how would you assess if a rider is too heavy for their horse?

[tallyho!]

I've always used the "BELLY TEST"...

If you can get a hand between the belly and the floor. Carry on!

If not, put thicker shoes on

 

[Littlelegs]

I like the rule 'never ride anything with narrower hips than your own'. Not just for horses either!
Really I think any adult weighing 6 stone or more is a huge greedy fatty, & should stick to hw hunters. Chubby people of 5stone can get away with 15hh maxi cobs. And 14.2 & under should only be ridden by those under 4 stone.

 

[JFTDWS]

I like the rule 'never ride anything with narrower hips than your own'. Not just for horses either!

Right ho, I'd best be off to the nunnery then

 

[Ancient Hacker]

The OP has raised a valid issue, perhaps, because there is danger in relying on the scales. Actually there's danger in getting ON the scales sometimes but that's another matter.

I am not heavy (52 kgs). I am the right weight for my height - not necessarily with the conformation I want, but the body works so I appreciate that.
Despite years of experience I'm not what a consider a "light" rider. I have giving hands, never thump down on the saddle, barring an extreme emergency, and I am soft with the aids.
But I'm not a balanced rider.

When friends ask to so much as ride any of my horses around the arena, since they "haven't sat on a horse for twenty years" or whatever, I am very cautious indeed. I weigh them up on every level. If I think they'll be heavy in their riding, irrespective of weight, I make an excuse for the horse.

I think it's fair to say that weight alone is not the only criterion, but it's probably the only really objective one we can use.

 

[Mike007]

I would watch closely how the horse carries the weight. How it balances and accomodates a shift in weight. The horses attitude also . Does it seem to be enjoying the work . Signs of freshness. Attitude to being tacked up. Lots of little signals . In any consideration of weight carrying ,the horses fitness is crucial. A fit hard horse can carry twice the weight for an unfit one.

 

[Ancient Hacker]

I agree with Mike007 wholeheartedly.

The thorny issue, of course, is what to DO when you know a rider who fills the charming criteria discussed earlier in thread (fat rolls, disappearing horses etc!)
How does one tackle it, well, tactfully? Somehow "Yo! you lump of lard and fat rolls, you're too bl**dy fat for your mount!"

If we can address the problem of how to address the riders who are too heavy for their horses, on whatever criteria, a lot of problems will be solved.

 

[JFTDWS]

Somehow "Yo! you lump of lard and fat rolls, you're too bl**dy fat for your mount!"

"Yo! You so fat, your horse disappears up your arsecrack when you mount! Suck it up [or don't ] - lose some lard and buy a bigger mount, fatty!"

?

 

[Mike007]

Steer the rider towards fittening work for the horse such as long walking hacks ,which will have exactly the same effect on the rider.Without having to alienate and hurt rider.

 

[Ancient Hacker]

JFTD = tact personified

The truth is, our lump of lard on dainty pony types just don't get it, or they wouldn't be there in the first place.

The slight chubbies might take heed of Mike's approach, though, as might the bigger-boned or human-Clydesdale type of riders.

Many of us non dressage-ists don't often see ourselves in a mirror in the arena, and I think there may be many people who don't realise that their build and riding seat are a bit too much for the horse. We have to develop some sort of equestrian secret code that can be used to give the hint

 

[Littlelegs]

Lol. Maybe harry enfield could do an ad campaign 'OY, FATTY, NO!'. I think 'I'm ever so sorry to bring up such a sensitive issue, please don't take this personally, I would hate to hurt your feelings or dent your confidence. But do you mind me saying, unless you plan to hibernate or live in artic conditions, you are well fat, & need to get your flabby backside off pronto'. Will that do? Or maybe pre-programmed saddles that play 'who ate all the pies' once they bear a certain weight.

 

[JFTDWS]

JFTD = tact personified

Thanks, I do my best

Lol. Maybe harry enfield could do an ad campaign 'OY, FATTY, NO!'. I think 'I'm ever so sorry to bring up such a sensitive issue, please don't take this personally, I would hate to hurt your feelings or dent your confidence. But do you mind me saying, unless you plan to hibernate or live in artic conditions, you are well fat, & need to get your flabby backside off pronto'. Will that do? Or maybe pre-programmed saddles that play 'who ate all the pies' once they bear a certain weight.

OK I just snorted cider all over my laptop. Not amused, not amused at all!

