How would you deal with this?

Paint Me Proud

Paint Me Proud

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How would you deal with the horse below?

Extremely downhill, makes his head disappear in canter.....

rolkur.jpg
 
hands up and forwards and lots of transitions?

I'm guessing its a baby baby?

(and for the positive you/ your friend sits very nicely and has a lovely lower leg position)
 
He is burying himself on his forehand and needs to work more from behind - note how small the step he is taking behind.

Transitions wil be your friend. Get an instructor o help you to ride him from behind into the contact. Leg, leg and more leg with upward half halts. Don't canter for long periods but come back to trot after about half a circle and then ask for canter again.
 
Let go of his head. You need to allow him to stretch his neck, and not be using your reins. He is probably use to being ridden like this, so you need to teach him how he should be going.

Once he can canter without you holding onto his head, you can teach him where to put his head. Hes not in this position voluntarily, there is no slack in the rein. Also, make sure he not in a severe bit, as he could be trying to evade it by going in this position.
 
he isnt mine, belongs to a friend. Friend doesnt canter him much because she feels unsafe when he sticks his head between his legs!

The lady riding is our instructor and i watched her school him today and was interesting to hear what others would try, to compare it to what i watched today.

He does it every time he canters.
 
Let go of its head, for starters. I mean it, when it motors down and over, just let go - it needs to carry its own head.
In general schooling, ride it forward, forward and more forward, canter only on straight lines, introduce reinback to walk, and reinback to trot - basically, everything and anything that will make it engage its behind.

For the easily offended, I do apologise for calling the horse ''it'' :D
 
Take the gag off and put him in a snaffle.

Do lots of schooling on a very loose rein, walk and trot 1st, so he learns not to be "held" and relax (without caring where his head is) then progress to canter.
 
Is he quite forward going when walking and in general? If so, I would work on getting him to slow down his walk so he can learn to balance himself. Looks like it could be balance issues and hence the horse is throwing himself on to the forehand as this is the only way he can cope.
 
Paint Me Proud said:
He is, he does it himself regardless of what you do with the rein - it is very strange to watch
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Even on the lunge? Teach him to walk, trot and canter on a loose rein, and let him carry himself. He might hve been taught to go like this by strong or hard hands, so teach him to balance himself, then when he can, ask him to relax into a contact. But dont take a firm contact, only enough to get him to soften, and if he drops to much, release and ride him forward.
 
I would try him in a snaffle with a straight bar mouthpiece. It worked for one of my boys as he found a jointed bit had too much movement which made him overbend because he felt insecure.
 
Have they free-schooled him and seen how he goes then? I feel he has learnt to go that way to help himself as he is not balanced enough.
 
If it was mine I would want to get it working long and low and using back muscles& back end properly.. Has someone been too handy with draw reins?
 
When I first got my tb he was just like this & the PO had him in a straight rubber pelham.. you would put his bridle on & you could have his reins loose & he would still tuck his head right in just like yours! What bit do you have him in? The other issue with my horse at the time was he had osteoarthritus (ringbone) in one of his hind legs so he was trying to keep all his weight on his front legs & literally steam forward rather than put weight & work his hind. An op later, a snaffle bit & a good trainer..he's now going like a dream! (Not saying that your horse has a problem with his back legs of course just what happened to me.) I did also go through a stage of when hacking not asking him to work in an outline & he soon figured that he didn't have to bring his head in..then little by little he first began to work long & low & now we are in a lovely outline..just a lot of hard work in the beginning!
 
Jennyharvey said:
Let go of his head. You need to allow him to stretch his neck, and not be using your reins. He is probably use to being ridden like this, so you need to teach him how he should be going.

Once he can canter without you holding onto his head, you can teach him where to put his head. Hes not in this position voluntarily, there is no slack in the rein. Also, make sure he not in a severe bit, as he could be trying to evade it by going in this position.
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This is soo true..
 
