how would you feel? Sorry long.

Bosworth

Bosworth

Well-Known Member
Joined
10 February 2006
Messages
5,268
Location
devon
www.ballhillequestrian.co.uk
OK - bit of background - I am a YO, I have about 10 livery horses on the yard. A couple are part livery and the rest are DIY. I book the farrier for everyone as he comes to the yard every 3 weeks and they fit in when it suits them. I don't expect any of the liveries to be there to hold their horse - unless it is a total pratt but they are welcome to do so if they want. Most don't bother - just leave me to it. So the farrier tells me any problems and I let the owner know what he said. So that has been the case for years - since we started the yard.

One of my liveries and her husband own 2 horses, one has a seriously deformed leg and hoof. Farrier has been trying to work with it for two years and husband comes up regularly when farrier is there, but despite farrier requesting xrays several times husband seems to think it is just hoof growth and turning him away for 3 months barefoot and giving a supplement is going to make a difference. Farrier has told him lots of times that this is not the solution. I have been there when farrier has been trying hard to get husband to listen but no success. Last week husband was supposed to come up when farrier was there, I left a message with my farrier as I had to be somewhere else that day so couldn;t be there but I was concerned about the horse as he had really struggled to get up that morning and his foot looked bad, and owners husband was coming up to help with horse. I then got a phone call from farrier telling me owners Husband had not come up and horses foot was getting worse and he needed xrays as he is convinced the pedal bone is now almost non existant, his pastern is fixed and the foot is ballerina with huge lengths of heel growth, the heel cannot be cut back as it bleeds prolifically as it is not just hoof growth. He asked me to speak to owner as he was getting nowhere.

I told owner what he had said and again suggested the xray. i was told vet was due out soon so I have changed farrier dates so he arrives on same day so both can speak and if vet brings an xray then an informed decision can be made as to teh horses future. I also insisted it has to be done soon as horse is living out with no shoes on but come winter he will need to come in at night over stones and he cannot walk on stones, he is in agony.

Today owners wife complained that farrier had spoken to me and I had then spoken to her. She said farrier should have rung her directly not spoken to me. And that he should not talk to husband. My answer was that as far as I was concerned the farrier had been trying to talk to the husband for months, he was getting no where and had asked me to talk to her. If she had any questions she should then ring the farrier. It is not the farriers job to ring round everyone if they don't turn up to see him.

Normally I get on really well with this livery, her reaction seems to me to be ridiculous. I appreciate it is not what she wants to here - she is living in denial about the likely prognosis and her husband still seems convinced that a supplement and being barefoot will sort out a serious deformity - the horse is 13 for gods sake and looking depressed and the farrier needs xrays. I feel as though I am being painted as the bad guy because I told her what the farrier said, and she is complaining that the farrier should have rung her but as far as I am concerned - they knew the farrier was coming and their horse was being looked at - the OH was supposed to be coming and didn't. So farier talked to me.

chocolate hobnobs and a glass of lovely cold Rose if you made it this far.
 
Oh dear. Bosworth, you seem like a fab YO to me, and at the end of the day if they will not listen, or dont turn up or whatever - that is their problem.
They should be thankful that you are letting them know what the farrier is saying, it does seem as if they dont want to face the problem though, not really sure what you can do about that
crazy.gif
 
You sound a wonderful yard owner who is being taken advantage of. You are clearly upset by the total lack of care by the horses owners and it is upsetting you. You are the authority on your own yard so insist a vet is called to this poorly horse or you ask the livery to leave and give notice. I am sure you could fill their places fairly quickly and it would eleviate the worry you are experiencing. The horse is not yours so unless you get tough and insist medical attention is sought, things will not improve. So far, polite requests have got you nowhere but you are burdened with worry and stress.

In my experience, when a horse is ill cared for, it is not necessarily the owner who gets a bad reputation but the yard on which it is kept - 'oh, have you seen the horse on so and so's yard, its in a terrible state ...' and your reputation may be tarnished.

You do not need an ignorant owner in your life or on your yard, there are plenty of people who will make running your yard much easier.

I do hope you and horsey will get matters sorted quickly.

xxx
 
To be honest Bosworth I would put it in writing to them that they and you have a duty of care and if they do not seek vetinary advise then you will and the bill will be sent to them or move their horse.
 
I think you have done all a yard owner would be expected to do and It works like that on our yard too. you ob have the horses welfare at heart too. however the fact that the husband is not telling the wife anything or everything is not your fault. What we have in our contract too is that if we do not take or are not avialable to take the corect decision for a horse ie we aare away and it needs emergency surgery etc when the YO will take the necessary action and bill us later.
 
You sound like the YO from heaven, but boy have you made a rod for your own back.

Unless a horse is full livery, I would have absolutely nothing to do with farrier or vet visits, unless you're asked to assist as a one off - and then charge them for it.

This is their horse and their responsibility. However, they seem to be unwilling to take on the concerns of the professional trimming it, or the YO in whose care it's left. And now the wife is throwing her toys out of her pram. Does she have some sort of problem in picking up the phone to speak to the farrier herself?

Give them an ultimatum. Vet appointment within the next week, or they go. This sounds like a welfare issue, and unless they are willing to address it it is you who could be in the firing line......

