How to teach horse to tie up solid?

Needs cross tieing as no partition.

But that asides it's still bad manners and the point of the post was how to teach to tie "solid"!
 
bollybop said:
Needs cross tieing as no partition.
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Then put him in the trailer, have someone close up the ramp then cross tie him. He cannot run backwards if the ramp is right at his backside.

But that asides it's still bad manners and the point of the post was how to teach to tie "solid"!
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And you've been given lots of advice, from all different perspectives. There's not one suggestion which would work for your horse?
 
Yes some good ideas, such as two ropes and the Jason Webb thingy, but tieing him up solid in the yard won't do anything as he won't pull back!
 
Polos Mum said:
Travel him loose then, with sensible partitions just lead him up the ramp, get someone to shut the partition/ ramp and unclip leadrope
Why does he need to be tied up at all in a trailer/ lorry?
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Ha this! I have to confess when I travel alone I load my horse then leave him untied whilst I go out and shut the back bar and ramp. I have on more than 1 occasion then forgotten to go back and tie him up and he was still there when we got where we were going!!
 
I've got one of the Jason Webb things, and it seems to work fine.

My mare's another one that pulls back because she can. There's no panic, just a gentle walk backwards until something gives, then she stands there looking really pleased with herself.

When I tie her up with the gadget, she just has a go, fails, then goes back to her haynet.
 
The cheapest and easiest way is to tie up to three loops of bailer twine (halved, obviously), each one of varying lengths. Horse pulls back, snaps the first (shortest) loop but is still safely tied up. If he tries it again and snaps the second loop, then there is still the third (longest) loop to catch him.
 
Just a thought, is he sore in his poll, neck or withers at all? As this can sometimes cause a problem, they pull a little and put pressure on the poll, then suddenly BANG pain in the poll, horse shoots backwards and legs it from what he believes to be the source of his pain.

ETA just read the rest of the threads and he's OK on the yard, so maybe not... he may be a bit claustrophobic, they are "designed" to live in wild open spaces and being shut in a trailer tied up is not something that comes naturally. You've got loads of great suggestions here to try though
 
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WelshD said:
How badly does he pull back? if he only does it till he is free then doesn't go far it may be worth trying the technique where you run a long rope through a ring on the wall and hold the end of it (rather than tying) so he learns that he is still attached if he pulls back and once he stops you can gently encourage him back in to position so he realises there is no benefit to pulling away and no fight

Obviously if he pulls back and legs it that's a bit of another matter

Don't get yourself hurt and wear gloves and a hat!
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This :) I've seen this work!
 
I don't think above will work..

Shall I phrase my question a slightly different way?

My horse ties up on the yard brilliantly. Will stand for quite happily for ages (have tried and had a haynet), one happy horse.

However horse has learnt that he can just snap bailer twine when presented with something he doesn't like.

The behaviourists first step to curing this was to teach him to tie up solid, which I agree needs to be done. The only way of seemingly doing this with my horse (as he knows how to tie up properly) is to ensure we are in a position where he can't snap anything, then goad him into having a tantrum, so he starts pulling back, then him realising it doesn't get him very far.

It's this last bit that I'm struggling with. Flapping a whip around is not a good idea, as he isn't keen on them, and this being done with him has made him worse. I need to make him try and pull back, but not in a way that will upset or frighten him, as it makes the problem worse?

Is that a better explanation ?
 
Waving a whip to make him pull back is a bad idea so I can agree with you there. other than the trailer is there anything normal that would make him do it on the yard eg hosing his feet off or putting fly spray on? something like that would be very normal that he should stand for so you could use that sort of thing to make him want to get away but have him tied to a solid point? if he is in the trailer with the breech bar done up behind him how does he pull back on the tie? I am having a problem picturing what he actually does
 
Get in transport, tie up, pull and yank, snap twine, bog off.

That's a very good though about doing something normal. He's not overly keen about having his hooves washed, and certainly doesn't pull back much at all, does jiggle around. Our wash box has rubber matting in it as well... That's a thought if I tie him up in there he won't injure himself!
 
What happens if someone holds the horse while the ramp is done up? Is the problem during the time while someone walks to the ramp to lift it or does the horse do this when ramp is opened (or both?)

is there merit in feeding the horse in the trailer with the ramp up or even down maybe?
 
bollybop said:
Get in transport, tie up, pull and yank, snap twine, bog off.

That's a very good though about doing something normal. He's not overly keen about having his hooves washed, and certainly doesn't pull back much at all, does jiggle around. Our wash box has rubber matting in it as well... That's a thought if I tie him up in there he won't injure himself!
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I would have a bucket with some feed or carrots in it so when he goes in he has something to eat until someone puts the back bar and ramp up behind him if its a trailer or shuts him in if its a lorry and make sure he has a net to travel with. sounds like he needs some time to train him to think of it as a nice place to be and that he is not going to get away. for training I would have him on a long line attached to a be nice or rope type control halter so that you can stop him if he does go backwards and get him straight back in again then when he stands quietly you can get the back bar and ramp done up so he cannot go backwards. how is he once he is in and the back bar and ramp are closed?
 
