How to teach a new horse trot with rider on?

[Piksija]

Hi! I have a wonderfull Lithuanian draft mare Pixie, almoust 4 y.o. Month ago started to ride on her. In walk she work wery well, but we have problems to get in trot. I dont know is she dont understand me or dont want go in trot. In lunge i can get her in trot and when my trainer walk from back with whipe she is trotting with me to ? But she is kind of slow horses by shes nature, i newer saw she is cantering ?

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Can you get your trainer to lead her in trot with you riding her while you give the vocal command that you usually use to ask her to trot on the lunge?

I would love to see a photo of Pixie, I used to have a Westphalian Draft horse, she was magnificent!

 

[ycbm]

I would hack her out with another horse and get the horse in front to trot off. I would also love a photo.

Welcome to the forum!

 

[Cortez]

Can you ride her on the lunge while your trainer lunges? That way you can give the aids at the same time as your trainer and she will learn to respond to the rider.

 

[Piksija]

Thank you. I think then go to the forset with another horse in front of she is realy good idea how to put in trot without extra presure?
I cant find where i can add a photo ?

 

[Leandy]

Can you ride her on the lunge while your trainer lunges? That way you can give the aids at the same time as your trainer and she will learn to respond to the rider.

This. And hacking also yes but I would want the horse to have acquired a basic understand of the rider's aids from work on the lunge and then to be able to start, stop, steer reasonably reliably in the arena or other enclosed space in walk and a steady trot prior to taking it out in the open.

 

[Piksija]

Yes she is trotting with me wile trainer lounging her and even without longrain, but i think she is trotting because trainer asks her, not me.. she understand signal from leg, can start walk and add speed from this. But when i ride alone, nothing is hapening, even worst, when i try to ask trot, she slows down an getting angry. Maybe she will understand it by the time? I dont like to push her, because i feel it impress to our relationship overaly, she is not coming to me with such a joy as earlyer, and its sad.. this week i am working with her from land, walk to forest and so.. sunday we will have lesson with trainer, hope it will go better.

 

[Piksija]

 

[Piksija]

 

[Piksija]

 

[Leandy]

You must teach her not to ignore your leg aid. If she basically knows what it means then you need to be clear and firm and she needs to react to it. Start to carry a whip, to replace the one your trainer has when lunging, so you can back up your leg aid. So give a light aid, if she ignores, repeat it clearly and firmly. If she still ignores that then a sharp tap with the whip. You can also use your voice, in the same way as when lunging. You must get a reaction each and every time so she learns not to ignore you. Allowing her to start ignoring the rider at this early stage is not being kind to her, it is doing her a major disservice. The very best thing you can do for a horse is to train it clearly to be obedient both ridden and on the ground and a nice animal to be around.

 

[Pinkvboots]

If she understands voice signals use them with your leg ask with a light aid to start with and if she doesn't respond use a stronger leg then if she is ignoring your leg back up with a stick just behind your leg, praise when she actually trot and do lots of transitions trying to encourage her to trot from a light leg aid.

 

[Cortez]

Sometimes you have to MAKE them do things, and your job is to make that happen. You cannot be too soft, and she's not there to be your "friend".

 

[Gloi]

She is lovely ?

 

[stangs]

What exactly is she doing when you add more leg? If she’s slowing down, ears back, then I’d be worried there’s a pain or saddle fit issue going on. When she trots with an instructor behind, is she happy about it or is it a very unwilling trot? Especially if she’s never active when turned out - that’s not natural for a horse, so would make me suspicious of there being a physical issue.

If it’s not a pain thing, I’d use the Mark Rashid method for teaching her the leg aid. Squeeze, release pressure if she walks any faster. Then squeeze again after a few strides and keep building up until she breaks into trot. If you’ve been using vocal aids with lunging, use them too. The aim is not escalating pressure and rewarding often.

 

[Leandy]

You must teach her not to ignore your leg aid. If she basically knows what it means then you need to be clear and firm and she needs to react to it. Start to carry a whip, to replace the one your trainer has when lunging, so you can back up your leg aid. So give a light aid, if she ignores, repeat it clearly and firmly. If she still ignores that then a sharp tap with the whip. You can also use your voice, in the same way as when lunging. You must get a reaction each and every time so she learns not to ignore you. Allowing her to start ignoring the rider at this early stage is not being kind to her, it is doing her a major disservice. The very best thing you can do for a horse is to train it clearly to be obedient both ridden and on the ground and a nice animal to be around.

Sorry, I should have added that it is very important to be clear with the aid, but also then to sit still when she responds appropriately. Taking off the pressure again and being still is her reward for responding to the leg (you can off course also pat and praise with the voice also especially to start with). It is important that the timing of this is clear. Aid, response, sit still. She needs to learn to keep going on her own without you continuously pushing her along.

 

[Piksija]

What exactly is she doing when you add more leg? If she’s slowing down, ears back, then I’d be worried there’s a pain or saddle fit issue going on. When she trots with an instructor behind, is she happy about it or is it a very unwilling trot? Especially if she’s never active when turned out - that’s not natural for a horse, so would make me suspicious of there being a physical issue.

If it’s not a pain thing, I’d use the Mark Rashid method for teaching her the leg aid. Squeeze, release pressure if she walks any faster. Then squeeze again after a few strides and keep building up until she breaks into trot. If you’ve been using vocal aids with lunging, use them too. The aim is not escalating pressure and rewarding often.

Yes, she is slowing down and move ears back, somethimes tray to snif (?) my leg.. when we trot with trainers asistance ears is forvard and speed of trot is ok, somethimes my 10 y.o dauther is troting on she when im lunging her, probobly she simply dont respect me ?

