How to regain confidence after horse kick??

[Mia_rose]

So my 2 year old pony kicked me for the first time this week. I’ve owned him since he was 6 months old. I was doing some clicker training with him with my horsemanship trainer. I believe he got pissed off and just wanted the treats as I went to put my hand in my pocket I decided not to treat him in that moment. He put his ears flat back and before I knew it he had got in front of me and booted me on purpose! I’m so shocked at how bloody quick he did this I had zero time to react. It’s really knocked me tbh and every time he even puts an ear back I panic and don’t want to be around him. Any tips? I believe he needs to learn respect and boundaries and he is pushing his luck. He is out 24/7 in a herd just fyi so learns from other horses.

 

[Amy May In A Manger]

I'm so sorry you got kicked, it's always such a horrible shock when these things happen

Out of interest, What's the purpose of the clicker training?

 

[Mia_rose]

as he is only 2 we were just doing some spook busting, walking over soft play mats ect. He was getting bulshy over the treats so decided to do some just generally leading and every time he walked nicely I would stop, click and give a treat. I think he was becoming pissed off with it all. It’s the method my trainer uses and has a lot of success with clicker training. I don’t think it’s the right way to go with my bolshy native pony lol

 

[stangs]

Tip is that you need a better instructor because whatever you're doing now is setting him up to fail. It's not him 'needing to learn respect'; his behaviour was a symptom of him feeling some pretty strong frustration and food-related anxiety.

It's not his fault, it's not the clicker training's fault, it's the fault of the handler and instructor for not intervening as the frustration escalated.

If you continue using clicker training with him, I'd recommend working in restricted contact for the time being (i.e., with a fence between you and him) for your own protection.

 

[Amy May In A Manger]

Others may disagree, but I've always been taught to just let youngsters be youngsters. Provided you can do the basics; handling, leading, feet, tie up etc then that's usually enough until their third or fourth year.

 

[Mia_rose]

Tip is that you need a better instructor because whatever you're doing now is setting him up to fail. It's not him 'needing to learn respect'; his behaviour was a symptom of him feeling some pretty strong frustration and food-related anxiety.

It's not his fault, it's not the clicker training's fault, it's the fault of the handler and instructor for not intervening as the frustration escalated.

If you continue using clicker training with him, I'd recommend working in restricted contact for the time being (i.e., with a fence between you and him) for your own protection.

He’s on the whole well behaved to the point my 6 year old daughter can lead him. He doesn’t do a lot for his age and is left to be a horse growing up. I know I’ve done a good job with him. This was 10 minutes into the session and we had not done an awful lot. This came out of nowhere. I believe treats made him frustrated and annoyed so I will not be using these for any training purposes nor will I be using clicker training as a method.

 

[Mia_rose]

Others may disagree, but I've always been taught to just let youngsters be youngsters. Provided you can do the basics; handling, leading, feet, tie up etc then that's usually enough until their third or fourth year.

I don’t do a lot with him at all, basic handling for farrier and a groom. I will be leaving him be mostly over the winter apart from coming in for a small feed and back out

 

[maya2008]

I have two year olds I clicker trained when they were feral weanlings. They respect me just fine and trust me too. They would not go to kick, even if I annoyed them beyond belief, but they would let me know they’d had enough in a polite way and I would listen.

Why are you afraid? What do you think he will do, and how would you respond if he kicked you again? Has his behaviour changed since?

As someone who always has a youngster or a feral one somewhere… don’t make them too familiar and they won’t climb all over you. Don’t be their friend, be their trusted ‘adult’ - someone they can look to for help and hide behind yes; not someone they would jump onto to hide from the danger.

 

[Mia_rose]

I have two year olds I clicker trained when they were feral weanlings. They respect me just fine and trust me too. They would not go to kick, even if I annoyed them beyond belief, but they would let me know they’d had enough in a polite way and I would listen.

Why are you afraid? What do you think he will do, and how would you respond if he kicked you again? Has his behaviour changed since?

As someone who always has a youngster or a feral one somewhere… don’t make them too familiar and they won’t climb all over you. Don’t be their friend, be their trusted ‘adult’ - someone they can look to for help and hide behind yes; not someone they would jump onto to hide from the danger.

