How would you handle this?

[scruffyponies]

If a car approaches from behind, intent on a dangerous overtake such as described by OP, it is safest to be riding well out into the lane, and even to move OUT slightly, blocking their path (or threatening to do so) so that they are forced to slow and reconsider.

You can then move back to the gutter when you're past the bend and it's safe for them to pass - giving them a cheery wave and a 'thank you'.

 

[DabDab]

Sounds like they were both at fault. The police car doesn't have to be specifically aware that there may be horses about...it could have been a horse on their side of the road, a bike, some walkers...could they have stopped if any of those things had been just over the hill? If not then yes I would report them.

The overtaking car was clearly an idiot. Blind overtakes are one of the most common problems I find on the road, so I'm always uber cautious about giving them the opportunity - if I'm a decent distance from the bend/crest then I stop to let them pass (parking myself off the tarmac if possible), or if too close for them to pass me safely I move out into the lane and trot on round the blind bit to discourage them from passing me.

 

[Rowreach]

With respect Rowreach it all happened in a split second and I was concentrating on keeping my boy calm and not potentially spooking into the road when I knew there was a car behind. Yes I should have called out, but hindsight is a wonderful thing and as I've stated previously I do not usually leave gaps inbetween other riders, but sometimes things happen. I'm only human and make mistakes.

I'm going to email my local police station today, and have also logged the incident with the BHS

Yes, I wasn't singling you out though, it was a combination of factors that could have had a tragic result, but the good thing about hindsight is that you can use it to your advantage

One of the reasons for not leaving gaps between riders is that it encourages drivers to overtake because they think they can nip in the gap if necessary.

I ride on the roads every day, I know how things happen and how quickly. But a raised awareness between you and the people you ride with, a bit of a publicity campaign locally to make drivers (including the police) more aware, and maybe a few roadsigns would surely be something good coming out of something bad?

 

[Equine_Dream]

Sounds like they were both at fault. The police car doesn't have to be specifically aware that there may be horses about...it could have been a horse on their side of the road, a bike, some walkers...could they have stopped if any of those things had been just over the hill? If not then yes I would report them.

The overtaking car was clearly an idiot. Blind overtakes are one of the most common problems I find on the road, so I'm always uber cautious about giving them the opportunity - if I'm a decent distance from the bend/crest then I stop to let them pass (parking myself off the tarmac if possible), or if too close for them to pass me safely I move out into the lane and trot on round the blind bit to discourage them from passing me.

This has also crossed my mind. What if we had been coming back on the other side of the road? Would the officer have stopped in time......

 

[Equine_Dream]

If a car approaches from behind, intent on a dangerous overtake such as described by OP, it is safest to be riding well out into the lane, and even to move OUT slightly, blocking their path (or threatening to do so) so that they are forced to slow and reconsider.

You can then move back to the gutter when you're past the bend and it's safe for them to pass - giving them a cheery wave and a 'thank you'.

Excellent advice and you're right, I think I need to adopt a more aggressive riding strategy. Its hard sometimes as its trusting the idiot behind won't still try and squeeze past anyway (no joke I've seen this happen).

 

[Equine_Dream]

Yes, I wasn't singling you out though, it was a combination of factors that could have had a tragic result, but the good thing about hindsight is that you can use it to your advantage

One of the reasons for not leaving gaps between riders is that it encourages drivers to overtake because they think they can nip in the gap if necessary.

I ride on the roads every day, I know how things happen and how quickly. But a raised awareness between you and the people you ride with, a bit of a publicity campaign locally to make drivers (including the police) more aware, and maybe a few roadsigns would surely be something good coming out of something bad?

I know you are only trying to help and clearly know a great deal on the matter. I apologise if my reply came off a bit grouchy, the incident has shaken me up if I'm honest, and its not the only time we've had close calls on that road, or had abuse screamed at us when we've asked drivers to slow down.
Thank you for your advice. There are several livery yards and private yards in the area. Its very popular with horse riders. I do think an awareness day sounds like an excellent idea. Do you have any tips on how we could go about arranging one? I've heard of the pass wide and slow campaign. I don't know if anyone is organising a ride in the area or if we could organise one ?

 

[mariew]

Interesting there is advise to move out towards the middle of the road coming up to a bend. I would be too worried that someone would be coming barrelling towards you and not seeing you because of the bend, too many drivers cut corners.

 

[Equine_Dream]

Interesting there is advise to move out towards the middle of the road coming up to a bend. I would be too worried that someone would be coming barrelling towards you and not seeing you because of the bend, too many drivers cut corners.

Good point also. Its so hard, you feel like you're damed if you do and damed if you don't ?‍

 

[Tiddlypom]

This has also crossed my mind. What if we had been coming back on the other side of the road? Would the officer have stopped in time......

This was my near miss two years ago with a driving school car coming from behind too fast on a bend. I have never felt happy hacking on the road since. We were hi vizzed as per my avatar, and accompanied by my ninja cyclist (an advanced driver).

