How to stop the naughty bucking?

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Jericho

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Bit peeved as we bought a supposedly PC schoolmaster for my 10 yr old about 10 weeks ago and I feel like we have been duped. Rode him a couple of times before we purchased both hacking, in open field and in a school and over jumps but they wouldn't let us trial him. He passed a vetting and I took a decent reference on him from their PC DC who said she had seen him buck once in three years on landing over a particularly large xc jump.The owner was clearly too big for him and outgrown him. They were honest to a point where they said once the jumps got to 1m he did occasionally put a buck in after but he didn't do it on the lunge/ free jumping so just put it down to the fact that tall rider was unbalancing him on landing over larger jumps and daughter isn't jumping or wanting to jump 2ft 6 anyway in foreseeable future.

10weeks on and after a few rallies etc we are learning that his bucking is much more - it varies from taking off in a field with a volley of bucks, tripping and bucking!, jumping a 2ft jump and bucking, being asked to canter and bucking, hacking out and bucking when cantering, bucking if other horses trot past. The bucks aren't particularly nasty ones - more bounding about with nose to the ground although he has put in some real bottom up ones when particularly excited. Daughter is trying to be brave after numerous falls but I can see confidence ebbing away and now don't trust pony not to do it. Bang goes a fun care free summer of PC....

I don't think it's pain related - physio and saddler have been booked anyway and was told it was all checked prior to selling. He seems fine otherwise, moves beautifully with swinging back and works very well if a bit lazy generally. Lovely in stable etc. perfect except from this cheeky bucking. Sadly we met some one who knew him previously and they said oh yes he does have a bit of a buck on him.... I even said to the seller who was very well spoken, seemed utterly genuine and experienced, please be totally honest with me as I am putting my most precious child on this ponys back - can you look me in the eye and say that he is safe? And she did...

I don't know what I was hoping for by posting - advice on how to stop the bucking, do we perservere (he is perfect in any other way), do I have any comeback on seller? Reassurance that it will be ok? Just have a feeling that although he is obviously starting to test daughter out, there is obviously a default buck reaction and I am not happy...
 
I feel for you. My daughter is 14 now, but was 10 when we put her on what we were told was a total saint. (Mind you I should have twigged when told the rider had lost confidence...) Anyway some thoughts...

Get teeth, back and tack checked. Back and tack probably the most important - even if he came with the saddle. I'm sorry to say it but I have very rarely seen a pony come with a saddle that actually fits! The weight of the larger rider may have kept his back down and he is reacting to a lighter rider by bucking up. Also the larger rider might have been able to get his head up a bit more. Obviously if there is a pain or physical issue then you can deal with that. Did you have him vetted?

Speak to your DC and see if there is a more experienced but still light rider who might ride him for you to see what happens. Sometimes ponies used to a firmer or more experienced rider will mess about with someone lighter or less experienced. I know we've done this for several in the past. If he doesn't buck with the more experienced rider then you know it is "just" an experience issue which can be overcome - although you don't have to!

Many new ponies go through what I call the "naughty pony" stage when first bought - usually starts about 2 weeks after going to the new home when they realize they are not being ridden by the old owner anymore and they want to see what they can get away with. This might be where you are right now. Only you can decide if it is something you can work through. An instructor may help.

Assuming the seller was private you have very limited legal recourse - but pony club reputation is important and they may well be prepared to take him back and try again. Your DC might be able to speak to their DC too.
 
I really feel for you and your daughter, but it sounds like you were very thorough when you bought him, and from what you have written it still sounds like a genuine sale to me.

It often happens when a pony has been ridden by an older child and then is sold to teach another child. Ponies do test children out, and to be honest ten weeks isn't that long to still be getting used to a new home and rider.

I bought a schoolmaster pony for my then 8 year old and boy he tested her out, but after 8-12 months together he was back to being the pony that we originally tried, if that makes sense.

If the pony is really scaring your daughter then maybe you should move him on.

With regards to the bucking, if your daughter sticks it out she will learn to sit up and keep his head up. from what you have written it doesn't sound like the pony is actually trying to dump her. It will teach her how to be a super rider though if you do persevere.
 
poor you, i feel for you as well. Its so hard to find a very genuine pony. I’ve learned over the years that when you really are trying to ensure get the right pony and can’t take on any niggles. then any little ‘something’ that comes up like them telling you he had bucked occasionally on landing would be enough to put me off, no matter how honest they seemed. A little occasional buck on landing to me translates as what you’ve got now, unfortunately :(

I had the same recently with one who I was told very occasionally with a really novice rider might have a little nap when cantering out on a hack... a little nap that was really ‘nothing’ and only ever happened when the pony wasnt in work. That translates to everytime it was ridden, first opportunity the shoulder went, it started to bronc and try and take off for home.

