How would YOU deal with this dangerous jumping technique?

U

undertheweather

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 February 2012
Messages
1,171
Visit site
Please watch this: (and excuse the swearing from my mother)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_YsSJNIqT0

This mare does this sporadically, and although sometimes (like this time) I am able to sit up quick and it's fine, but other times she has put me in an ambulance.

I have tried placing poles in front of the jump, and although this works most of the time, sometimes she decides to just jump the lot.

I have just sold my P2 jacket thinking that I would not be riding her any more but unfortunately (sort of) I have to ride her this summer and her owner is keen for me to get her out show jumping. Dreading it.

Ideas appreciated :o
 
how old is she ? if she's young, perhaps you could get her popping a few jumps on her own without you riding her, so she can get used to jumping on her own ?
Keep us updated ;D
 
My friend's gelding used to take of absolutely miles out like this one. She fixed it with him by getting very bouncy, short SJ canter (the sort you'd need to jump 1m+) and jumping him out of that, along with tonnes of freeschooling down grids with a friend to follow so he started to realize where he should take off, and then lots of gridwork ridden, always approaching the first fence out of trot. Once it worked, the remedy was permanent and he's lovely now!
 
over fences that size my mare would do the same. What height do you compete at? How old is she? You need to do lots of grids starting in trot, with placing poles etc lots of canter poles, and learning to jump from a rhythm. Good luck!
 
ETA mine would have done the same as a baby, but has now learnt to come down to fences in a level and balanced way and to wait. When theyre unbalanced, bolder horses may dive at fences in the way your mare does.
 
By doing lots of grid work. Mine has done this a few times over tiny jumps like this one. The most jumping she does the easier she'll find it to sort out her feet
 
Not only is this scary, it is also very dangerous. It is not a jumping problem, it is a SPEED problem. You need to teach her to go slow, at your command in every pace before you attempt jumping.

This speed control technique is only effect if the mouth is soft, and responsive. Bit type will also have an influence.

Begin in walk, and as soon as she walks faster than you want,sit still. If she does not respond, close your knees, brace your lower back and slowly increase rein pressure. Bring her to a halt, then ask her to walk on again. If you are a confident rider,and can perform half halts, these are useful too.
Once she is in complete control in walk, do the same in trot, slowing to walk when shE gets fast. Sit up, sit still, close knees, brace lower back (without tensing ,only do this if you are experienced and have independant control of your body) and gradually increase rein pressure until she walks.
Once you are in one hundred percent control,you can do the same in canter. Once you have completed this in canter, and have full control, set up a small jump and do it in trot. If she gets to fast, make her walk the jump. THis will teach her not to anticipate the jump. Once you are confident, and in control, do so in canter, and slow to trot, or even walk if necessary. If she runs off with !you, sit up, heels down, sit still, don't panic, breathe, close your knees, lower your hands, apply pressure, then release, then repeat. When she slows down, release the pressure to tell her that what she has done is right, and take up the pressure again to ask for her to slow down.
Do not constantly haul on the reins, as this hardens her mouth, and is sometimes called white noise because it causes horses to ignore the stimulus. This is seen in riding school ponies who have had riders doing goodness only knows what, and they learn to ignore it. So, hauling the reins only leads to more problems.
,.
The idea below should only be used in emergencies, because it could create its own problems, such as refusing or running out. If she takes off, and you can't stop her with any of the earlier techniques, put one hand down low by her neck, hold your hand out and pull her into a circle. As I said, this technique is not so ideal, as it could generate its own problems if used to frequently. On the other hand, she is much less likely to unseat you because she is not crossing the jump, so this can avoid injury.

I hope this was helpful. If you are not able to do this yourself, it is worth enlisting a professional, because it could prevent future injury to you, or those around you."

Problems with speeding can also be caused by the rider, the horse goes a bit too fast, the rider tenses and clamps the leg on, the horse feels the fear and goes faster, the rider clamps tighter, both horse and rider are locked in a vicious circle that can lead to injury of either horse or rider, Or even both.