That said I reckon I could make a weight-responsive saddlecloth on the strength of my half remembered school electronics lessons if anyone wants one

 

[Mike007]

I think that modern saddles leave a lot to be desired too. As a self confessed lardass I knew that when I had my saddle made I had to spread the weight as far as possible. (less than 1.5 psi)The trouble is that so many modern saddles do not do this even for you riders who think you are slim.You still overload your horses backs due to the design of your saddle.Actualy you probably put more load on your horses spine than me.Back in the day , we had saddles designed to make life bearable for a hunter ridden for 6 hours.But then the new ideas came in. lightness ,and forward seat for jumping. Unfortunately all at the expense of the horses back.

 

[Littlelegs]

Yes, a secret equestrian code is the way forward. How about 'looked in a mirror recently?' Or 'was planning permission approved before you moved your backside into the saddle?'. Or 'with a figure like that you need something that can gallop with you on board incase you meet men with harpoons out hacking'. I'm a born diplomat!

 

[Ancient Hacker]

Where's the "bladder explosion" emote on this forum? !

NEVER mention Harry Enfield.... I immediately have to hunt youtube to find his record-breaking lap on Top Gear years ago; I suspect he's still the slowest lap in history, it was so incredible!

 

[noodle_]

ii think others have the idea - horses weight/build etc....

i fit into the 20% rule... (Actually with my horse the 15%..) which is fine....but i am too big for her!!..... too tall in fact.

As lovely as she is i need to start facing facts either get something bigger or accept that i will look like a giant on her (i will accept the 2nd bit as i like her)!....

I ride light though, so we are ok together when its time to break her in properly

 

[Ancient Hacker]

I think that modern saddles leave a lot to be desired too. As a self confessed lardass I knew that when I had my saddle made I had to spread the weight as far as possible. (less than 1.5 psi)The trouble is that so many modern saddles do not do this even for you riders who think you are slim.You still overload your horses backs due to the design of your saddle.Actualy you probably put more load on your horses spine than me.Back in the day , we had saddles designed to make life bearable for a hunter ridden for 6 hours.But then the new ideas came in. lightness ,and forward seat for jumping. Unfortunately all at the expense of the horses back.

Mike007, this is interesting. What do you think the best solution is, in terms of saddle choice to spread the weight? I have always chosen saddles that "looked' most like the saddles of my long-lost youth; I am quite small, especially hips and bum, yet I always insist on a bigger saddle than I need, because I think it's better for my big horses (thoroughbreds, 16.3 and above). Am I doing this wrong? My saddles are always 17 and a half, way bigger than I need.

 

[Mike007]

I have had two wonderfull Irish horses ,Lancelot and Bob the nota cob. Being Irish they have a pronounced whither and a typical german style saddle will not fit. I had a saddle made for Lancelot (humungous 17.2 )) His back could easily take a 19 inch saddle so that is what Tom at TDS saddlery set out to design. We added extra wide pads at the back to spread load. None of the stuben cast Iron cow leather either. Padded to fit the back not make the back fit the saddle.The trouble is that with a conventional saddle , the larger it is ,the further forward the stirrup bars are ,and this causes problems. So I had wellep bars fitted allowing me to adjust the position. Shorter pannels (18 inch to help my legs clear the saddle). The amazing thing is that this saddle seems to fit all Irish horses. After the sad loss of lancelot, Tom gave his verdict that he didnt need to do anything for the saddle to fit Bob.(I just love honest saddlers)

 

[Ancient Hacker]

I have had two wonderfull Irish horses ,Lancelot and Bob the nota cob. Being Irish they have a pronounced whither and a typical german style saddle will not fit. I had a saddle made for Lancelot (humungous 17.2 )) His back could easily take a 19 inch saddle so that is what Tom at TDS saddlery set out to design. We added extra wide pads at the back to spread load. None of the stuben cast Iron cow leather either. Padded to fit the back not make the back fit the saddle.The trouble is that with a conventional saddle , the larger it is ,the further forward the stirrup bars are ,and this causes problems. So I had wellep bars fitted allowing me to adjust the position. Shorter pannels (18 inch to help my legs clear the saddle). The amazing thing is that this saddle seems to fit all Irish horses. After the sad loss of lancelot, Tom gave his verdict that he didnt need to do anything for the saddle to fit Bob.(I just love honest saddlers)

You're very fortunate to have good, professional saddlers who can make a saddle for you; I live somewhere in the middle of nowhere and it's a challenge to find a saddle fitter. I take a lot of care to make sure my saddles fit, and check them all the time - especially if one of the horses has been out of work for any reason and lost muscle. And I agree - Stubben saddle leather is indeed cast iron!