I would cut your losses before your daughter loses any more confidence and it’s still early enough in the year to salvage your summer plans. Poor you :(
 
I've seen so many kids with this problem at pony club - buy a new horse and go through a phase of falling off/struggling to cope. Our chief instructor always said that it takes a year for a new combination to get together - sometimes the ones who find it easy to start hit the rough patch later on, some ponies test the riders out straight away. ESPECIALLY the ponies who are a bit more talented and have been winning with previous riders!!

Ultimately it is up to you. If daughter is petrified and you are not happy, then sell him. However all ponies will test their riders at some point, and be careful you aren't teaching your child that if it gets difficult it can just be sold on. Only you knows the severity of the situation.

I almost sold my horse last summer when he was bucking a lot, and I was coming off all the time, and he was stopping dirtily at fences too. I got regular lessons with an instructor who had experience of sharp, difficult horses, and nine months later he's winning and scoring highly at prelim unaff, scoring decently enough at BD prelim, and flying round XC (SJ is still a work in progress but all improving).

In my lad's case, a new saddle, a new very good EDT and a few visits from an osteo and a physio helped IMMENSELY in addition to the lessons. Personally, I'd cover all those bases, get a good instructor, and persevere for a few months (possibly with the experienced light rider helping out too a mentioned above). If no improvement, then I'd call it quits - but your daughter may overcome this which will in turn improve her confidence no end and teach her some useful skills.
 
Put grass reins on him to stop him being able to get his head down and keep her on the lunge and in secure environments until she gets to grips with him and he learns he cant get away with it
 
I'm another who says this isn't a particularly unusual situation and it likely was a genuine sale. Even the nicest horse is still a horse, with a brain, feelings etc. and it will behave differently in different situations. You have only to trawl through this forum or spend time on any yard to see how many people struggle with a new horse. It's become fashionable to blame the seller but, in my experience, that's actually not usually the whole story. I'm not saying you're doing wrong by the horse, just that changing hands is not always a smooth process. In fact, I'd say it's not USUALLY a smooth process.

Is the horse currently being managed - fed, worked, handled - similarly to his old situation? Have you had another, more experienced rider on him, preferably your child's instructor? Have you tried tinkering with his management routine, allowing for the fact that spring is in the air and a lot of horses have been feeling cheery the last few weeks?
 
Yep I would say this is testing new owner or smaller rider. Does an adult or older child rider him now? If not definitely get someone in. It does sound like it was a genuine sale to me.

I watched some gymkhana classes at the weekend and a larger thick necked pony with small child there was being an absolute turd. The child simply did not have the physical ability or body weight to keep its head up from bucking, the child came off and got a hoof to the belly (although very good sport and got back on), so I say grass reins are a good idea. They ended up putting the older sister on and he tried it but then of course realised and got on with it.

I got put on a few bucking ponies I was miles too big for when I was younger, I simply weighed them down I think and they weren't able to pull me over their heads! Little rotters!
 
TarrSteps said:
I'm another who says this isn't a particularly unusual situation and it likely was a genuine sale. Even the nicest horse is still a horse, with a brain, feelings etc. and it will behave differently in different situations. You have only to trawl through this forum or spend time on any yard to see how many people struggle with a new horse. It's become fashionable to blame the seller but, in my experience, that's actually not usually the whole story. I'm not saying you're doing wrong by the horse, just that changing hands is not always a smooth process. In fact, I'd say it's not USUALLY a smooth process.


Is the horse currently being managed - fed, worked, handled - similarly to his old situation? Have you had another, more experienced rider on him, preferably your child's instructor? Have you tried tinkering with his management routine, allowing for the fact that spring is in the air and a lot of horses have been feeling cheery the last few weeks?
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Thanks for all your replies. Its kind of reassuring that the general consensus is that he is just testing her. I really really want to think that the sale was genuine. Its just that it obviously is his party trick and had I known that it would happen not just over bigger jumps then I would probably have walked away. Oh well, I'll get him checked out anyways. He is a really lovely pony, very safe in traffic and neither spooky or strong and is teaching her lots (including that falling off happens!) as he has been there done that and got the tshirt. I have ridden him a couple of times, once after a particular scary series of bucks and he was very good, didnt put a foot out of place but I am too big for him (12 stone, 5ft 7 on 14hh) to do more than walk trot or canter (nor do I particularly like jumping anyway!) I have considered getting a more experienced smaller rider on him regularly but I wonder if he realise and know who is riding and who he can be silly with. The good thing is that my daughter adores him and has absolutely no intention of giving up on him - its just a bit sad that she was desperate to really get cracking with her cross country this year (and one of the reasons we bought him) and I cant see me trusting him in the forseeable to let her do that.