Loading into my transport needs work, I'm aware of that. The first part is to get him to learn that pulling away is not an option (away from transport). Then can move onto the actual loafing part.

He's perfectly happy going into other transport, as previously mentioned, but will still have a paddy whack on the odd occasion.
 
Do you not have someone putting the breech bar up behind him? I appreciate that you need to be able to do this alone, but at this point, when he will not stand tied up in the trailer - trying to do it alone isn't really an option.
 
Auslander said:
Do you not have someone putting the breech bar up behind him? I appreciate that you need to be able to do this alone, but at this point, when he will not stand tied up in the trailer - trying to do it alone isn't really an option.
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This will be worked on, but the first bit of the equation is to get him tied up without pulling back.

He needs to learn that he should stand where he's put, and stay there until I say otherwise.

Once he's happy doing this, we can progress shutting in etc.
 
bollybop said:
This will be worked on, but the first bit of the equation is to get him tied up without pulling back.

He needs to learn that he should stand where he's put, and stay there until I say otherwise.

Once he's happy doing this, we can progress shutting in etc.
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That wasn't what I was saying. If he immediately pulls back, then you're never going to get anywhere unless you have a breech bar behind him. He knows he can get out at high speed, and there's nothing stopping him, so he's just going to keep doing it. I agree that he needs to learn to stand, and stay put, but that isn't what hes learning at the moment - because nothing is preventing him from doing it his way. If he' doing it because he's being stroppy, not because he's frightened, then shutting the breech bar shouldn't be a problem.
 
Maybe the other way around to what you are thinking (OP) may help? Rather than thinking that he should stay put when tied up would peoples suggestion of getting the breach bar quickly fastened be worth a try - its similar to tying up solid in the sense that he cant go anywhere, stay at his head to reassure him and leave the ramp down maybe?

If he wont load in your trailer at all I saw a useful technique at a demo the crux of which was while they even look at the trailer you leave them alone and stand still eventually they will realise that by going in they have it easier - a google would probably pull up the full strategy
 
bollybop said:
This will be worked on, but the first bit of the equation is to get him tied up without pulling back.

He needs to learn that he should stand where he's put, and stay there until I say otherwise.

Once he's happy doing this, we can progress shutting in etc.
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I think the first thing is to get him confident in the box, it is all very well saying he should do as he is told but he is a horse who will at times think otherwise and take flight, as he stands tied up everywhere else it is the box that is worrying him so the work needs to be building his confidence setting him up to succeed not to fail in another place, I suspect that a few positive loading and travelling experiences will help if you have someone to assist with the loading initially, reward when he loads, it is one time when I treat mine and they all load and tie up sensibly.
 
bollybop said:
This will be worked on, but the first bit of the equation is to get him tied up without pulling back.

He needs to learn that he should stand where he's put, and stay there until I say otherwise.

Once he's happy doing this, we can progress shutting in etc.
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No, I'm sorry but that is not the way to go to break this habit when loading.

You should load him and shut him in, then tie him up then go for a drive, it is by far the safest option. Obviously you will need a helper for this at first to raise the ramp while you hold him in place with a titbit. In the trailer you should have ropes already tied in place so that you can simply clip them onto the headcollar, unclip the lead rein and get out through the jockey door. Don't faff around, be totally matter of fact and get on with it, don't hang around chatting outside the trailer once he's in. Once you've done that a few times (and he's happy about it, then when you get back, you can take a little longer to unload him; even a few minutes extra each time is progress and the same goes for once you've loaded him, take a little longer to move off but not enough to make him fret. They soon learn if you don't give them the option to misbehave.
 
I agree, so far you've veto-ed every suggestion and I don't know how you think you're going to move forward. You might have to take many smalls steps towards the end goal rather than one step to achieve everything, which as of yet, no-one can think of.

So am I getting this right?

He ties up fine on yard and in stable.
He loads okay.

But in trailer, once loaded (and with back ramp still open) he pulls back, breaks twine/rope/headcollar and makes a break for it out the back of the trailer? Surely shutting the back would effectively stop this behaviour in it's tracks? It's a first step at least, to break the trend? Is he the type to panic if he feels confined? Does he travel okay? Does he stand tied okay in stressful situations, aka in new places? Does he understand the concept of yielding to pressure in hand?
 
If I'd wanted loading questions for my horse I'd have asked.

As I have previously stated the first thing that my horse needs to learn is that pulling and yanking won't get him anywhere. He has learnt from previous owners that by throwing his weight around he can get away with it.
 
Spring Feather said:
I've only ever seen this problem in the UK. Over here most horses are taught to tie to something solid and unbreakable when they are young and it seems to work as I never ever see horses pull back when tied. My own horses I teach to tie with unbreakable halters and rope to something that will not break after doing all the usual teachings of pre-tying. This method is not de rigueur in Britain however.
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Always did my youngsters like this too.

Made me exasperated when I had show liveries in which had learnt bad habits, generally it didn't take them long to get the idea of standing ties tho :)
 
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