A change of bit can also be advised, but if the rider has heavy or"set" hands, it will cause more damage than ever. The most important thing is to gain the horses respect, and control!

I hope this helps!
 
She is launching herself at the jump, taking off a stride too soon. You therefore need to work on her rhythm and balance. You haven't said how old and experienced she is, which would make a difference.

I would start with trot poles: this will get her into a level trot, make sure her approach is calm and straight. You can put four/five trot poles on the ground, it will help with her balance and focus. You could change it about, maybe poles across the diagonal so you work on a figure of eight and she cannot anticipate.

Once you are happy with this you could start canter poles. Again four/ five on the ground, to establish her balance, stride and rhythm. I'm not sure how big she is but roughly 1.2m-1.3m apart. You could raise one end of each pole to about 6" off the ground to give her something more to think about. Once she is established over the canter poles, add a cross pole. The jump in your video is very small, I'd be inclined to raise it to about 2'6" so she has something to look at and think about. By having several canter poles before the jump, she will be on a level stride, and will have no opportunity to launch herself. You could build this into a one stride double, so there are poles going in to make sure you are at the correct take off point, have a pole on the ground in the middle of the double, so she can only take one stride.

I would gradually progress to actually jumping after several sessions of poles, don't do all this in one go.

I also think you need to work on your position to help the canter. Make sure you are sitting up tall and straight, and shorten your reins. Don't worry about the poles, just focus upon the canter. Make sure that it is balanced and above all you are straight. The poles will sort out your stride. Another thing you can work on on the flat is lengthening and shortening her stride. Getting back on her hocks and in a bouncy, adjustable canter.

Gradually take the canter poles away one by one, until you are approaching the jump with no ground pole. Try this, and see how you go.
 
Thanks for your replies.
She is 9 this year, but she was only backed at the beginning of last year.

This video was taken a month or so after she had done the same to me over a larger fence (about 85/90cm spread) and I ended up on the arena kickboards. I also had placing poles in the same session, and trotting poles, but approaching in trot meant she jumped the lot that day. I have previously jumped her from walk in a "walk chase me charlie", do

Atm I think she should be trained more for dressage, but it is good to hear that other horses have been like this. I have not loose jumped her and don't really have a suitable arrangement for doing so, but will see what I can manage.

KatB - she is very bold, and never so much as looks at a jump, but poles on the floor she isn't a fan of!!

So grids grids grids!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_LpO5wmIN8 is a video showing her a 2/3 months before the first video, very green and also her first time jumping at a new yard. Am well aware of my riding faults in this!
 
this is a speed problem and i have ridden a horse like this at a riding school and jumped it like this up to 4ft. it was a horse non one else would ride and no one would EVER jump as he was worse than that and you used to have to do a few jumps thwen gallop round the arena as he got soooo wound up then continue jumping. We did lots of schooling half halts and circles just beofre the jump then jump so he lreanrs it is not a big deal and learns to wait for you to ask. just before he died i did a season of jumping with him up to 4ft at compettions and all in lovely control but everyone still shocked when i said i was taking duke to the shows and jumping. also sit very quietly and give with the hands, the last thing you need to do is sock them in the mouth.
 
woodtiger said:
She is launching herself at the jump, taking off a stride too soon. You therefore need to work on her rhythm and balance. You haven't said how old and experienced she is, which would make a difference.
Click to expand...

Hiya, She's 16.2hh and 9 this year, a late starter though and was backed at beginning of last year, definitely no earlier than november 2010. I actually think the problem is not the taking off the stride too soon, as when I ride into a fence I am flexible for the horse to stand off or put another one in. If you watch the video carefully you will see she is taking off on a half stride.


woodtiger said:
I also think you need to work on your position to help the canter. Make sure you are sitting up tall and straight, and shorten your reins. Don't worry about the poles, just focus upon the canter. Make sure that it is balanced and above all you are straight. The poles will sort out your stride. Another thing you can work on on the flat is lengthening and shortening her stride. Getting back on her hocks and in a bouncy, adjustable canter.
Click to expand...