Grass reins is a very good idea for faster work when out hacking and will probably help a lot. In terms of management, he is out at night, in during day at the moment to control grass intake (was out 24/7 when we first had him but was stabled 24/7 with previous owner) and fed handful of cereal and molasses free chaff with mag ox, yeasacc and vits and mins. Grass has gone a bit mad and turned my mare into a loony so I suspect the grass isnt helping. Thanks for all your replies.
 
My first pony knocked me out when I tried him out bucking me off. For some reason my mother thought it was a good idea to buy him because he would teach me to ride. However, it absolutely ruined my confidence and to this day, I have a total fear of being bucked off. Not helped by having my leg broken by a bucker a few years ago!!

It is a very fine line keeping a pony that bucks because it can ruin your child's confidence so easily.

It turned out that the pony hardly bucked if I rode him bareback so it was clearly his saddle that was hurting him but 30 years ago all saddles fitted whatever horse/pony they were on!! I rode him bareback a lot and never ever with a saddle. Slightly limited what i could do on the pony but still!!!
 
Your comment about the grass rang some bells - especially if he was in most of the time in his previous home. It can make the sweetest horse horribly above himself - my laid back, gentle 6yo QH is currently obsessed with his grazing and what is going on in the field as well as being uncharacteristically strong. Can you strip graze your fields using electric fence and let another horse really eat down a patch for him to go out on over the next few weeks ?
 
Just another thought to add to those already given. My pony did a similar thing when I put him on loan to a young rider. I knew he could be a bit cheeky on the ground with children but he had always been fine when ridden. The loaner's mum rang to say he was bucking with her after jumps and through the canter transition so I went to see what was going on. It turned out it was the change in contact that he didn't like. The child was a nice little rider but was holding a slightly firmer contact than pony was used to, perfectly understandable given the fact they were still establishing a partnership. However, the pony was feeling slightly restricted on his jump into canter so was bucking to try to free his head. Also on landing after the fence, I tend to 'over-give' the reins whereas she was holding on, not jabbing him badly but enough for him to react with a buck, again to free his head. Might be worth checking with yours, pony's are clever and sometimes take it upon themselves to make 'corrections' ! Once my loaner started to trust him more and give a slightly more relaxed contact he stopped bucking completely.
 
I feel your pain.We have had exactly the same thing with my 10 year old's loan pony.I know his owners are truthful about him,and he rarely bucked with them,but was bargy.He isn't bargy with us,but has started being naughty at PC.Once he'd decided he'd done enough,he'd try and tank and buck.The first time he did it,she was too scared to canter him again,but continued riding in trot and jumping.We assumed it was a one off as he'd previously been good,if keen at rallies and was perfect at home.

However,the next rally came and 40 minutes in,he did the same thing.Another mum suggested grass reins crossed over at the pommel and attached to d rings.That meant he couldn't get his head down to buck,a pelham has sorted out the tanking,and my daughter was able to canter the naughty old thing around and around without him being able to object.He was furious,you could tell by his face,but he had to do as he was told and she got some lovely work out of him after that.He hasn't needed the grass reins at home,or lessons,but I keep them handy and if he tries it again,back they go.I am not sending him back unless she no longer wants to ride,as whatever else we get will try and push it's luck at some point and we'll be in the same situation again.

Let us know how things go?
 
Shay said:
I feel for you. My daughter is 14 now, but was 10 when we put her on what we were told was a total saint. (Mind you I should have twigged when told the rider had lost confidence...) Anyway some thoughts...

Get teeth, back and tack checked. Back and tack probably the most important - even if he came with the saddle. I'm sorry to say it but I have very rarely seen a pony come with a saddle that actually fits! The weight of the larger rider may have kept his back down and he is reacting to a lighter rider by bucking up. Also the larger rider might have been able to get his head up a bit more. Obviously if there is a pain or physical issue then you can deal with that. Did you have him vetted?

Speak to your DC and see if there is a more experienced but still light rider who might ride him for you to see what happens. Sometimes ponies used to a firmer or more experienced rider will mess about with someone lighter or less experienced. I know we've done this for several in the past. If he doesn't buck with the more experienced rider then you know it is "just" an experience issue which can be overcome - although you don't have to!

Many new ponies go through what I call the "naughty pony" stage when first bought - usually starts about 2 weeks after going to the new home when they realize they are not being ridden by the old owner anymore and they want to see what they can get away with. This might be where you are right now. Only you can decide if it is something you can work through. An instructor may help.

Assuming the seller was private you have very limited legal recourse - but pony club reputation is important and they may well be prepared to take him back and try again. Your DC might be able to speak to their DC too.
Click to expand...

This!
 
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