How true is alfalfa reactivity?

[Pippity]

I read an article by David Marlin saying there was no truth in it.

However, I started Blue on an alfalfa chaff at the weekend. On Wednesday, she was extremely spooky and reactive to ride, ending up with me coming off. Unfortunately I knocked myself out in the process, so can't remember too much.

I popped on her again last night for 20 minutes of walk, and had three massive spooks that would have had me off again if it hadn't been for sticky-bum jods and my oh-crap strap.

This is EXTREMELY out of character for her. She worst she'll normally do is plant or a small swerve, and she'll do her best to take me with her.

Obviously she's coming off the alfalfa immediately and, if she isn't back to herself in a few days, I'll get the vet out. But can alfalfa really cause that much of a change?

 

[Palindrome]

Not sure about behaviour but I have one horse who gets something similar to mudfever on his leg (possibly photosensitivity) only when he gets alfalfa.

 

[Fluffypiglet]

I know that there is zero science behind this but I wouldn’t feed mine alfalfa again - it was like he was plugged into the mains electricity! He is always quite spooky but this was something else. Back to normal knobbish behaviour as soon as his diet was changed.

eta and I like DM and entirely get that it doesn’t make sense but I can only go on my experience. It was someone else who had met my horse previously and was gobsmacked at the change in him. we were meant to be having a jumping lesson and the trainer said they would come back once he was off the alfalfa… I was just relieved that I wasn’t imagining things and that my horse could be very easily sorted.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Sorry about your fall.

Once I inadvertently gave the saintly IDx a half mugful of alfalfa pellets in her feed. I did realise at the time, but rather than chuck the feed away (I'd already mixed them all up), I fed it to her anyway.

She went bat sh1t nuts for about 48 hours - never seen her like it before or since.

So yes, I do think that it can send some horses loopy.

Bizarrely, the formerly feed reactive sports horse mare with hind gut issues thrives on alfalfa. It was her pellets that I accidentally fed to the IDx. Equibiome recommended that she has some, I thought 'Oh yeah', but she was grand .

 

[Flowerofthefen]

Sorry to hear about your fall.

Were you feeding pure alfalfa? He did say a reaction to alfalfa was rare but a horse could react to the added oil or molasses?

 

[ycbm]

My appyx was a nightmare on alfalfa and a saint when not on alfalfa. There are far too many anecdotes about this for it not to be true.
.

 

[stangs]

Good old David Marlin, expert on everything. I thought it was pretty commonly understood now that some horses are sensitive to alfalfa, thus making them uncomfortable when fed it and so more likely to have a behaviour change.

Were you feeding pure alfalfa? He did say a reaction to alfalfa was rare but a horse could react to the added oil or molasses?

The majority of feeds have added oil and/or molasses though.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

Good old David Marlin, expert on everything. I thought it was pretty commonly understood now that some horses are sensitive to alfalfa, thus making them uncomfortable when fed it and so more likely to have a behaviour change.


The majority of feeds have added oil and/or molasses though.

Yes they are which is why some people avoid certain oils and molasses. Not saying David marlin is right or wrong, just saying most alfalfa feeds have some other ingredients added. I didn't feed my boys alfalfa for years as I was worried about the affect. I couldn't get my normal just grass feed so tried alfa a oil and they are both thriving on it. They also have alfalfa pellets. It's horses for courses as with most things!!

 

[cauda equina]

There may be no objective studies into alfalfa idiocy but I've seen enough of it in my own horses to never feed the stuff again in any quantity
When used as a base in supplements eg Acid Ease I've had no problems feeding it but in bigger amounts the spookiness in normally sensible horses has been unmissable

 

[Pippity]

Sorry to hear about your fall.

Were you feeding pure alfalfa? He did say a reaction to alfalfa was rare but a horse could react to the added oil or molasses?

It was Bailey's Alfalfa Plus Oil, so I suppose it could have been a reaction to the extra energy.

 

[DabDab]

There is A LOT of anecdotal evidence from the broad equestrian community that alfalfa can cause reactivity in some horses.
On what basis DM was stating that science didn't support it? (Asking as I don't know anything about the science specifically of alfalfa either way)

 

[Widgeon]

There is A LOT of anecdotal evidence from the broad equestrian community that alfalfa can cause reactivity in some horses.
On what basis DM was stating that science didn't support it? (Asking as I don't know anything about the science specifically of alfalfa either way)

In the absence of better evidence (which would be great to have - you'd think it would be a very easy trial to run), the anecdotal evidence does seem to suggest that some horses do react to it. I'd love to know the prevalence though - none of the dozen or so horses on our yard react to it. They're all on Alfa-A Original.

 

[PurBee]

The only major biochemical difference i researched about alfalfa nutritionally, is that a large percentage of the proteins in alfalfa are broken down by bacteria in the hind gut. Alfalfa is one of the high protein forages available too, so there’s that to consider. Whereas majority of hay proteins get broken down by foregut bacteria.

