How would a loan/share like this work? Does it sound like a good idea?

[jkitten]

I came back to riding last year and have been taking lessons at a riding school I really like (small, staff knowledgeable and kind, all horses attended to in great detail). I'm in my mid-30s so my hope was to keep the lessons up for about a year, then look to buy my own horse and keep it on either full or working livery at my riding school. I never really considered loaning or sharing an option, partly because of the countless horror stories I've heard, and partly because I don't drive, so my options would be severely limited.

However, recently I've started riding a horse at the school which is exactly the type of horse I would look to buy, mid teens smallish cob/ISH, forward but trying to please, a little green in the school but nothing I feel I couldn't handle with appropriate instruction (which I would obviously be getting as I would be continuing with my current instructor) and apparently a wonderful safe hack. He's calm and quiet in the stable, and also happens to be exactly my visual 'type'. I was actually really struck by him the first time I saw him in the field ages ago.

The horse's situation is that before he came to the riding school he was on loan and the loaner did not looked after him appropriately, leaving him with worms, pain from badly fitting tack, and a tendency to try to run everywhere. Once the loan ended, the owner put him on working livery with my riding school, and they spent about 6 months working with him and getting him back to being not a total novice ride, but still one an inexperienced person like myself can be confident with.

My thinking is, if he was out on loan before, the owner might be willing to loan him again, providing he stays on the current yard and they have oversight so that he doesn't end up in bad shape again. Any horse I would own, loan or share would need to be on full or working livery, since I would only realistically be able to visit and ride 3-4 times a week, usually in the afternoon, so if I had some kind of loan or share of the horse, not that much would really change for him or for the riding school. I'm considering broaching the idea with my instructor to see if he thinks there's any chance the owner might go for it, but I wanted to get some feedback here first, and some idea of how it would work. Would it be a loan or a share (since the horse would still be working in the riding school)? How would the division of responsibility work between the owner, me and the riding school? How much could I reasonably expect such an arrangement to cost (I'm in West Sussex)?

Many thanks in advance for any thoughts!

 

[bouncing_ball]

Working livery is normally a cost to owner. I’d try and find out what yard charge for a) working livery b) 7 day part livery.

The riding school might not be thrilled to lose him / lose some use of him as they’ve put the work into getting him suitable for use in the school.

Working livery tends to agree how much riding school can work him. But they are fairly likely to want weekends?

Riding school might agree to you part loaning him from them on set days? Particularly week days?

 

[ihatework]

You might find the RS gets their nose put out of joint if you try and pinch the horse they have been developing for their business!

Id probably approach it along the lines of would they consider a part loan scheme to you, whereby the RS retains overall responsibility for the horse but you get more access

 

[jkitten]

Thank you both! I remembered after posting that when I first started at the riding school they did tell me that the option to share one of their horses for a couple of days a week might be available. What they described sounds ideal for me in general, so I have written to them to ask if that would a possibility with this horse. Wish me luck!

 

[tda]

I think it sounds like a great idea, rs still get use of horse, and it's kept fit, you get a few days a week riding, something different than lessons, hopefully stop horse becoming sour

 

[Skib]

My experience of trying to share a horse on a RS is that it is very complicated due to the RS licence and RS insurance which requires students to be accompanied at all times by a member of staff.
If your horse is on working livery, the times will have been shared out by mutual agreement between the RS and owner and one would assume that your share could be slotted in to the owner's time, but it would need to be at the request of the owner and the share agreement would then follow between you and the owner.
If this were a fill loan of the horse to yourself, you would be reponsible for the cost of livery and the RS use (if any) would need to be arranged between yourself and the RS.
In my case, the cost I was quoted by the RS for sharing the horse, was out of the question since it equaled the cost of having 4 lessons a day on that horse for a half day share.
Riding schools are businesses. You really need to do the sums. I have twice had perfect RS shares but I have also twice had to say No.

I realise you are much attached to this particular horse but my wise RI said to me, Remember there are lots of horses in the world.

 

[jkitten]

Thank you for the perspective Skib! In this school's set-up I can have two days of sharing for the price of one lesson (since I always have private lessons), so from a cost perspective it is a good deal for me. I will definitely discuss the other points you raise with them if they agree that it could be possible.

 

[teapot]

My experience of trying to share a horse on a RS is that it is very complicated due to the RS licence and RS insurance which requires students to be accompanied at all times by a member of staff.