And I would stop having anything to do with organising farriers visits for anyone. That's our responsibilities as horse owners.
 
I need the livery owner to be there for my farrier , He only comes on Wednesdays and I work shifts so can't always make it. I've seen a few owners about recently behaving strangely. there is usually an ulterior motive. Could be money worries, in which case explaining that not getting the vet in is a seriously false economy could help. You'll always have odd clients, people can be odd and get grumpy.
 
You are a fantastic YO Bos. I am really sorry the horse owner has reacted this way and I think she is OTT if she was that interested or bothered than she should make time to be there with farrier.

(((hug)))
 
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To be honest Bosworth I would put it in writing to them that they and you have a duty of care and if they do not seek vetinary advise then you will and the bill will be sent to them or move their horse.

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i agree with this, it sounds like a welfare issue now... and you have a duty of care, as a YO and a human being... can you say this to her in a way that doesn't sound nasty? if so, do that... if not, you may have to bite the bullet and do it anyway... good luck! x
 
I organise the farrier visits as I won't have loads of different ones on the yard as it is my home. Also the ability service and contactability of the other farriers is of serious concern. I know this farrier is fantastic and I am almost obsessive about good shoeing and he does all my horses when he comes so booking him in makes sense. He is happy doing them himself without the owners there so it's not normally a problem. And I won;t have him slated as he is a fantastic farrier, totally reliable and unbelievably punctual. He also is great at conversing with clients and explaining exactly what he is doing and when. But apparantly he fails because he didn't call her and I fail because I passed his message on when he rang me to update me on the days shoeings.
 
Give it to them in writing that if they dont get their arses in gear they are off the yard, as others said it the will tarnish your name, blimey, I cant see any other yards doing what you do etc to be so helpful.
 
At the risk of getting shot down, I can definatly see where the livery is coming from. It is a bit interfering, they are aware of the issue and said the vet was coming out, plus that they had the farrier trying to deal with it. It's not like they are ignoring it.

And also I get confused when YO's say they will only let liveries use one farrier - if you are going to open up your yard to 10 owners, surely it's up to them to choose who cares for their own horses? Yes it's your home but it's like renting out a flat and then telling them which doctor to use (kinda!)

Don't mean any offence, just saying I can see where they are coming from
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No the vet was coming out for something else - annual injections, no intention of mentioning the problem with the foot or getting an xray done. They didn't bother to turn up for the farrier despite saying they would. They leave me to do their horse and pass the message on and have actually done nothing about the problem despite the farrier asking for xrays for 2 years. A I said they have simply turned the horses out barefoot and ignored the farriers recommendations and requests for xrays. I mentioned the fact he was looking in pain and the wife stated she had thought he was a bit quiet but had done nothing about it and obviously did not have enough concern to turn up for the farrier.

People like these are why as a yard owner you have to ensure the farrier is a good one as they have no knowledge and experience to make a judgement for themselves. Before they came here their old farrier put 3 different types of shoes on their other horse - all different styles and sizes causing the horse to have one seriously wide flat foot, two at the back that were like a camels and one normal front foot. This horse had shoes on that were far far far too small and tight, absolutely no width or support which has compounded the problem. All liveries who come to the yard are told about the yard farrier and non of them have a problem with him as he is so good and as they don't want to be there they are happy to use him and pleased with his shoeing. I am not prepared to hang around for odd farriers who turn up when ever they want, nor will I turn out for other farriers, I haven;t got the time to be at their beck and call. If they insist on their own then I insist they are there to meet the farrier and to clear up after him. So their choice if they can be bothered to do that. i won;t have farrier or vet wandering around the place without either myself or one of the liveries being there. There are also vets I won;t have on the place as they are not horse vets, and no unqualified dentists, or uninsured trainers, I am BHS approved and the horses welfare is my priority
 
Well, Bosworth, regardless of the pro's and con's of how you run your yard - clearly there is a duty of care to this horse that is not being met by the owner.

So if I were you, they'd be shaping up, or shipping out.

Good luck with them.
 
What a nightmare for you.
The joys of being a YO, those liveries who just cant see whats infront of them.
If it were a livery on my yard, i think my plan of action would be to put it in writing, not overly formal but just a friendly note to the wife, saying that you are now getting very concerned that this is still going on, not improving but infact getting worse, maybe make an excuse for the letter rather than just verbal like the fact that you wanted her to know and the hubby could pass it on or something, make a copy of the letter.
IF they dont get the vet, i'd go a step further and go into your duty of care etc and how you believe, with the support of the farrier (include his qualifications maybe to remind her that he knows what he is on about) that the horse is suffering and urge her to get a vet out, or you will have to and she will foot the bill. I assume you have some clause in the contract that you can call the vet if needed and she is liable for the cost??

I guess a lot also depends on what type of livery she is. If they are DIYs, i guess maybe they wont like your input as much as if it was maybe a part/full who didnt see the horse that often? Having said that, they must be able to see whats going on?

i really sympathise with you Bosworth. I trust that you are going to get this horse the help it needs though
smile.gif
hopefully the owner will realise that you are only looking out for her horse!
 
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