Hence a horse who isnt used to alfalfa hasnt got those particular hind gut bacteria present to digest it well, and likely to experience hindgut bloating/cramping/discomfort and behaviourally change. A bit like when most horses suddenly get a change of feed, there can easily be gut distress, and temporary accompanying behavioural change, until their gut adjusts to it - which is why most advice is to make feed changes slowly.
Maybe your horse with hind gut issues @Tiddlypom wasnt affected because she is used to bacterial imbalance symptoms, and the alfalfa intro doesnt throw her individual biome so out of whack?

Its likely the alfalfa sensitive horse would eventually settle on it, as the gut adjusts its bacteria to accommodate the new food - but a fair few owners experience quite severe loopiness they remove the new feed immediately (understandably!), and we never get to know if they would adjust, and how long that would take.

I see the gut biome like a cinema with billions of seats, to view the film - the film being the food going through the gut in this analogy. All the seats are filled with varying groups of bacteria that digest sugars/proteins/fats ect, some help manufacture vitamins etc - they all seat where they are ready for ‘their film’ (food) to be shown to them and they get to work. When a film (food) is shown to the audience of bacteria that theyve never ever seen before, there’s a riot! All the bacteria respond to whatever is fed to them, and theyre used to their usual film roll. But a new food/film - There’s a bad response. This new film/food requires a new kind of patron, different type of bacteria, sometimes the food comes with its own prebiotic to make its own bacteria and the rioting is unbelivable as the new guys fight for biome seats, and there’s much jostling of the cinema seating-arrangements. Some established members have to even leave (die-off), to allow room for new members to have a seat to work for the new food. The result of this reaction to new food, especially a hind gut protein, which is a fairly rare food, causes gas/indigestion, light spasms, general pandemonium on the tiny bacterial scale. Homeostasis can be reached again, but that takes time, and dosing carefully so a less chaotic reaction occurs.


Quite a funny analogy but you get my gist!

The only other thing about alfalfa is its a high calcium feed. So there’s that mineral angle to consider.

I was thinking of trying mine on alfalfa as i found a great quality organic source of it, but was concerned about it nutritionally and the common reactions, so researched it quite deeply. The major differencence between that and hays/grains are high calcium and high proteins which many of them require, unusually, hindgut bacteria to digest.
(I didnt end up trying mine on it as source was limited to buying 1 tonne as a time, which was a gamble if they didnt do ok on it).

 

[Widgeon]

(I didnt end up trying mine on it as source was limited to buying 1 tonne as a time, which was a gamble if they didnt do ok on it).

you're right, that is quite the gamble.

 

[Chianti]

Years ago I switched my first horse from Dengie HiFi to Alfa A. Within a couple of days she was rearing in hand and generally messing about so changed her back. Her behaviour went back to normal fairly quickly. Current pony has sweet itch and I tried him on a chaff with it in and I do think he itched more.

 

[HappyHollyDays]

I have one that tried to sit on the bonnet of a passing car when I inadvertently gave him some alfalfa. He was lathered in white sweat before I’d even got off the farm and it was the most terrifying 20 minutes of my life. He is also exactly the same with clover so I don’t give a fig what DM says some horses react to it in the extreme.

 

[Pippity]

Years ago I switched my first horse from Dengie HiFi to Alfa A. Within a couple of days she was rearing in hand and generally messing about so changed her back. Her behaviour went back to normal fairly quickly. Current pony has sweet itch and I tried him on a chaff with it in and I do think he itched more.

HiFi nowadays does have alfalfa in, so I wonder if the recipe's changed since you were using it, or if it was just the volume of alfalfa? It would be lovely if I could have her on the HiFi, because she eats that with great enthusiasm, and there isn't much that she does!

 

[Chianti]

HiFi nowadays does have alfalfa in, so I wonder if the recipe's changed since you were using it, or if it was just the volume of alfalfa? It would be lovely if I could have her on the HiFi, because she eats that with great enthusiasm, and there isn't much that she does!

It's a long time ago - in the early 90s. The thread bought back the memory of me trying to bring her in from the field and her having a hissy fit. She could be that way inclined but the Alfa A definitely tipped her over the edge! Feed is such a nightmare. I think part of the problem is we now have too much choice.

 

[blodwyn1]

I had fed hifi for years to then discover that the alfalfa in it definitely made my sweet itch mare worse! I switched to honeychop light and healthy and her itching got better almost overnight!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Mmmmm, DM obviously never met our 2nd Appaloisa mare - she couldn't tolerate carrots either.

Only very recently my new GP told me that there is no scientific reason for me to react to maize, over 20 yrs since the allergy consultant that my previous surgery referred me to, told me that was one of the causes of my various debilitating symptoms. I am afraid that pleasant as he is, he has fallen into a similar category as DM in my mind.

I prefer to listen to my horses they really are the experts in their own bodies.

 

[YorksG]

We have had two appys who alfalfa was not good for at all, however we had a Welsh xtb who could not cope with grains or sugars who could eat copious amounts of alfalfa.