Not true at all! A RS may say that, but legally insurance and licensing wise there are zero issues when it comes to clients loaning rs horses, as long as contracts are in place, they're safe, the insurance covers 'livery' type activities etc.

Op - definitely ask re a weekday loan. Also depending on rs consider whether they'd need the horse as he develops/get better for school hols activities. Nothing worse than finding for half term/christmas/summer hols you won't actually be able to ride when you want to.

 

[jkitten]

Thanks teapot, I don't think my RS has that rule for sharers but I will check. TBH I am not worried about weekends or school holidays, those are times when I would prefer to stay away from the yard anyway, all those kids make me feel old! (Except summer of course but hopefully that could be worked out as it's longer.)

 

[Skib]

Not true at all! A RS may say that, but legally insurance and licensing wise

In my case it was true. The RS were honest with me and I participated in the insurance investigations. The RS was licensed as a RS but not as a hire or livery yard. I was at the point of buying the horse to overcome this difficulty (I had ridden her for 8 years) but she became unsound and was then injured in the field while resting and had to be retired instead.

 

[teapot]

In my case it was true. The RS were honest with me and I participated in the insurance investigations. The RS was licensed as a RS but not as a hire or livery yard. I was at the point of buying the horse to overcome this difficulty (I had ridden her for 8 years) but she became unsound and was then injured in the field while resting and had to be retired instead.

Unless we're talking years ago, that doesn't make any sense given the riding school license IS literally about 'hiring' of horses, and you need the same license whether you're a riding school or offering hunt hirelings. I know it well

ETS: may well have been like that back in the day, but any rs today under the latest licensing won't have that differentiation.

 

[Littlebear]

You might find the RS gets their nose put out of joint if you try and pinch the horse they have been developing for their business!

Id probably approach it along the lines of would they consider a part loan scheme to you, whereby the RS retains overall responsibility for the horse but you get more access

This was my first thought too x

 

[jkitten]

Thought I would update in case others are interested in pursuing something similar and want to see how it works out: I spoke to the yard owner today and came to a very mutually satisfactory arrangement whereby I share my boy two days a week and have a lesson on a third day, during which I will still groom, tack up and untack as I currently do (for most clients the riding school staff do this, but I've always liked to do it myself, so once they saw I was competent and happy to ask questions if I got stuck, they were glad of the free labour!). The cost of the share for two days is the same as one private lesson, plus one third of farrier costs. So for all intents and purposes, I would have him for three afternoons a week, at total of not much more than I am currently paying for my two private lessons a week. There is also an option to add a third share day later at proportionate cost.

Since three to four afternoons a week is the absolute maximum time I can currently dedicate, and since I would legitimately have bought this horse if I were looking (which I don't say lightly, I have ridden many over the years and only feel this way about one other or maaaybe two), I am counting myself very lucky indeed right now. The owner and the staff, including my instructor, also seemed genuinely happy and excited about the 'match', which was really nice and encouraging for me to see. There are no restrictions in terms of riding only when staff are present. I need to confirm on hacking specifically, the owner said 'you can hack' but I don't know whether they have a rule of two in general, so will check on that on Monday. I believe I have seen other people coming back from solo hacks though so am hopeful, otherwise I'll just have to adjust. Even still, I am trying not to get ahead of myself but if things go well I really think this could work as well or better for me personally than ownership, certainly for the next couple of years.

(And I promise to update if it doesn't work out, so that people can get an honest view of this kind of situation.)

Edit: Just to add the owner of the horse isn't a factor in this as as of today he is on full loan to the riding school.

 

[millikins]

What a good outcome, I hope it all works well

 

[Lois Lame]

It's fantastic.

I'm like you, jkitten. It's very very very very very few horses that I click with to that extent. Only 2 horses in my life so far have I felt 100% fine with, and I owned neither. Waaahhh. They were both black geldings of around 15 hands. One called Piper, owned by a RS; and the other with the worst name I've ever heard in my life, Bartender. YUKKO. But what a horse. He belonged to a woman who kept her horse at the same estabishment that I did (at that time). Strangely enough I never asked her if she would sell him to me, I don't know why.

I hope there's a third black (or any other colour) gelding out there for me one day, of about 15 hands.

Well done you for finding your fellow.

 

[Dave's Mam]

Sounds like a great outcome.