I don’t feel like he was pushed and the only signs of frustration was that he was getting quite bolshy with the treats. I was also working with a trusted instructor so believed they would have picked up on any warning signs.
I am worried he thinks I’ll come baring treats and if I don’t give them to him he will kick out again.
He’s been so good for the years I’ve had him I never believed he would kick me tbh.
Not sure how I would deal with it if he kicked me again to be honest.
I would seek help from another instructor I think.

 

[stangs]

I don’t feel like he was pushed

Doesn't really matter what you feel. Matters how he felt and he was clearly telling you that.

the only signs of frustration was that he was getting quite bolshy with the treats

That is a very big, very clear sign.

This came out of nowhere. I believe treats made him frustrated and annoyed so I will not be using these for any training purposes nor will I be using clicker training as a method.

You say it came out of nowhere and yet clearly list the signs of frustration he was showing, and say yourself that he was frustrated.

If you are not willing to learn or change how you train, then I agree that it would be best that you stop clicker training. For his sake.

 

[Mia_rose]

Doesn't really matter what you feel. Matters how he felt and he was clearly telling you that.


That is a very big, very clear sign.


You say it came out of nowhere and yet clearly list the signs of frustration he was showing, and say yourself that he was frustrated.

If you are not willing to learn or change how you train, then I agree that it would be best that you stop clicker training. For his sake.

Clearly I am willing to learn!! I have decided I will not be clicker training him as I don’t think using treats as positive reinforcement works for him due to him getting frustrated. No need for rudeness I have come on here asking how to gain confidence. My point is that we were not pushing him and apart form becoming bulshy he gave me no signs of anxiety and I also trusted my instructor I was working with. Had I been on my own I would have decided to stop but I had a professional with me and trusted in that and her. I’ve owned him since 6 months old and he’s always been a good boy. It’s gone wrong in this one session, I do not claim to be perfect or that I don’t make mistakes or wrong judgements. I was hoping to get some kind advice on here on regaining confidence is all and by clearly posting and expressing in my original post that using treats does not clearly work for him I think it’s pretty obvious I am willing to learn from this and change my method of approach!!!

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I think your instructor let you down here and it would be wise to seek another like you’ve said. They should have assessed his behaviour long before suggesting using treats in any sort of training and any movement in your space, before you could even describe it as being bolshy, should have either been dealt with or precluded him from being trained with that way straight off the bat. There were many signs that it was building to a kick both from what you’ve said and experience, it’s not a first action from a horse but a result of built upon frustration, and I think if you really tried to understand the 10 warning signs he would have given, then you’d feel a lot more confident nipping it in the bud sooner. Watch some Steve Young videos on YouTube perhaps, don’t try to copy them without an experienced person present but if you can skip through the waffle he is brilliant at showing you what to look for.

Going forward, no more treats at any point and certainly nothing by hand, ever. Including treating others in front of him as much as possible. As another poster has said, you aren’t his friend, you are his ‘adult’ and he is not to come into your space uninvited at any point, don’t let him walk through you, or approach you or sniff your coat or walk ahead of you when leading.. zero tolerance. He is in his formative years and he needs boundaries so he doesn’t think he can build on the behaviour exhibited in that training session. He may never do it again, but you also need to set him up for success in not putting him in a position where he feels he needs to.

I would also caution you to stop allowing your children free access around him, 2yos are unpredictable and you don’t know if he may do it again - so I would err on the side of caution here

 

[Mia_rose]

I think your instructor let you down here and it would be wise to seek another like you’ve said. They should have assessed his behaviour long before suggesting using treats in any sort of training and any movement in your space, before you could even describe it as being bolshy, should have either been dealt with or precluded him from being trained with that way straight off the bat. There were many signs that it was building to a kick both from what you’ve said and experience, it’s not a first action from a horse but a result of built upon frustration, and I think if you really tried to understand the 10 warning signs he would have given, then you’d feel a lot more confident nipping it in the bud sooner. Watch some Steve Young videos on YouTube perhaps, don’t try to copy them without an experienced person present but if you can skip through the waffle he is brilliant at showing you what to look for.