 

[cauda equina]

Mmmmm, DM obviously never met our 2nd Appaloisa mare - she couldn't tolerate carrots either.

Only very recently my new GP told me that there is no scientific reason for me to react to maize, over 20 yrs since the allergy consultant that my previous surgery referred me to, told me that was one of the causes of my various debilitating symptoms. I am afraid that pleasant as he is, he has fallen into a similar category as DM in my mind.

I prefer to listen to my horses they really are the experts in their own bodies.

Or perhaps there is, but scientists just don't know what it is yet
Not knowing about something is no reason to dismiss its possibility; if everyone did that there would never be any new discoveries

 

[spacefaer]

I had a Connie/TB mare who couldn't tolerate standard molasses based mixes - she evented to Intermediate on a scoop of Alfa -A and enough pony nuts to give texture.
Had another KWPN mare who would try to extricate herself from her skin with the force of her acrobatics if she had a hint of alfalfa. She was definitely an ulcery candidate though. (Her owner never tested her) She also couldn't tolerate sugar beet.
Who knows!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Or perhaps there is, but scientists just don't know what it is yet
Not knowing about something is no reason to dismiss its possibility; if everyone did that there would never be any new discoveries

You would think that a GP would take the opinion of a specialist Consultant seriously. I must admit that I was cross with the previous surgery too, as one GP did mention the Consultant when I was back there yet again with unexplained symptoms but dismissed his clinic with 'you come away allergic to everything'. She could have referred me at least a year before I finally was referred by one of her colleagues. And yes, I had reacted to *a lot* of common foods, which I still have problems with, if I relax the diet.

 

[Squidge_94]

So I started my young horse on an alfalfa based feed as he was looking a touch poor after a huge growth spurt.. he broke my hand and kicked the very centre top of my back, a little higher he'd have kicked me in the back of the head and with the force, I've no doubt I'd be dead!
Took him off the feed and my lovely boy returned and has since kept his rather powerful back legs to himself.
Coincidence or not, you couldn't pay me enough to ever feed him alfalfa again!
My other horse however, can eat anything and everything and never seems fizzy etc

 

[Sossigpoker]

It was Bailey's Alfalfa Plus Oil, so I suppose it could have been a reaction to the extra energy.

It's probably due to slow release energy from the oil and the high-ish protein content (IIRC) of alfalfa

 

[Caol Ila]

Alfalfa makes Fin into more of a spooky idiot than he already is. And it must be the alfalfa and not the molasses or whatever other ingredients go in there, because he's had other feeds with that molasses or what-have-you and been totally fine.

David Marlin has strong opinions and many are grounded in science, but sometimes you need a few grains of salt. Purbee's theory makes sense. I guess we don't know if it causes GI discomfort, which makes them loopy, or affects something else, which makes them loopy. But there is a large body of anecdotal evidence suggesting that one way or another, it makes them loopy.

 

[YourValentine]

This I find interesting as I've had horses in many other countries where alfalfa hay and chaff is a dietary staple as the grass isn't as rich as here, and never heard of "alfalfa sensitivity".
Yes it is a very rich, high energy feed and not all horses need it but their reaction would be equivalent to shoving extra oats in their dinner.

So I would really like to see a proper scientific trial to rule out -
* Gut discomfort due to change in diet - would a switch to another high protein feed have the same effect?
* Elimnate other factors ie what inspired the change to alfalfa? What else is going on that maybe alfalfa is being blamed for?
* Is it just too much energy (combining quality grass, higher quality grass hay, than say in aus, and alfalfa) for a horse in an other wise light-med workload and not enough turn out to cope with hence the silliness?

Not to completely dismiss everyone experiences, I have had a horse go loopy on a different brand supposedly bland pony nuts, but how much is it alfalfa vs another factor.

 

[Caol Ila]

Alfafa hay was an option we had at my barn in Colorado, but most people did not use it and stuck to timothy hay. The people with poor doers or OAPs often used the alfafa. Some owners with good doers or younger horses found theirs went bananas on the alfalfa.

I could give my old horse (a poor doer, especially as she got older) all the alfalfa in the world, and it never affected her behaviour. In the last few years of her life, I should have been taking out shares in Dengie.

 

[Boulty]

IMO Some horses do seem to react to it even in very small amounts and some are absolutely fine on it and show no ill effects.

When the orange one was at Rockley can remember having a chat with Nic about it as he’d previously been reactive to alfalfa in chaff but she tends to include alfalfa pellets in her feeds (or did at the time) and he was tolerating them without issue. She had a pet theory that in some horses it might be what the chaff has been coated with or been treated with that causes the reaction as she’d come across quite a few that were affected by chaff but not pellets. (Including I think some of her own horses)

I do think that some horses do appear to react to the actual alfalfa regardless of what form it’s in. Not owned them but have met them.

Current horse is utterly unaffected by it but does not require the calories from it! (I think the molasses free HiFi he used to eat had some in but he’s on Honeychop light now as that’s what rest of yard eat)