I know I had/have a problem with my reins in canter, I do it on the flat too. I have really been working on this, as I know I won't get a true connection as they were. As it stands I haven't ridden this mare regularly since last summer. Thanks :)
 
Last edited:
lots of good advice already. agreed, it's about control and speed, not really about the jump at all - although that ends up being the problem, obviously.
get her used to waiting and listening. loads of work on control and rhythm on the flat, then to a pole, then to a row of poles, then to a fence.
she's absolutely not allowed to launch at the fence. ever. if she accelerates, either stop dead or circle away. control control control. tbh i would not be afraid to sock her in the chops once if absolutely necessary in order to get control rather than have that (in vid) happen.
an intrepid instructor walking across in front of the fence as you approach can help - they need good judgement though!
i'd use safety cups (the type that drop if the pole is hit) just in case. NO fixed fences yet obviously.
 
If she was mine I would be doing lots of work over poles on the flat until she understands how to work over them correctly (not jumping them all at once!) in a short bouncey canter. Then I would have two placing poles, a small cross and then another placing pole on landing side. I think I would possibly stick something scary on the jump too such as a coat/jumper to try and back her off a bit and encourage her to make a shape rather than nose dive.

Well sat btw!
 
PonyGalaxy said:
Not only is this scary, it is also very dangerous. It is not a jumping problem, it is a SPEED problem. You need to teach her to go slow, at your command in every pace before you attempt jumping.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply, it's great to have other people's views on this. I have ridden dozens of young horses over their first fences, and have never experienced anything like this mare apart from being on a complete miss on an experienced horse. It's like a "5th leg preservation" thing but it shouldn't be at all. At least if this is remedies I know she won't want to touch many poles!!

PonyGalaxy said:
This speed control technique is only effect if the mouth is soft, and responsive. Bit type will also have an influence.

Begin in walk, and as soon as she walks faster than you want,sit still. If she does not respond, close your knees, brace your lower back and slowly increase rein pressure. Bring her to a halt, then ask her to walk on again. If you are a confident rider,and can perform half halts, these are useful too.
Once she is in complete control in walk, do the same in trot, slowing to walk when shE gets fast. Sit up, sit still, close knees, brace lower back (without tensing ,only do this if you are experienced and have independant control of your body) and gradually increase rein pressure until she walks.
Once you are in one hundred percent control,you can do the same in canter. Once you have completed this in canter, and have full control, set up a small jump and do it in trot. If she gets to fast, make her walk the jump. THis will teach her not to anticipate the jump. Once you are confident, and in control, do so in canter, and slow to trot, or even walk if necessary. If she runs off with !you, sit up, heels down, sit still, don't panic, breathe, close your knees, lower your hands, apply pressure, then release, then repeat. When she slows down, release the pressure to tell her that what she has done is right, and take up the pressure again to ask for her to slow down.
Do not constantly haul on the reins, as this hardens her mouth, and is sometimes called white noise because it causes horses to ignore the stimulus. This is seen in riding school ponies who have had riders doing goodness only knows what, and they learn to ignore it. So, hauling the reins only leads to more problems.
Click to expand...

This is almost exactly what I have been taught since October time (after I had ceased to ride this mare last year), pretty much word for word. Except in the way I have been taught you start from halt and move forwards to walk when you have a relaxed jaw. This is actually my major plan with this mare, as she moves off the leg but I think you can see in the videos what comes from my leg does not go 100% into the hand.

You have just reiterated my own plan with this mare back to me, which is wicked. How would you know when you have to control to start the jumping again?

PonyGalaxy said:
The idea below should only be used in emergencies, because it could create its own problems, such as refusing or running out. If she takes off, and you can't stop her with any of the earlier techniques, put one hand down low by her neck, hold your hand out and pull her into a circle. As I said, this technique is not so ideal, as it could generate its own problems if used to frequently. On the other hand, she is much less likely to unseat you because she is not crossing the jump, so this can avoid injury.

I hope this was helpful. If you are not able to do this yourself, it is worth enlisting a professional, because it could prevent future injury to you, or those around you."