There are some horses though who are built quite downhill. My previous ISH would canter like that into a fence and I did end up jumping him in a fulmer happy mouth gag. However for schooling, it was transistions, transitions and transitions, all to help him sit and push off behind. Once he was quick off the mark, then it was trot/canter/trot/canter - all short, all to make him use his back end. For jumping anything remotely serious my RI put him into the bit I have described to help me. Back/saddle fitted. Schooling sessions and dressage tests were ridden in a loose ring KK snaffle.
 
What I would do is:

Get the gag out of his mouth and use a straight bit, a lozenge bit or even a plastic or rubber bit. Do transitions on circles - he could not canter circles with his head there, so put him on a circle. If he feels like he'll fall over, he'll put his head out to balance. Canter only as many strides as he will stay balanced - 2, 3, 4 then back to trot or walk. If he won't come back to trot or walk, make the circle smaller until he does.

From what I can see, if the horse genuinely does this all the time, cantering on straight lines could mean cantering straight out through the fence at the end of the arena. I've bin there and done that and I wouldn't choose to do it again so it's circles for me :)
 
i believe the horse has something wrong with his pelvis. I know he always carries his tail to one side when ridden. He has been fully vet checked etc and is sound to ride.

He has never had a draw rein near him in his life.

After reading this I would kind of like to ride him myself to see how he feels and try a few of the things you've suggested.

As i work in a school I have the whole summer hols off after tomorrow so may offer to help the owner with him while i'm free in the day :D
 
My first impression from only seeing a picture is that the horse has a physical issue he is trying to evade, he has no topline, a dipped back, and a "heavy" croup area. I would find a vet that also does physio and accupuncture if poss as to me his muscles look all out of kilter. I would also not ride him, i would put him on the lunge or long reins for the time being, as well as the handler being able to asses how the horse is moving it will encourage the horse to balance himself and hopefully give you a clearer idea of where his problems lay. :)
 
I still think he needs to be started from walk and assess how he does that. I have had my horse 16 years and had a lesson with a lady who is very very good is assessing a horse's isuses. My horse is forward going but has always been on the forehand and i thought "well, he's built this way"and that's why he does it. However, in one lesson she advised me to encourage him to walk slower so as to keep his weight on his hind more.

It actually does help him. He does walk forward and now I try and get him to slow down and he does a much better walk. This lady has also had my sister help her horse (who is v lazy with his hind) to stand properly and step off from behind. It again has helped him. I think sometimes yoi need to break it down and start from the beginning, establish things at walk and trot before trying canter. It may be this particular horse has never been taught to canter with a person on board as such so has developed his own technique to cope.
 
Paint Me Proud said:
that photo was taken on a circle - he held his head like that the whole way round, on both reins!!
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I posted before you said you thought his pelvis was wrong, and I would not do this on a horse with a wonky pelvis. But if his pelvis is OK, and he does this on a circle, then the circle is too big and he is being allowed to drag himself round it on his forehand, instead of having his shoulders brought across in front of his rider. If necessary to move those shoulders, which he could not do unless he gets his head out, I'd put him on a square and do very, very obvious corners, moving the shoulders across. It's difficult to describe in words, but he would not find it possible to do what I can "feel" in my head with his head in that position, he would have to put it out, or fall over, and he would not allow himself to fall over.

I think it could be a lot of fun to teach him how to carry himself better during your summer hols. I hope the owner takes you up on it. Then come back with photos of how you have improved him, won't you?
 
cptrayes said:
I think it could be a lot of fun to teach him how to carry himself better during your summer hols. I hope the owner takes you up on it. Then come back with photos of how you have improved him, won't you?
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that's be a good idea - i will try my best and give you all an update after the 6 week hols.
 
id be intrested to know if in walk on a loose rein , in a straight line with no rider interence ..

how he carried his neck, from the wither up to poll.

i wouldnt say he is unhappy but that he has learnt to compensate for a physical issue, more looking at his neck muscle, and hind leg action, id put money on it that one hind lifts more than the other.
 
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