How to stop youngster pawing at things??

[Jenna1406]

My youngster has got into a habit of kicking the stable door or pawing the ground or generally just lifting her front leg. She isnt doing it out of badness but I think it is an attention seeking thing.

How do I get her out of this habit? I have tried ignoring her, telling her off, being tied up with others and on her own. She stops it as soon as you look at her. Its frustrating!

Help

Jenna

 

[JillA]

It is normally attention seeking and has probably got reinforced in the past. Your choices are ignoring or aversion therapy - we sorted one by ACTIVELY ignoring, i.e. turning and walking away the instant she started. Otherwise something she doesn't like - water pistol for example, but they soon learn if you aren't available to do that. You have to be consistent though, if ONCE you reinforce by giving attention or food you will strengthen the behaviour (look up random schedule of reinforcement).

 

[Kylara]

Need to actively ignore - when she does it turn away and walk away, when she stops return and give attention.

You can also put rubber matting on the door to stop the noise which she could be using as reinforcement.

Also make sure others on the yard know what to do if horse does it near them

Whatever you do, be consistent

 

[Jenna1406]

It is normally attention seeking and has probably got reinforced in the past. Your choices are ignoring or aversion therapy - we sorted one by ACTIVELY ignoring, i.e. turning and walking away the instant she started. Otherwise something she doesn't like - water pistol for example, but they soon learn if you aren't available to do that. You have to be consistent though, if ONCE you reinforce by giving attention or food you will strengthen the behaviour (look up random schedule of reinforcement).

Thanks for that. Someone did mention a water pistol to me and I think i might give that a try as well. I have walked away from her and stood within ear shot to make sure she is ok but she keeps banging until you return again.

Will get myself a water pistol and try that.....hopefully she doesnt like it.

Jenna

 

[Jenna1406]

Need to actively ignore - when she does it turn away and walk away, when she stops return and give attention.

You can also put rubber matting on the door to stop the noise which she could be using as reinforcement.

Also make sure others on the yard know what to do if horse does it near them

Whatever you do, be consistent

Thanks, I have said to as many people as possible to just ignore her when she is banging. She will stop eventually as I leave her in the stable when I ride my other mare and she will stop banging until she hears you walking back (school isnt too far away from the stable block).

Rubber matting on the door might be a good idea, whilst it is frustrating the noise is horrible as well.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

I threw hoof picks at mine.......after the forth one he figured out it was too much effort trying to paw and dodge the flying things :/

 

[smokey]

Water pistols and hoofpicks? Seriously? You threw hoofpicks at your horse? Not sure the end justified the means there!

 

[Carrots&Mints]

Mine paws, i just ignore him usually! Other day he put his leg on the wheelbarrow whilst i was mucking out and then decided to knock it over! naughty pony

 

[PorkChop]

i would ignore - put something on the door so that it lessens the noise and softens the blow

 

[Clodagh]

I have never thrown a hoofpick but many brushes have gone hurtling over.
I don't know how they have fixed them but a friend has put broomheads, the bristly ones, on her stable door so if horse kicks them door it is uncomfortable.

 

[stilltrying]

As others have said its attention seeking, assuming it stops when you aren't there. Mine is the same - will bang, weave...throw buckets at people to get attention when he is bored. So whilst it is undesirable behaviour, ask yourself why she's doing it in the first place. is she getting enough turn out / has she got something to eat at all times? Mine will stand for a bit but once he's bored he will do anything to get your attention. Drives him mad if i walk across the yard to stop and talk to someone! He huffs and puffs and weaves like an animal possessed! So i try and make any yard time as fun as possible for him. So he's always got something to much on / has snack ball when stabled in winter etc etc.

 

[Jenna1406]

Thanks for the replies.

Stilltrying - she is turned out 24/7, only comes in to have some TLC occasionally really, she has grass in her paddock and is getting fed once a day (vet told me she isnt allowed to put more weight on as she is a good weight for coming into winter and being a 2 yr old). She loves a fuss and doesnt like the other horses getting the attention. She will scream when I take my other horse out of the field but will settle eventually, she used to paw the electric fencing until she got a good zap of it.