Going forward, no more treats at any point and certainly nothing by hand, ever. Including treating others in front of him as much as possible. As another poster has said, you aren’t his friend, you are his ‘adult’ and he is not to come into your space uninvited at any point, don’t let him walk through you, or approach you or sniff your coat or walk ahead of you when leading.. zero tolerance. He is in his formative years and he needs boundaries so he doesn’t think he can build on the behaviour exhibited in that training session. He may never do it again, but you also need to set him up for success in not putting him in a position where he feels he needs to.

I would also caution you to stop allowing your children free access around him, 2yos are unpredictable and you don’t know if he may do it again - so I would err on the side of caution here

Thank you for your constructive feedback I agree with everything you said. My daughter does very minimal with him purely for the fact he is 2 and I do not trust him- (because he is 2) and not because of any reason previous prior to the kick. She has led him with me a couple of times because he is usually so good but she finds it boring coming to the yard because on the whole I don’t let her around him much. The horsemanship instructor is by far the most popular in the area and is the most recommended by absolutely everyone and have used her for my previous pony so had no reason to question anything we were doing even though I new he was getting bolshy with treats. Feel very sad about it all as not only has it knocked my confidence I feel as though my hard work over the years has gone to shit in one lesson. I do have an instructor coming out to help me regain confidence and ensure boundaries and respect are nicely put in place in a firm and fair way. Like previously mentioned I have been trying to be his friend and I think that’s half the problem, he does not see me as the leader and have that confidence in me. We will get there again but going to take some time

 

[Marigold4]

I think sone horses work well for a treat and others, once treats are involved, it's all they can think about and do whatever they can think of to get the treat. Maybe yours falls into the second camp. My 2 year old has done quite a bit of training: she loads, travels, been to 4 shows, inhand walk and trot, halt, voice commands established. All done with a "good girl" and a rub as reward. I don't agree with just letting them be as youngsters. I think you are setting them up for success.

I'm sorry you were kicked that's horrible. Keep control of the yougster's head. Stand further forward and not at the shoulder. Then pony wo't be able to wheel round and kick.

 

[gallopingby]

@Mia_rose your instructor should have picked up the warning signals and should have taken control of the situation. How big is the pony? Was he a feral hill pony? I do very little with 2 year olds, they should have learnt basic manners but 2 is the time to grow out in the field with their friends. I would be leaving him to be a pony for the next few months.

 

[HaplessHorse]

He’s on the whole well behaved to the point my 6 year old daughter can lead him. He doesn’t do a lot for his age and is left to be a horse growing up. I know I’ve done a good job with him. This was 10 minutes into the session and we had not done an awful lot. This came out of nowhere. I believe treats made him frustrated and annoyed so I will not be using these for any training purposes nor will I be using clicker training as a method.

10 minutes is quite a lot, particularly for a youngster. I usually do groundwork in blocks of 5 mins a day, doing a min or two on stuff the horse already knows 100%, and finds enjoyable and easy. Then a break where they just get to stand, then a min on stuff they’re less confident in/learning about. Another break, then back to easy stuff for a min and done.

Although for a 2yo I’d be tempted to go for 3 mins max - 1 fun, 1 learning, 1 fun. Also, it’s fine to end early if you reach a really good high point. Obviously, I understand if your trainer told you to carry on for longer, and really, it should’ve been the trainer’s responsibility to tell you this.

I have decided I will not be clicker training him as I don’t think using treats as positive reinforcement works for him due to him getting frustrated. No need for rudeness I have come on here asking how to gain confidence. My point is that we were not pushing him and apart form becoming bulshy he gave me no signs of anxiety

Being bolshy is quite a big sign of anxiety, with my cob, reverting to bolshy behaviour precedes hand-chomping, and is a huge sign of overstimulation, although I do occasionally miss it. Whenever she gets bolshy I ask her to stand, take a few steps back, reward and wait for her to settle. Although, depending on how I feel (if I’m not 100% confident or I feel a bit off) I may just end the session there.

In terms of improving your confidence, just let him be a horse, do basic jobs, continue with grooming, handling, feet, etc and in time confidence will return. Try not to hold a grudge or be overly cautious with him (although I understand this is extremely difficult), because a horse won’t really understand the grudge. I’d say maybe don’t completely write off clicker training but definitely leave it for a few months (maybe until a 3yo?) while regaining your confidence and finding a new trainer. Only return to it with a trusted trainer, a decent trainer will have a few tricks in the bag that don’t involve clicker that you could start in to regain confidence in yourself and them.

