat boxes etc Lots of standing for lorry, large arenas... If its being a livery yard, it would need boxes with storage - individual tackrooms at the back of stables if poss, lots of parking and a good access road (councils aren't that happy about you making this - they want it already there). Easy access to turnout - the perfect yard is great, but if you have to walk down/cross a busy road to turnout its not that perfect. If the stables are being built to add value - not that many, nicely fenced paddocks, 20x40 menage...

The best thing we did was build out yard in an L shape, with facing north/northeast, as it misses 90% of wind and rain. I think I sent off for brochures for various companies - I think the stable company (which is at most major events) had a brochure with pictures, and plans for several types that they had built, which would give you ideas.

You'd be best speaking to your local council planners - I got a lovely idea of what I wanted in my head, and they wouldn't pass half of it - even with existing buildings! Even when they advised one thing before we applied, they rejected it when we put it in!
 
rubyredshoes said:
Try Levade - they've just done my friend's little yard and she's been saying how good they are. He's the brother of Vicky Thompson so I'm assuming he knows about bigger yards too - not sure if he did the work at Oldencraig or not. http://www.levadesystems.co.uk/index.html.

Don't forget about things like drains and water run off, access for hay deliveries etc, muck heap removal, where to put gates, water taps, power points etc (eg no sockets or switches within reach of teeth). If they want to run it as a livery yard they also need to consider what liveries will want - storage, lorry parking, car parking, tea facilities, loo etc. It's amazing how it seems to be the smallest things that affect the logistics of the whole yard!

How exciting to have the chance to plan something from scratch.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this rubyredshoes - Levades are on my 'to call' list. The owners told me they just want to rent it all out.
 
imr said:
I have been in quite a few yards which although they look okay have in practice lots of silly little issues caused by poor planning, so I think its possible not all the stabling companies have experience of actually owning and running a yard. For example stables facing outwards on a horseshoe rather than inwards, and into the prevailing wind, barn stables with inadequate ventilation, badly positioned taps and hoses, nowhere sheltered to tie up for washing, shoes, clipping, no nearby power point for clipping, no warm water (sounds like a luxury but honestly is it?!), water pipes inadequately lagged so they freeze , everything miles from everything else etc etc. I would reckon it is a good idea to get one or two of these people in to do drawings but as he has a horsey friend I think he could do a lot worse than ask you to look at the drawings ! He should also ask the council in the context of the change of use because I think he may need to put the new buildings where the old ones are (they will be able to tell him) and I think you might need permission for a school (or maybe only if it has fixed floodlights - in which case put movable ones on )
Click to expand...

Thanks for your input - very good points to...
It will be interesting to see how stabling companies differ in their ways of planning and design. Plus I also forgot to mention that 12 x 12 seems to be the average horse stable size! Whats they next best size to go for with larger horses.... 15 x 15?
 
carlapassino said:
Hi Greysmeadows
I write the property pages for H&H and am actually in the process of writing something on yard planning, but I have also written other articles on the topic in the past, so I will try and dig them out for you. It should give your friend some generic guidelines to start from.

However, as others already pointed out in their replies, the exact location of the yard will dictate how to build it, as you need to take soil, wind, terrain etc into account. For example, a full dressage arena is 60x20m (wider for show jumping, which can be 60x40m or more) but you may only have enough flat, free-draining space to fit a 40x20m 'family-sized' one.

Also bear in mind that some guidelines may contradict others, for example brick or stone stables are usually considered better from a fire prevention viewpoint but, unless you are converting an existing outbuilding, it is often rather difficult to persuade planners that building a stone or brick stable block from scratch is really such a good idea. Budget obviously plays a part too.

If your friend can afford it, it may be best to hire a yard planning consultant, who can come and visit the location and advise accordingly. For example, I know William Fox Pitt runs one such consultancy, which takes care of both design and planning advice: http://www.foxpitteventing.co.uk/team/fox-pitt-consulting/ (though please note I have not employed the company personally).

Hope this helps
c
Click to expand...

Thanks carlapassino - most helpful and it would be great to have a copy of your articles/guildlines. Please PM me and I can provide my email address - thanks.
 
Honey08 said:
It would very much depend on how many stables they wanted to build, and what they would be used for... As for it depending on acreage - we have 20acres, and our council let us have two! Four after a huge "discussion". If its a competition yard, then it would need washing off boxes, heat boxes etc Lots of standing for lorry, large arenas... If its being a livery yard, it would need boxes with storage - individual tackrooms at the back of stables if poss, lots of parking and a good access road (councils aren't that happy about you making this - they want it already there). Easy access to turnout - the perfect yard is great, but if you have to walk down/cross a busy road to turnout its not that perfect. If the stables are being built to add value - not that many, nicely fenced paddocks, 20x40 menage...

The best thing we did was build out yard in an L shape, with facing north/northeast, as it misses 90% of wind and rain. I think I sent off for brochures for various companies - I think the stable company (which is at most major events) had a brochure with pictures, and plans for several types that they had built, which would give you ideas.

You'd be best speaking to your local council planners - I got a lovely idea of what I wanted in my head, and they wouldn't pass half of it - even with existing buildings! Even when they advised one thing before we applied, they rejected it when we put it in!
Click to expand...


Thanks Honey08 - they have just under 15 acres of grazing on either side with no fencing yet. There is a weird stabling block (brick) but its more like a shed behind the house which they are going to remove eventually (its an eyesore). They just want to put some stabling up and an outdoor school to rent out as a whole (not a livery yard).
 
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