How to stop a biting horse!

[Oliviabuttons98]

Hi I have recently purchased a new horse about 5 months ago and the last couple of moths he has started to bite very aggressively! Just when I go to open his stable door brush him tack up ect ears right back head forward and goes to nip. Sometimes it's very painful and I don't know weather it's to protect himself or being aggressive and weather I should bite back smack ect or just say no as smacking or shouting dosnt seem to work and I'm getting fed up ! Thanks

 

[Shadrid]

Sounds like he is unhappy about something rather than just being nasty. Maybe just try to break down everything you do into little chunks to find out what it is. Is he better outside the stable?

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Depends on the cause of the biting. My boy did when he was a colt.

Many NO!!!! smacks on the nose - and me biting is ear few times stopped it

don't feed from the hand what ever you do.

when my boy gets too * gobby* when giving him a treat I close my fingers and gently rap his nose and say *gently* only then do my fingers open. Also I taught him to open corners of his mouth for a treat so my fingers are safe

 

[texel]

A few questions;

1. do you keep him at a livery yard or at home?
2. How was he the first few months ?
3. When you approach the stable door is he there waiting with his ears back ?
4. what is he like leading and outside the stable ?
5. How much turnout does he have ?
6. How have you reprimanded him ?

 

[Oliviabuttons98]

Thanks and I'm not sure of the cause seems like he's being defensive and sort of saying stay away he flicks his tail too and stomps his back foot

 

[Oliviabuttons98]

He's kept at a livery and fine fine first couple months could be a bit nippy on the odd occasion but never aggressively and he goes out at 8 and comes back in around 6/6:30 so long as I'm not riding and I always make sure there's plenty of hay however he is used to being kept on grass as that's where he's been the last 4 years

 

[Oliviabuttons98]

And yes I Normally shout and smack his neck but didn't seem to be doing a fat lot and is ears are forward when he's at the stable door until you get to close or try to come in then there straight back and he will shake his head and try to bite

 

[Oliviabuttons98]

And he will put his ears back in the field but is no where near as bad as in the stable

 

[Shadrid]

He's kept at a livery and fine fine first couple months could be a bit nippy on the odd occasion but never aggressively and he goes out at 8 and comes back in around 6/6:30 so long as I'm not riding and I always make sure there's plenty of hay however he is used to being kept on grass as that's where he's been the last 4 years

So he's possibly showing his reaction to change of circumstance which is ok because we all go through changes but we all react differently.

Obvious question sorry but are his saddle/teeth//back/ checks all recent?

 

[Shadrid]

So he may be displaying a reaction to change in circumstances which we can all understand i.e new job, new boss , new boyfriend etc.

Obvious question sorry but are his teeth/back/saddle checks recent?

 

[Oliviabuttons98]

Yes had his saddle done today and teeth and back last Wednesday and he has ulcers from his teeth being too sharp but he hasn't shown any improvement since which I was hoping that it might help however vet did say it could take 3 weeks for them to go down

 

[Shadrid]

Sorry for double post. I haven't any experience on ulcers so i hope someone with experience of this can help you but I have started using clicker training in last 18 months on my UBER nappy bargy mare of 8yrs and it has changed our relationship from ok to fab

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Yes had his saddle done today and teeth and back last Wednesday and he has ulcers from his teeth being too sharp but he hasn't shown any improvement since which I was hoping that it might help however vet did say it could take 3 weeks for them to go down

Well there is your answer. He has been anticipating the pain of you pressing on his mouth with the bridle or headcollar. Please give him 3 weeks off work to recover from his ulcers and then make sure that you have his teeth done often enough for this to never happen again.

