How well do you expect field companions to get along?

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Not_so_brave_anymore

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I got a little Dartmoor mare for my kids at the start of the year. She was by herself for about 6 weeks, until I found her a companion who I now have on loan, also a mare.

The two ponies seem to be fine together, except when food is involved. They don't get hard feed, but they get hay in the field because they're both on restricted grazing. They had an almighty kick out the first day they were together, and my own mare came out on top,and since then they both seem to have accepted this. But once every 2-3 weeks they do seem to have a bit of a ding dong- often just ears back, squealing, backing up, but twice now it's escalated to properly double barreling and landing a kick or two. Both ponies are barefoot by the way. They calm down within a couple of minutes, and then stand happily side by side eating.

There's no risk to myself, I chuck the hay over the fence. Using several piles of hay seems to have really helped.

This is fairly normal, right?! Neither pony has ever threatened anything towards myself or the kids (I only bring one at a time onto the yard if the kids are grooming/riding, just to be safe, and they're literally good as gold). You guys know by now that I'm a massive panicker, so I just wanted to check whether you guys would class this as standard pony behaviour, or whether this is more confrontational/ highly charged than you would expect?

Fwiw, I know it might not have been the wisest idea to put two mares together, but they've both lived in various pairings/herds before. If I'd had free choice I might have gone for a gelding, but everything else about this loan mare works really well for me. She's a lovely little thing (it's my own mare who is actually the bully) she has very similar grazing requirements to my mare, she's come to me as a non-ridden companion (so I'm never worrying that she's "going backwards" or "being wasted" or any of that guilt trip!) and I get on really well with the owner, who is very local to me, which makes such a difference in a loan situation.
 
Yes, I think it's fine, since it's spring they will be coming into season so squealing is normal. Do you give food to the dominant horse first? That way she doesn't have to chase off the other one. That and enough space between the piles so she they can both eat quietly.
 
It is fairly normal, horses do not always like each other but is potentially dangerous if one day someone does need to go in or a child wanders in unnoticed, I wouldn't be too concerned about them doing any real harm but would try to intervene when it sets off, I expect mine to back off away from me if asked, even if they are eating and don't want to I will insist if I have decided for whatever reason they are moving away, it is usually enough to raise my voice but the odd time when I have needed to intervene I will use force, a feed bowl or bucket may be thrown with intent.

I think by just chucking the hay at them you are almost encouraging them to squabble, it means you are safe but gives them no reason to wait, keep back and be polite, I would be inclined to have a week or so where you do go in, make them back up and wait, if it is safer take one out and just deal with one on its own to start with, spread the hay into loads of tiny bits and let them work a bit more for it.
If they are getting stuck into a fight shout, yell, clap your hands something to make them listen to you, it may not work but most know they shouldn't be kicking and a loud reminder may shock them out of it, just do not get yourself in a position where you may get kicked, shouting from behind the fence, chucking a bucket of water or turning the hose on them from outside the field would also stop them in their tracks.
 
Hay seems to be the issue so you’re already doing what you can by making separate piles, but you could also separate them with a line to hay So it would cut that out.
 
It is good practice to put hay out in more piles than there are horses in the field, so that should have been done as a matter of course. I suggest that you follow bp's advice about taking one, or both of them out of the field before you put the hay in. We have 2 absolute best friends sharing a field, we often see them sharing a tiny pile of hay but that doesn't stop them occasionally pulling faces at each other about the hay, as they are turned out after coming in for a bucket feed/check over.

We had 2 other horses until a couple of years ago and they had to be kept separate from these 2 as one of each pair would fight over nothing very much. Neither had back shoes but we decided for safety to separate them before there were any injuries after the time when they knocked each other over like 2 sumo wrestlers (both big girls).
 
I'm fortunate in that my two girls get on fine; the only discord might happen at feeding times where the older mare can be dominant and pull faces at little'un, which is why I either bring them in to their stables to feed separately OR take down hay to the field and chuck it (over the fence, to keep me safe!) in small bits at intervals.

So, there being two horses, I'd tend to chuck about six different piles of hay over. That way they can't squabble. They are on a track system so I put piles of hay all around the track so they have to walk to get it!
 
Mares are usually fine together... it will take a while for them to sort differences. Resource hogging is definitely a thing so just try to keep squabbles down by seperating into more piles etc. They will settle eventually. All horses do.. they do this for many reasons.

We have two herds of 10 many coming and going regularly. The old timers don't seem to give a hoot who is where but the newbies always like to squabble :D... there's def a boss no matter what who intervenes but not in a couple situation like yours... they need time to properly iron things out. Otherwise you are going to have seperate...
 
I wonder how close friends you would be with someone after a few months, OP?

They'll be fine as they get to know each other better. Separate hay piles, feed the dominant one first, don't get between them.
 
My 2 ( one mine, one WHW youngster ) get on fine, and play each day. My arab will resource guard (me and food) and as the dominant one, will win, but never has to really tell the youngster (Welsh B, cheeky) too badly. I always put hay in more than one patch, and feed at a distance, with one or other on a headcollar. They stable together, lead, ride and lead, and transport together with no issues, and if I am poo-picking they can come up for scratches as long as they don't argue. If they do, both are chased away, and I don't carry treats in the field. I do treat them, but only on a specific command, and when they have behaved well and are having something done (feet, teeth, training etc ) - they aren't allowed to mug me for treats. Sadly, I didn't employ the same strict standards on the chickens, who regularly mug me and try to trip me over in hope of raiding pockets for goodies.
 
I think it's pretty normal for a bit of a squabble mine get hay in nets hung on a wall quite far apart, one is slightly more dominant and will chase the other one off a bit but they mainly stand quite happily and eat together, I know they like grooming each other in the field and scream when they are separated so they can't be that unhappy.
 