 

[Piksija]

 

[stangs]

Yes, she is slowing down and move ears back, somethimes tray to snif (?) my leg.. when we trot with trainers asistance ears is forvard and speed of trot is ok, somethimes my 10 y.o dauther is troting on she when im lunging her, probobly she simply dont respect me ?

Horses don't really have a concept of respect, so it's definitely not that. If she's alright with your daughter on her, it might be that there's a saddle fit issue that a lighter rider like a child makes less noticeable so she's more willing to move forwards.

 

[Gloi]

She probably hasn't understood that your legs mean go forward yet and is simply being grumpy wondering what you are doing to her . I'd do more work on the lunge in conjunction with being asked on by your instructor until she understands.

 

[Piksija]

Horses don't really have a concept of respect, so it's definitely not that. If she's alright with your daughter on her, it might be that there's a saddle fit issue that a lighter rider like a child makes less noticeable so she's more willing to move forwards.

Hmm.. i can try ride on bare back then to see if problem is there ?

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

She is gorgeous but it would seem that she doesn't understand what you want, so you will need to teach her by introducing leg aids to the vocal aids that she does understand. But it is possible that she has discomfort/pain somewhere, maybe associated with the saddle fit.

 

[ycbm]

View attachment 89977

The big difference between you and your daughter apart from her size, is that she has the reins in loops and you look as if you might be giving her signals that you don't actually want her to go forwards. I would see what happens when you give her more rein (not necessarily in loops).

 

[Piksija]

Hi! Today was a training for Pixie only with trainer on.. she made her move in good speed trot, but also said, then need to check a saddle. It is difficult to find right saddle for draft horse, because she is so round.. im gonna ride on bare back now and search for another saddle for her.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

The big difference between you and your daughter apart from her size, is that she has the reins in loops and you look as if you might be giving her signals that you don't actually want her to go forwards. I would see what happens when you give her more rein (not necessarily in loops).

Yes, you need to forget the idea of 'an outline' for now, give her more rein to allow her to go forward, she may want to 'jump' forward into trot as a response to your leg aid and if your contact is too strong, she won't be able to do so.

 

[Leandy]

Horses don't really have a concept of respect, so it's definitely not that.

I beg to differ. They most definitely do. Many a horse will behave perfectly and do as it is told for one person but not another. The difference is that for the first person they know that doing as asked is not optional so it is easier just to do it. The second person they have learned that it is possible to ignore if they want. I would call that respecting the first but not the second.

 

[stangs]

I beg to differ. They most definitely do. Many a horse will behave perfectly and do as it is told for one person but not another. The difference is that for the first person they know that doing as asked is not optional so it is easier just to do it. The second person they have learned that it is possible to ignore if they want. I would call that respecting the first but not the second.

You yourself disprove the idea of horses ‘respecting’ people in your example. The horse you describe performs a behaviour because they know that it’s “not optional”, and with someone else, they refrain from the behaviour because they know that it is optional. Aka your example shows a horse performing behaviours based on a history of reinforcement, not a horse performing behaviours because it holds one person in higher esteem than it holds another (the definition of ‘respect’).

If you really believe in horses respecting people, then how does the horse decide who deserves more ‘respect’?

‘Course, call behaviours and emotions what you want as long as you’re not abusing your horse to get them. But given that ‘respect’ in equine training historically stems from dominance theory, which a) has been repeatedly proven as BS, and b) is used to justify many abusive training techniques, I struggle to understand why people continue to use this anthropomorphic, completely unquantifiable concept in reference to equid behaviour, when there is so much reliable research available on equid ethology and cognition that explains behaviours instead.

 

[Cortez]

You yourself disprove the idea of horses ‘respecting’ people in your example. The horse you describe performs a behaviour because they know that it’s “not optional”, and with someone else, they refrain from the behaviour because they know that it is optional. Aka your example shows a horse performing behaviours based on a history of reinforcement, not a horse performing behaviours because it holds one person in higher esteem than it holds another (the definition of ‘respect’).

If you really believe in horses respecting people, then how does the horse decide who deserves more ‘respect’?

‘Course, call behaviours and emotions what you want as long as you’re not abusing your horse to get them. But given that ‘respect’ in equine training historically stems from dominance theory, which a) has been repeatedly proven as BS, and b) is used to justify many abusive training techniques, I struggle to understand why people continue to use this anthropomorphic, completely unquantifiable concept in reference to equid behaviour, when there is so much reliable research available on equid ethology and cognition that explains behaviours instead.

Word salad. Horses either do things they are trained to do or they don't. Use whatever choice of human words you wish to describe that action and the reasons for it.

 

[tristar]

i would long rein her well forwards on straight lines do several walk to trot back to walk halts and repeat in a session, because with long reining its easier to get the trot transition understood on a horse who is new to work

some horse are more forward thinking than others, if not thinking forwards, i use a whole leg persistent aid, wrapping my leg round the girth area, sometimes a gentle bang.

she is unfit, and needs to learn not obedience per se, but to work with her rider because that is her job, make sure when you ask her to go forwards you allow your hands to be very giving. its too easy to clutch at a newly broken horse out of fear it might explode

horses often choose who to respect, they have highly developed senses of who they are dealing with and pick up telepathic intentions and nervousness in the rider, and can tell when someone with a firm seat and clear intentions means it compared to a passive rider

 

[sbloom]

View attachment 89967

Hi! Today was a training for Pixie only with trainer on.. she made her move in good speed trot, but also said, then need to check a saddle. It is difficult to find right saddle for draft horse, because she is so round.. im gonna ride on bare back now and search for another saddle for her.

Saddle is definitely an issue, you can see here how the flaps, and the rider's leg, are over the shoulder rather than behind it. There are specialist brands for wide horses, drafts, natives and cobs, have a look on here https://www.facebook.com/groups/1641386762817197