 

[NJJolly]

My mare started this kind of behaviour around 6 months after I bought her.....she was horrible - ears back, trying to nip a lot (even when being brought up from the field), not nice to catch, and bargy and rude in the stable. I found out that she has arthritic changes to hocks and grade 3-4 stomach ulcers, and once she started treatment and her tummy wasn't sore, she was almost a sweetheart again....however, she had been allowed by me (novice, first time owner) to get away with her barginess etc, and so I asked my very experienced friend to help me give her some manners and teach her to respect me....she is definitely getting there - I can now pick all four hooves without a fight/drama, and put in a hay net while she stands at the back of the stable and waits until I tell her she can approach. I read Kelly Marks 'Perfect manners' which really helped me with being the herd leader and not taking any nonsense from her as well as improve my relationship with her. So there may be a physical reason, but sometimes we allow such behaviour too - not saying you are, but I certainly did.

 

[Penny Less]

My old horse used to bite, he was well known for it with previous owner. I used to keep a small water pistol in my hand when he went to nip me I squirted him on the cheek. I only had to have the wp in my hand and not use it after the first few times. He had various investigations to see if it was pain related etc, but we came to the conclusion he was just a miserable git !

 

[Brightbay]

It certainly sounds like defensive aggression - the horse is concerned that what is about to happen is either frightening or will cause him pain. Horses learn this due to previous experience.

The problem is that many people respond to defensive aggression with defensive aggression of their own - they smack or hit the horse, chase them to the back of the stable or do other behaviours they have been told "demonstrates leadership".

In fact, what is now happening is that the horse has learned that they are correct in their belief that when someone approaches their stable, something unpleasant will happen.

So even if the pain issue (can be ulcers, teeth, poorly fitted tack) is resolved, you are still left with a horse who is anticipating a worrying encounter. If you keep smacking, chasing back, making yourself big etc. while the horse is in a confined space where they can't escape, the horse is left with their remaining natural responses to frightening situations - freeze or fight (i.e. by having them in the stable, you've eliminated their opportunity to use "flight" - they can't get away).

Many approaches actually try to induce "freeze" - where the horse goes to the back of the stable and stands with head low. This appears desirable to us - but in terms of the horse's emotional response to being approached by a person, you haven't improved things. This is why horses like this can sometimes continue to be defensive in the field - they do not have a good expectation of being approached by a person, but in the field they know they still have the "run away" option if their "you're scary, keep your distance" message is ignored.

The best thing to do - once you are absolutely sure you have eliminated pain - is to make your approach to the horse pleasant, and to make sure you only approach the horse when they're doing something you want or behaving in a way you want. Don't punish when the horse is not acting the way you want (all you do is make them more certain that they are right to try to chase you away). Instead just stay away from the stable and only approach -to be nice to them - when they are standing quietly, with a calm expression.

 

[Darbs]

This is extremely useful, thanks for such useful responses, great forum. We are not horse owners yet, but are building up to it so trying to hoover up as much information as possible so that we go into it with our eyes wide open when we eventually get a pony for our daughter. Thanks to everybody who takes the time to impart their knowledge and experience, it is appreciated!

 

[madlady]

Yes had his saddle done today and teeth and back last Wednesday and he has ulcers from his teeth being too sharp but he hasn't shown any improvement since which I was hoping that it might help however vet did say it could take 3 weeks for them to go down

There is your problem - he has been sore in his mouth and trying to let you know that he's not happy about it.

please don't put a bridle on him for at least 3 weeks and be aware of how your headcollar is fitted - it would be better to loosen of the nosepiece if you can so that you are absolutely sure that it isn't pressing anywhere on the sides of his head where the ulcers are.

You may have to do some work with him when you are sure that the ulcers have gone to reassure him that the bridle isn't a scary painful thing that he needs to protect himself from - you won't be able to do that though until you are sure that the ulcers have gone and he isn't in pain any more.

 

[Dry Rot]

Some of these threads are so good they need to be archived . Can that be done?

 

[Doormouse]

I know at this stage with him feeling very defensive of his mouth this may be difficult but if you possibly can, try to syringe some salt water into his mouth, it will help a lot with the healing.