My two mares are really good together but at hay feeding time the younger, stronger companion pony does become more dominant. She is always told to back off and piles are put down well apart and hard feeds are fed in the stables only. It is only natural for one to be top dog (or horse!) and one has to take this into consideration at all times.
 
Thanks for all your replies. When I first got the second one I just followed the "number of horses + 1" rule for hay (ie 3 piles) but it turns out this still wasn't enough. I now do 5 or 6 piles and it seems to work better. If they do start pulling faces, or especially if they start swinging their bums I do give a firm shout, and clap/stamp my foot which often distracts them and stops it escalating. It's not a kick out every day by any means.

I could quite easily bring one in on the yard, and leave one in the field, maybe I'll start doing that. I can't do that last thing at night obvs, but they're always fine in the evening, it's only ever the morning that's the issue.

I guess I was just wondering "how bad" things would have to be before you went down that route, and how much squabbling youd ignore as just standard?
 
You may find that the hay piles being too close is an issue - I put mine a good way away from each other, so they have a huge personal bubble of space, and I give 4 for 2 horses - so even if stroppy elder one wants to eat one pile, and resource guard a second, he has no hope of doing all 4. I found if they were too close, they still argued. I ignore face pulling and bum wafting as I walk towards them with the hay/food, as they are establishing/reinforcing who is at pole position, but I expect them to stand nicely at the gate while I go in and sort out the piles, and expect them to give me the same respect/space they would the next animal up in the chain of dominace. Once I am gone, the arab picks his place, and where-ever he has chosen, the little welsh grabs one of the others. The arab isn't greedy, and once full, happily wanders off for a doze, and lets the welsh fill his boots - he doesn't guard beyond what he wants. I am sure that helps.
 
You’ve got the piles of hay right, but probably not the spacing. They need to be at least two horse lengths apart (more if you have the room).
 
My mares Little and Large are very happy together, but always get fed separately, as far apart as possible, there is a little tension at first and I have to brush the mini to keep her away from the big girl once she's finished her tiny portion to stop her stealing....she's so greedy.
 
Hmmm. A bit of a squabble is one thing but making contact double barreling would make me nervous.

My field gang have to observe the dominance of my old girl, the others know this but she generally just pulls a face or threatens to nip. The others are wary of her; when putting hay in I go in and marshall things. She knows not to get bolshy when there are people around and after the potential flash point of the hay being provided, they generally settle down with her just nudging the others off their pile periodically ?

I have one that will start a proper dingdong now and then. For her safety and everyone else's she always has her own paddock.
 
I have a mare that’s been here 5 months now and she’s definitely more likely to kick out than any of the others have. She’s probably been used to fighting over food and was always the dominant one and still is. It has got less as time has gone on, so I’m hoping she’ll stop eventually. I do wonder if some just do kick more than others? She also doesn’t do it all the time, just occasionally, but she is quite marish With the others.
 
Perfectly normal, as is squabbling over food. It should be standard practice to put out at least 3 piles of hay for 2 ponies (ie one more than you have ponies) well spaced apart (well out of kicking distance) so they both get a share without being in each other's space and the less dominant one gets her share.
 
I generally consider a bit of bickering normal in day-to-day herd life. Double barrelling shouldn't be "normal", but it's normal to have sporadic confrontation. Mine are pretty settled but at the end of last year, my mare seems to have challenged the prior hierarchy - we had a couple of double barrelling arguments. They've since settled down to their new normal, and flying feet are rare. She'd rather run backwards at him and threaten him than take lumps out of him, and he won't push his luck.

My rules are that there is never, ever to be any fighting around me, under any circumstances, and they all have to move away from me if I'm busy in the field. They're also not allowed to bicker with anybody who's wearing a bridle. I can use a lower ranking horse under saddle to drive a higher horse away from an area of the field, because their herd hierarchy doesn't apply when I'm on top.

I do find not having shoes on helps a lot - I've had a couple of fractures from shod kicks and nothing remotely so serious from unshod kicks, despite having had more horses unshod for longer and more individual kicking incidents unshod.
 
Sorry for not replying to everyone- I really do appreciate your comments.

I absolutely took on board that a lot of people said this isn't really ok, so I actually called my vet, because she knows the animals and the set up. She said she was surprised that tensions were escalating, so she suggested trying bit more forage- either moving the grass strip more often, or feeding more hay. I'm paranoid about laminitis, so I've opted for more hay overnight these last few days, and the ponies have never been more chilled out! Not even so much as an ear back.

I'll have to keep a close eye on their weight (they've both been dropping weight ever so slowly- one is a pretty good weight, but the other is still fat) and if their weight starts creeping up again then I'll start soaking the hay.

Seems as if the poor ponies were just too hungry. Oh well, live and learn I guess.
 
Not_so_brave_anymore said:
I'll have to keep a close eye on their weight (they've both been dropping weight ever so slowly- one is a pretty good weight, but the other is still fat) and if their weight starts creeping up again then I'll start soaking the hay.

Seems as if the poor ponies were just too hungry. Oh well, live and learn I guess.
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One of mine turns into a massive bitch when she's hungry too, thankfully the companion mare is very submissive and never fights back, but I feel your pain. Bitchmare would be the size of a house if I kept her as fed as she'd like to be!
 
Nasicus said:
One of mine turns into a massive bitch when she's hungry too, thankfully the companion mare is very submissive and never fights back, but I feel your pain. Bitchmare would be the size of a house if I kept her as fed as she'd like to be!
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same here. Mine look like hippos but one of them is truly horrible when she thinks she’s hungry. She’s much bigger than the others too which makes it worse.
 
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