Problems with speeding can also be caused by the rider, the horse goes a bit too fast, the rider tenses and clamps the leg on, the horse feels the fear and goes faster, the rider clamps tighter, both horse and rider are locked in a vicious circle that can lead to injury of either horse or rider, Or even both.

A change of bit can also be advised, but if the rider has heavy or"set" hands, it will cause more damage than ever. The most important thing is to gain the horses respect, and control!

I hope this helps!
Click to expand...

This horse is a speed head, and where she has been backed they advised me to not use my legs at all. Obviously I disagreed with this entirely, and she now is used to leg aids, but probably still a bit sensitive.
 
kerilli said:
l
an intrepid instructor walking across in front of the fence as you approach can help - they need good judgement though!
Click to expand...

Heh heh, an instructor had to resort to that with my old boy, who despite having had the T-shirt could still behave disgracefully when faced with a line of trotting poles.

OP, what's she like coming into a fence from trot rather than canter?
 
Fidgety said:
Heh heh, an instructor had to resort to that with my old boy, who despite having had the T-shirt could still behave disgracefully when faced with a line of trotting poles.

OP, what's she like coming into a fence from trot rather than canter?
Click to expand...

She is very well behaved, in a nice rhythm, but as I said above, not all of the leg is going into hand, as it could be said.

I think plan of action is work on flat until she rides 100% from leg to hand, so very "safe" and all the energy put in is "mine" or so to speak. Ride every time over single poles in school until she cannot give a toss and will walk over/ignore them. Then onwards and upwards.
 
undertheweather said:
Hiya, She's 16.2hh and 9 this year
Click to expand...
Sorry, I couldn't tell she was that big. In that case she'd definitely need more room between the canter poles - around 1.4m.

undertheweather said:
I actually think the problem is not the taking off the stride too soon, as when I ride into a fence I am flexible for the horse to stand off or put another one in. If you watch the video carefully you will see she is taking off on a half stride.
Click to expand...
I agree, the problem isn't the point of take off, but the control of the approach. Lots of flat and grid work will help with this. Getting her to adjust her stride when you say so, it looks to me as if she hasn't much idea about shortening and lengthening, which is why she takes off when and where she feels like it.
 
Thanks very much guys.
Fingers crossed we will have a good summer.

PS am looking at getting tracks/safety cups for wooden wings, as at the yard there are 15 pairs of wooden wings, and the cups are nowhere to be found!
 
To be honest, I was expecting something much worse than what i just saw. That just looks like a horse who isn't educated enough yet and from what you said, with her only having been backed last yera I would say that was pretty much the case. To be honest I would work on balancing her properly on the flat and forget the jumping for a bit. It looks like she's unbalanced so is just sort of throwing herself at the fence and hoping for the best.

She needs to ge balanced properly - at 9yo and only just backed she will have got herself into a way of going and you are trying to now chance a lot in a short space of time. I would try free schooling her over poles and fences first and see what she does then. If you are intent on continuing jumping her then you need to sit back and HOLD, you are giving too far away from the fence. She needs you to hold her in a more short, bouncey canter and you need to be sure of where the stride is.

Get yourself a good flatwork instructor and a good showjumping instructor (I would suggest someone who actually showjumps as a profession and not someone who events)
 
I can only echo what's been said above - she isn't educated enough to know where to take off. I can also sympathise as my 14yo also makes a habit of doing such a jump. Wouldn't call it dangerous per se, but it certainly teaches you to sit up over a fence! :p Mine has taken a whole 2 canter strides off a fence before (and cleared it!) - it was a 3 stride double that we did as a bounce! ... (She's a smidge under 15hh!!!)
 
I would spend a lot of time doing trot poles, canter poles and jumping from trot, it looks like she just doesn't know where to take off, so I would encourage a lot of jumping from trot to get her confidence and work on your canter on the flat, leading up to canter poles. She just looks very green and by continuing to jump from canter, she will learn to jump incorrectly out of habit.
I had a mare that just could not jump from canter as she got her legs all in a twist, so we spent a long time doing jumps in trot. I even took her to some clear round classes but did them all in trot. She got the hang of things eventually as will yours.

Best of luck!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top