How did you react to the kick, if I may ask? If you want to PM, you may, and I do hope people aren’t too judgmental about it because it is a difficult position to be in, and it’s difficult to know what to do in the moment.

I’m sorry this has happened, but hopefully u can learn and grow from it!

 

[smolmaus]

I am another fully paid up member of the clicker training, R+ club and you have to be just as careful picking a trainer with R+ as you do picking one that uses pressure release or positive punishment. We will all have seen trainers mess up, push a horse too far, not notice communication they should have noticed. Over arousal and frustration don't come up as often with traditional training methods as you're not really using the horses motivation to train with, so I suspect this "clicker trainer" just isn't as experienced or knowledgeable about equine communication as they should be. Which was me! 10 months ago! I created a frustrated and over aroused pony too! I got a qualified behaviourist in and they picked up all the things I missed or didn't properly train; don't train hungry, rock solid "start, stop" protocol, cue clarity from myself, I wasn't reinforcing often enough with low value rewards and was over-using high value rewards. It's easy enough to get results with "sloppy' training but there is always a chance you'll push too far one day and get a reaction like this, no matter what method is used.

In terms of your confidence, go back to what you are already confident with. If you are still learning R+ and so is the baby pony, its green + green isn't it. If you are confident with pressure release, use that. You can use scratches as R+ which comes very naturally as its always been used even in traditional training and is rewarding without being over arousing. I'm going to do what I always do and recommend qualified behaviourist, even for a few sessions. The person we use is registered with ACBT, they have a Find a Practitioner page , there isn't a single thing I've ever done thats led to more knowledge and success than get our behaviourist in as part of our team.

 

[Mia_rose]

@Mia_rose your instructor should have picked up the warning signals and should have taken control of the situation. How big is the pony? Was he a feral hill pony? I do very little with 2 year olds, they should have learnt basic manners but 2 is the time to grow out in the field with their friends. I would be leaving him to be a pony for the next few months.

He is a new forest pony, only 13hands. Was bred on the forest and came in via the drifts. Was weaned with the breeder and then came to me and as I say he’s been good since then apart from in this training session.

 

[Mia_rose]

10 minutes is quite a lot, particularly for a youngster. I usually do groundwork in blocks of 5 mins a day, doing a min or two on stuff the horse already knows 100%, and finds enjoyable and easy. Then a break where they just get to stand, then a min on stuff they’re less confident in/learning about. Another break, then back to easy stuff for a min and done.

Although for a 2yo I’d be tempted to go for 3 mins max - 1 fun, 1 learning, 1 fun. Also, it’s fine to end early if you reach a really good high point. Obviously, I understand if your trainer told you to carry on for longer, and really, it should’ve been the trainer’s responsibility to tell you this.


Being bolshy is quite a big sign of anxiety, with my cob, reverting to bolshy behaviour precedes hand-chomping, and is a huge sign of overstimulation, although I do occasionally miss it. Whenever she gets bolshy I ask her to stand, take a few steps back, reward and wait for her to settle. Although, depending on how I feel (if I’m not 100% confident or I feel a bit off) I may just end the session there.

In terms of improving your confidence, just let him be a horse, do basic jobs, continue with grooming, handling, feet, etc and in time confidence will return. Try not to hold a grudge or be overly cautious with him (although I understand this is extremely difficult), because a horse won’t really understand the grudge. I’d say maybe don’t completely write off clicker training but definitely leave it for a few months (maybe until a 3yo?) while regaining your confidence and finding a new trainer. Only return to it with a trusted trainer, a decent trainer will have a few tricks in the bag that don’t involve clicker that you could start in to regain confidence in yourself and them.

How did you react to the kick, if I may ask? If you want to PM, you may, and I do hope people aren’t too judgmental about it because it is a difficult position to be in, and it’s difficult to know what to do in the moment.

I’m sorry this has happened, but hopefully u can learn and grow from it!

Thank you for your reply. I have an instructor coming out today to help gain my confidence but I will be not doing anything with him now for a while apart from the basics, a groom, farrier, bring in for a feed. Yes that’s the thing I am struggling with. I do not want him to pick up on my anxiety but I am feeling super cautions around him now which I relent do need to get over.
I didn’t do a lot tbh! I was quite shocked. My trainer held him and lead him around a bit. I then lead him around calmly and then wanted to end the session as I just did not feel it was right to do more for him and myself.