 

[Mike007]

You're very fortunate to have good, professional saddlers who can make a saddle for you; I live somewhere in the middle of nowhere and it's a challenge to find a saddle fitter. I take a lot of care to make sure my saddles fit, and check them all the time - especially if one of the horses has been out of work for any reason and lost muscle. And I agree - Stubben saddle leather is indeed cast iron!

In fairness my saddler is 60 miles away but I will if necessary pack BTNAC (Bob the nota cob)into the lorry and go visit.Oddly enough my local saddlers are always "too busy" yet for a simple drive in the country we get first class service.

 

[Ancient Hacker]

Bob the notacob is fortunate indeed - I'm probably 1000 miles from a proper saddlemaker, at best. We do have good saddlefitters, and fabulous farrier and vets so I can't complain too much.

 

[tallyho!]

Saddles schmaddles.... Really the test is... If you have to shop at "fuller fillies" then I suggest we call Harry Enfield...

Was that tactful enough or do I need lessons from JFTD?

 

[luckyoldme]

I carry a set of scales and a calculator round with me whenever I go near horses. If I see a lard arse I drag them off their horse weigh them and calculate wether or not they should be riding with a complicated formula. I then tell them if they should be riding or not and point out the possible harm they could be doing to their own horse. Sometimes I find people don t like this. I think its because I eat a few too many cakes myself.
Actually I just lied..what I really do is mind my own business.

 

[Ancient Hacker]

Saddles schmaddles.... Really the test is... If you have to shop at "fuller fillies" then I suggest we call Harry Enfield...

Was that tactful enough or do I need lessons from JFTD?

Oooh, very tactful indeed, Tallyho Of course that could all be translated as "Oy! Fatchick! Get off that 18 hand Clydesdale before you break his back!"
I tetchily note that I do not need to shop the "fuller filly" range, but do not take this as an indication that I am content with my body shape. Because I'm a woman.

 

[thehorsephotographer]

Not tactful at all and I sincerely hope none of you suffer with the same health issues I have had to deal with. Not everyone who is overweight eats pies all day long.

 

[Ancient Hacker]

Not tactful at all and I sincerely hope none of you suffer with the same health issues I have had to deal with. Not everyone who is overweight eats pies all day long.

Point taken (I had years of battling the scales before thyroid failure was diagnosed). But I am absolutely confident that you are one of the people who ensures s/he rides a horse who is compatible and comfortable; you're not putting yourself on a lightweight 13.2 youngster, as some do.

May I digress briefly, and rant about the plethora of videos on youtube showing TWO people on one horse, usually fecklessly cantering around on some hapless pony then jumping him together !

 

[thehorsephotographer]

Mike just read your posts about having a saddle made which I found very interesting. Where are TDS based please? Can an individually made saddle be adjusted if necessary for changes which may occur? One of our horses is currently in rehab following a hock problem. We will shortly be bringing her back into ridden work but she also had back problems and remembered pain issues from being fitted in her previous home with a saddle which was way too small for her which coupled with her being over weight and very unfit hasn't made for a healthy horse. Going forward saddle fit is going to be an issue since she's a constantly changing picture. I had thought of going the treeless route but my understanding of this is that they can put the riders weight in one place rather than a better distribution - but I'm not sure this is correct as I've only just started researching this. She's a 16.2 Cleveland bay cross cob. Medium weight bone.

 

[Littlelegs]

I would have thought its completely obvious we are being silly, & that nobody is actually planning on cracking jokes about pies etc. And besides being too heavy can apply to anyone fat or thin.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

There needs to be an assessment for people on how to keep your nose and gob out of other business.

How is it any on YOUR business to tell anyone they are too heavy for their horse? Honestly the mind boggles at how many people think they are the voice in the horseworld.

Its someone elses horse so just pay attention to your won and how you look on yours than on how someone else looks on theirs!!

I haven't read past the first page but already sick of this. Folk need to mind their own business.

 

[thehorsephotographer]

Yes it's clear you are joking but for someone who's seen her self esteem plummet to an all time low and really seriously hating her size at the moment it's a bitter pill to swallow to think that this is how I may be viewed by the horsey world at the mo. I think there is an assumption that all fat people are that way because quite simply they consume in food heaps (literally) more than they need and that fat people are happy to be that way otherwise of course they'd do something to change the status quo. Whilst that I'm sure is true for perhaps the majority of very obese people its certainly not always the case and for the smaller percentage genuinely unhappy and trying to do something to redress the balance the whole thing is depressing so the jokes do not seem as funny. That's all.

 

[thehorsephotographer]

Just to add my daughter, an adult who also has two horses of her own and slim has just returned from her morning shift at the riding school where she works and is sat here absolutely cracking her sides at some of the jokes