The water pistol thing sounds like something to try as I try to ignore her but she will bang until I come back in but might have to at the weekend wait her out when I have more time.

 

[samlf]

A lot of youngsters grow out of it, provided you aren't reinforcing it.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Water pistols and hoofpicks? Seriously? You threw hoofpicks at your horse? Not sure the end justified the means there!

its not aimed at their heads, a quick shock out of the behaviour and its stopped. my horses are all confident and not head shy or spooky at all. its better that hitting, just a quick lob round the corner at the legs.

 

[Spring Feather]

I have to say, not all youngsters do this thankfully, as this has to be THE most irritating thing they could ever do imo. My youngsters don't tend to do it as they've lived their whole lives outside but I have had my fair share of youngsters who have come from places where they've been stabled as part of their daytime/night-time routine and it bugs the life out of me! I do tell them off! After a while of consistently telling them off they do generally improve.

 

[PolarSkye]

A lot of youngsters grow out of it, provided you aren't reinforcing it.

Well that (not reinforcing it) is - to state the bleedin' obvious - the key.

Pops doesn't kick the stable door (wouldn't dare!) but he does paw . . . and it's a horrible habit. At our previous yard the only place to tie up was to fences so low that he could either get his leg over his leadrope or over the fence - and he did - often. Thankfully, he never panicked so it wasn't a danger . . . but it did mean that every single time he did it, he got attention, which only reinforced his motivation for doing so (attention). Where we are now, he is safe to be tied up and if he paws I ignore him. He did try rearing as an escalation . . . we've nipped that in the bud (effective management) but I have NEVER thrown anything at him . . . although I will admit to flicking water towards his head with the hose if he paws while he is having a bath - which has resolved that particular issue.

P

P.S. Kali isn't a youngster . . . he's 15.

 

[blitznbobs]

I say AH AH AH (short a)v loudly for anything I don't like and if I really don't like it I growl... She stopped with in 10 days and no violence needed... The volume is important and also praise when she stands still which is the bit most forget

 

[Kylara]

There's a difference between ignoring and actively ignoring. You need to make a point of turning and walking away when horse does it. Then return and give lots of attention and praise when horse stops the undesired behaviour. Praise the good behaviour whenever it is exhibited.
Also some horses bang the door because thy like the noise so a mat/padding on it will reduce that reinforcement It shouldn't take too long and you can also do active training sessions with horse:
Stand next to stable facing outwards. Whenever pawing/banging starts turn and walk away, then return to praise good behaviour, then reset to standing looking out next to the stable, immediately praise good behaviour and repeat active ignoring for bad. Do this a few times every time horse is in and it should get better

 

[Jenna1406]

There's a difference between ignoring and actively ignoring. You need to make a point of turning and walking away when horse does it. Then return and give lots of attention and praise when horse stops the undesired behaviour. Praise the good behaviour whenever it is exhibited.
Also some horses bang the door because thy like the noise so a mat/padding on it will reduce that reinforcement It shouldn't take too long and you can also do active training sessions with horse:
Stand next to stable facing outwards. Whenever pawing/banging starts turn and walk away, then return to praise good behaviour, then reset to standing looking out next to the stable, immediately praise good behaviour and repeat active ignoring for bad. Do this a few times every time horse is in and it should get better

Thanks for this.

Breagha will not bang the door if you are next to her so walking away like that would be hard but will try waiting her out before going back to her. Will start this weekend as ill have more time to be patient.

 

[noodle_]

i used to lob water at mine who did it.[pure attention]

she got immune to that so then brushes [her brushes] started flying - i got a pretty good shot....but she was awful - she used to stomp/stretch and generally be a pita - even with a haynet

shes aproper person horse so wanted attention

she does it occasionally now -shes almost 4 , but a grumble now stops her....mostly

 

[Persephone]

I put a slip rail inside my stable door. Because of the pillars inside it held it just far away that it was a real effort for her to kick the door. When tied on the yard, never anything in reach and an AH/BRR to stop the behaviour. This was eventually reduced to a hard stare!