 

[Caol Ila]

In fairness to the OP (stangs was maybe a wee bit harsh), it’s so easy to get sucked into a situation that’s not good when you’re in a lesson or similar, where you’ve put yourself in a position where you are relying on someone with authority to tell you what to do, obviously assuming they know more than you (or you wouldn’t even be there!).

I’m a hell of a lot more experienced than the OP, and I’ve ballsed that up. Let a situation at a lesson escalate, trusting the instructor to actually be helpful and de-escalate but everything she said made it worse. Had I been schooling myself, I would have sorted it. Never would have been a thing. I would have gone, oh, horse isn’t mentally ready for what I’m asking him to do today, then moved onto something else. No big deal. But instructor kept insisting he was being a cheeky Highland. I knew better, and I knew what she said wasn’t helping but it’s like my brain packed its bags and went on holiday because I was in a lesson. I was so pissed at myself. Felt so stupid. Took me ages to sort my horse out after that.

 

[maya2008]

He is a new forest pony, only 13hands. Was bred on the forest and came in via the drifts. Was weaned with the breeder and then came to me and as I say he’s been good since then apart from in this training session.

New Forest ponies at adult age up (aged 11-12 onwards usually) do become the most amazing, easy child’s ponies. Many end up in very sticky situations before that though because they can be absolute horrors through the teenage years. I have three on my yard now. One was angelic aged 4, ditched a child badly at 4.5 and spent the next 18 months being a bit of a feisty madam, then being angelic for adults only until she hit the age of 11. Took a beginner out for a hack today like a pro. Another was spectacular even for an adult aged 5 and is now fast turning into an angel. The last was nearly shot - reacted to a badly fitting saddle by becoming dangerous on the ground. In the last year I have seen many ads for younger new Forest ponies who have run off with their riders or bucked them off or are being difficult on the ground and have had the vet checks done. We took in those we had space for and could help.

You have a breed who respects strength and will challenge you. I absolutely love them but give an inch and they will take six miles. Consistency is key and you cannot be afraid.

 

[JacquelineR]

I understand the fear from being kicked. WHen i got my filly in January she came from the paddock she had lived in her whole life, with her mum and another mare. She was bottom of the pecking order and had feed taken. She had few weeks to settle with me (I had been working with her for months already) and was then broken in then left again. In this time of great upheaval in her life kicking became her go to for anything she didn't like. She didn't actually kick me until she did....my fault - i fed her (head facing me) then walked away to feed my gelding and she spun and kicked (at him not at me) but she floored me with a boot to the back of the head which put me in the dirt hard enough to skin elbows and knees through jeans. No damage except a bruise but shock enough to make walking impossible for 15 minutes. It was pouring rain that day and I know i shouldve seperated them...hindsight hey?

Sorry long winded back story - anyway, i was really scared of her after that cos she was so quick to spin and kick and as she had kicked me in the head i knew she kicked high. Even rugging her scared me. Her breeder came to see me and her (she's a friend) and she gave me a piece of poly pipe and said to smack her if she starts to turn her bum - it makes a noise but does not hurt. She also told me to stop treating her like a princess, cos she needed a leader. That advice and the poly pipe did the trick.

So every interaction i had with her for the next little while, i carried the poly pipe...made things awkward at times but it gave me confidence. I never had to use it and actually she really settled and has not kicked since. I think the kicking was a reaction to all the changes in her life.

She has food issues and she also cannot have treats in the paddock.

 

[Red-1]

I'm another who thinks the trainer let you down.

personally, I prefer pressure/release as a training method. I have done clicker with a few horses. With one, in 3 sessions, taught one to fetch sticks, like a dog. Very amusing. I also taught H to race me to the mounting block and swivel into place for me to mount. Also 3 sessions and also very heart-warming. Rigs became confident with clipping using clicker, very nice. These were fab things to play at in a safe area. However, I was a professional to teach horses to behave in the most extreme of environments (Police horses) and found that, for behaviour that sticks under pressure, a more hands on guidance style of leadership (pressure/release) was more effective and less stress on the horse (they are told what to do when under pressure, not having to decide for themselves where a wrong decision would be dangerous).