 

[jkitten]

Thank you all, I must admit I am over the moon! ?

@Lois Lame How funny, my boy is a black 15hh-ish too! The other horse I really loved was a gray, but very similar otherwise, another sporty cob type who was forward-going but sane and polite about it. This boy is a little less sure of himself for the moment and needs a little more from me as a rider, but in a way that endears him more to me, like he actually needs my help, and hopefully learning how to give it as effectively as I can will also make me a better rider.

 

[Lois Lame]

Yes, that's what Bartender was like, needing a little bit of my help in the most endearing way.

Occasionally our instructor would get us to switch horses. This usually only happened when he was fed up with some of us. I was given Bartender. Swoon.

I remember there was a line of some kind across the arena surface. Maybe a hose, I don't know now. I'd not long mounted and was walking around a bit and Bartender came upon this line... oh Great Heavens. A line.

It was no biggie (I gallantly told him through my demeanor).

Just like this silly story - it's no biggie. But I'll always remember fondly our first little win.

 

[jkitten]

Aaaw what a lovely memory Lois, you're right it's the little things that stick with us! ?

 

[J&S]

I think you need to celebrate with a photo session!

 

[jkitten]

Hahaha I meant to take a picture yesterday but forgot, will try to remember tomorrow!

 

[jkitten]

Just remembered this thread and thought I would post those pictures and an update, in case other people are interested in pursuing something like this.

It's been two months now and so far I could not be happier with how it's going. I have one lesson and two share days a week. I usually spend one share day in the school doing flatwork, and the other out hacking. For the moment I am going out with the organised hack only (led either by the YO or one of the staff), but now that I have demonstrated that I can handle the odd 'moment' I am hoping to start going out with one of the other sharers and eventually also alone (once I know the routes).

My pony is absolutely lovely and an ideal fit for me personality and skill-wise. It's also a bit more interesting for me because he's not a seasoned RS pony yet and still hasn't fully been fully schooled out of the bad habits he had picked up in his previous situation, which makes him a bit more challenging, in good way. My instructor is happy to tell me in detail what is going on with him and what he needs to work on to correct it, which helps me learn and gives me something to practice in our solo sessions.

In general I think the arrangement works well because everyone at the yard has been happy to get to know me and judge my level of competence (or not!) based on what they can see, rather than reading rules off a checklist. At this point they trust me to get on with things and ask questions when I am unsure. Similarly I've noticed now that I am getting used to riding alone, my instructor is more inclined to ask me what I would like to work on or suggest working on specific things he thinks could be useful for me based on what he knows of my riding, rather than sticking to standardised lesson plans.

In sum, I think this is an arrangement that could work really well for someone of my novice level who isn't ready or financially able to take the step to ownership. At the same time, though, it really does heavily depend on there being a sensible and friendly yard team in place, and building a relationship with them.

 

[ihatework]

Lovely update, super cute horse, and you are right - the perfect stepping stone to horse ownership. More sensible people should take this approach!

 

[ycbm]

Lovely update, super cute horse, and you are right - the perfect stepping stone to horse ownership. More sensible people should take this approach!

Ditto all of this.
.

 

[Rumtytum]

He’s lovely! So pleased for you and ditto all ihatework has said.

 

[Xmas lucky]

In my opinion riding school rip people off when you share a horse . They overcharged for a service you don’t get . Long term is the problem they all start out good but as time gos on and the horse is needed more.

 

[jkitten]

In my opinion riding school rip people off when you share a horse . They overcharged for a service you don’t get . Long term is the problem they all start out good but as time gos on and the horse is needed more.

I'm sorry you've had bad experiences but I think it's unfair to tar everyone with the same brush. At my small place (less than 20 horses) there are people who have been sharing their respective horses for 3, 5 and one even 10 years. She was just talking to me the other day wondering what she'll do when her share horse retires soon. Of them I know at least one can afford to own and has owned in the past, but prefers this share arrangement to buying again. I see no reason to doubt their experiences.

 

[Snow Falcon]

What a lovely update, pleased it is working for you.

 

[Fjord]

What a great update, and a super horse! Sounds like it's working really well for you, its lovely to hear positive stories of how people can work together so that you all, and the horse, benefit.

 

[Pippity]

You can't beat a 15hh black cob with a blaze! Not that I'm biased or anything...