 

[Kylara]

Thanks for this.

Breagha will not bang the door if you are next to her so walking away like that would be hard but will try waiting her out before going back to her. Will start this weekend as ill have more time to be patient.

That's ok. You might find that standing next to her door and facing out not looking at her might cause her to start banging - it is imperative that you stand looking out and not at her and then reward her when she exhibits the good behaviour by giving her attention (fuss, verbal praise) then reset to looking out, not at her and then walking away from bad or praising good
if she doesn't bang at all then do the same exercise but stand further away.

Patience is key! If you go back before she stops pawing/banging that reinforces that the behaviour gets attention - positive or not. Some horses don't care if they are being told off as that is still attention, whereas the actively ignoring gives them no positive reinforcement. They are clever and she should learn fairly quickly that the banging is no longer an acceptable behaviour, but that standing quietly gets her a lot of praise and fuss!
Just be patient and really over do the fuss when she is good

Good luck!

 

[Midlifecrisis]

Like many others I actively ignore - in fact if gelding kicks door I spin right round immediately and go out of sight--even if I have his dinner in my hand. My mare used to kick door too when see could see me around the yard - as soon as I was out of sight she stopped. Ive put a coir doorstep mat (large one from Aldi with no edges) on the inside of the doors to deaden the sound and reduce any damage to legs.

 

[NZJenny]

We don't stable here, but my gelding used to paw in the yard. I just used to find myself a comfy seat in the sun, collect a handful of pebbles and lob them at him every time he did it. Worked a treat.

I had another horse who used to kick the back door of the float. We hung a bag of gorse on the door. She stopped - might be a cheap, easy solution for the stable as well.

 

[Echo24]

Mine does this! No amount of shouting or telling off works. He started doing it the minute I walked into the feed room! I now completely ignore him and he does stop. It's often an impatient, attention seeking thing and I found chatting to liveries and ignoring him works Hopefully he will outgrow it!

 

[smokey]

its not aimed at their heads, a quick shock out of the behaviour and its stopped. my horses are all confident and not head shy or spooky at all. its better that hitting, just a quick lob round the corner at the legs.

Can you clarify please?do you mean you are actually aiming for their legs? Sorry, I don't understand, if you are throwing something at their legs, surely its no better than hitting? Or am I missing something?

 

[Jenna1406]

thanks for everyones suggestions

 

[Doormouse]

I say AH AH AH (short a)v loudly for anything I don't like and if I really don't like it I growl... She stopped with in 10 days and no violence needed... The volume is important and also praise when she stands still which is the bit most forget

I do exactly the same and find it works a treat. I also do the same with my dogs and with my daughter! I don't know why that AH AH AH (short A) works so well but it always seems to focus their attention immediately on you and they stop whatever they are doing.

 

[PolarSkye]

I say AH AH AH (short a)v loudly for anything I don't like and if I really don't like it I growl... She stopped with in 10 days and no violence needed... The volume is important and also praise when she stands still which is the bit most forget

But what if the horse is doing it for attention? Surely that's still a reward? I know Kal's antics are to get my (or someone else's) attention so the ONLY way to solve the problem is to ignore him. If I speak to him or look at him, I am rewarding the behaviour by giving him what he wants . . . my attention.

P

 

[Kylara]

so the ONLY way to solve the problem is to ignore him. If I speak to him or look at him, I am rewarding the behaviour by giving him what he wants . . . my attention.

P

Yup, any response is rewarding (even throwing things or "Ah Ah"s- you are paying horse attention) - as I mentioned earlier, even negative attention is rewarding. Ignoring is lack of response, lack of attention - it shows the horse that that behaviour will not get any response other than being deprived of attention - and that will retrain the behaviour as long as attention is given when horse is doing desired behavior.