For a start, when doing treatsies training (as I have christened it) the first and most important thing it to teach the horse that treatsies only come when the head is not turned towards you. That was the first lesson, to keep the head straight, then click/treat. If ever the horse came to me to get treatsies, then a no no signal was given and all was still until the head straightened up. It was like doing a behaviour, having it marked with a clicker and then wait like a statue for the treatsie to follow.

I would say not to let your 6 yo child anywhere near a horse that has kicked. I wouldn't let her handle a 2yo anyway, tbh.

As far as the kicking, to me that is just a symptom of being bolshie not being nipped in the bud. I will probably get slated, but, for me, a 3 yo being trained will make mistakes. A kick is an awful thing, but you know how it came about. I would not be surprised if there were not a bite, a strike, a barge, a side swipe, a pull away... all in the future. Each behaviour may be tried and corrected. A 2yo is not a trained horse and will make a mistake.

I'm as worried about how worried you are after a kick as anything tbh. Especially when you know what happened. Even my saintly H had a period in his terrible 5s where he would rear and paw out (never making contact)and he even struck out with a hind hoof when learning to lunge. He is a kind and generous horse, but was a baby learning the rules. If I'd lost my nerve at the first sign of him testing boundaries, then I would have been no good for him. I did have help, I'm not as young as I was, LOL, but he didn't scare me per se. He was simply an immature animal, living his life to the best of his current knowledge and ability. He has made a wonderful horse who is teaching my complete novice BF to ride.

As you now are afraid, then I would get a god trainer in to help re-build.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

He’s on the whole well behaved to the point my 6 year old daughter can lead him. He doesn’t do a lot for his age and is left to be a horse growing up. I know I’ve done a good job with him. This was 10 minutes into the session and we had not done an awful lot. This came out of nowhere. I believe treats made him frustrated and annoyed so I will not be using these for any training purposes nor will I be using clicker training as a method.

It sounds as if he thought you were teasing him, to put it in easily understood terms. If you put your hand in your pocket, as if to give a treat and then didn't, he was somewhat justified in being pissed off. Not that he should have kicked you. I agree you need a better trainer and you need to become far more clued into his behaviour and warning signs yourself.

 

[Goldenstar]

I don’t handle two year olds much .
I handle foals and then handle minimally.
I would stop clicker training and handle him as possible for a while .
Don’t give treats in any form.

 

[HopOnTrot]

My mare is Forest born and bred and until she was 6 was no more than halter broken.

She’s the nicest horse you could ever wish to meet.

 

[JFTDWS]

I agree with a number of the posts above about not using food as a reward in these circumstances. It can work, but you have to be very good at timing and reading the horse - and it sounds like you've not had the best guidance there from the trainer, who let you down.

I would add that - from your posts - it's important to separate your human feelings about being kicked from the horse. You're upset, you're worried he'll do it again, you feel like you've screwed up - these are all reasonable feelings, and I understand why you feel that way. But you can't project them onto the horse, or let them affect how you deal with him. He's a horse, behaving in the way his brain tells him is appropriate at that moment. He doesn't understand your expectations or that what he was doing wasn't ok - he was just reacting to his situation. It's your job not to let him end up in that situation again. Training younsters is best approached with a degree of detatchment.

 

[jhoward]

I don’t feel like he was pushed and the only signs of frustration was that he was getting quite bolshy with the treats. I was also working with a trusted instructor so believed they would have picked up on any warning signs.
I am worried he thinks I’ll come baring treats and if I don’t give them to him he will kick out again.
He’s been so good for the years I’ve had him I never believed he would kick me tbh.
Not sure how I would deal with it if he kicked me again to be honest.
I would seek help from another instructor I think.

Well the instructor didn't pick up on the signs did she?
A 2 year old needs to be in a heard of youngsters where they learn boundaries

Can you imagine clicking training a 2 year old child? They just don't have the brain space to digest what's being asked, or the concentration to process it.

And no offence but being scared and wary around any animal at any age is setting you both up to fail that pony will pick up on your feelings before you realise it.

Id suggest just let him.be a pony, do the basics but leave the obstacles and treats for another year.
Keep things short and sweet, feet picking up, grooming etc. Short and sweet. And don't expect perfection yet.