I logged the near miss with both the police and the BHS.

https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/...t-by-a-car-whilst-hacking-on-the-road.777830/

 

[scruffyponies]

Interesting there is advise to move out towards the middle of the road coming up to a bend. I would be too worried that someone would be coming barrelling towards you and not seeing you because of the bend, too many drivers cut corners.

On a right hand bend, that could well be a problem, not so much on a left hand one, when being out in the middle improves your sightlines. All you can do is keep your ears open, and to judge each situation as you find it.

Even the idiots react to road positioning (much more than requests or hand signals). I experimented with simply flexing the horses head towards oncoming traffic, and can confirm that someone doing 60+ reacted a quarter of a mile away.

 

[Rowreach]

I know you are only trying to help and clearly know a great deal on the matter. I apologise if my reply came off a bit grouchy, the incident has shaken me up if I'm honest, and its not the only time we've had close calls on that road, or had abuse screamed at us when we've asked drivers to slow down.
Thank you for your advice. There are several livery yards and private yards in the area. Its very popular with horse riders. I do think an awareness day sounds like an excellent idea. Do you have any tips on how we could go about arranging one? I've heard of the pass wide and slow campaign. I don't know if anyone is organising a ride in the area or if we could organise one ?

See if any of your local instructors are Ridesafe qualified and get them to come along and talk to a group of riders (or you could arrange something like this over zoom almost straight away).

It never bothered me if riders did the actual assessment, I'm more than happy to share the training, it's always been about making us more aware when we're riding on the roads so that everything we do, as vulnerable road users, can be set against what other less vulnerable ones do, and hopefully keep us all safer. Defensive riding is an excellent tool to use to avert incidents.

Let me know if I can help in any way.

 

[Rowreach]

Interesting there is advise to move out towards the middle of the road coming up to a bend. I would be too worried that someone would be coming barrelling towards you and not seeing you because of the bend, too many drivers cut corners.

But it all depends on the actual geography at the time. There's no hard and fast rule about defensive riding, it depends upon for example your line of sight from the back of a horse or over a hedge/round a corner, that sort of thing.

 

[Leandy]

I completely agree with the comments above about moving out into the road and riding defensively to encourage drivers to slow down including on bends as it improves the sight line. It allows you to make your own space to manouvre even if the driver fails to slow down and still tries to get through the gap, you have created more space to the left to be able to move into. I never squash myself into the hedge/onto the verge unless and until a vehicle has clearly seen me and slowed down to my satisfaction, at that point I will move over and let them past with a cheery wave if it is safe to do so. If you squash yourself into the hedge/verge before that point, you leave it open to the vehicle to fly past giving you not enough room and you will have nowhere to go because you are already squashed to the left. This is very dangerous. I firmly believe that the middle of the road (on a narrow road) or middle of the left hand lane on a wider road, is the safest place to position yourself. It gives you more control of the situation and also makes you much more visible.

 

[Gloi]

My best advice on roads like this is to use your ears and plan ahead. Something coming fast in the distance? Try to adjust your riding to meet it where they can see you from as far away as you can or be near a bit of verge. Own the road until they slow enough. Pass the worst bits when you can hear there is nothing about. It has saved me from being wiped out by the delivery vans many times. Fortunately not a lot of silent electric cars round here. I also won't ride on a lot of roads when it is too windy to hear.

 

[Equine_Dream]

See if any of your local instructors are Ridesafe qualified and get them to come along and talk to a group of riders (or you could arrange something like this over zoom almost straight away).

It never bothered me if riders did the actual assessment, I'm more than happy to share the training, it's always been about making us more aware when we're riding on the roads so that everything we do, as vulnerable road users, can be set against what other less vulnerable ones do, and hopefully keep us all safer. Defensive riding is an excellent tool to use to avert incidents.

Let me know if I can help in any way.

Thank you. Will do

 

[SEL]

This has also crossed my mind. What if we had been coming back on the other side of the road? Would the officer have stopped in time......

I was out on a friend's horse and we could hear the fast car coming down the road (also narrow like you describe). I've never pressed into the hedge so far and prayed before - he came round the bend and slammed the brakes on so hard he skidded across the other side of the road. Then gave us a rude hand signal and drove on. Fortunately both horses were absolute saints which given one of them had only been under saddle 6 months was really lucky!

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

A friend and I went for a hack on Sunday. To get to the bridle path we need to go on a fairly busy road. It's not exactly a country lane, but is narrower than a normal road, two cars can pass each other but need to slow right down to do so if that makes sense? Like many country roads, its a 60mph speed limit. It also has a few dodgy bends. Despite the fact that there are several yards in the area, and the road is regularly used by horse riders there are no warning signs for drivers.
Anyway we were coming up a hill that also has a slight bend at the top. There was a car behind us who went to overtake but just as they went to pass a police car coming the opposite way came flying around the bend at the top. He did attempt to slow but only slightly. The car that was overtaking had to tuck back into the gap between myself and my friend in front (only by luck that there was a gap inbetween us). The police car just carried on past. He didn't have his lights or sirens on at the time.
Obviously this could have turned into a rather nasty situation. I'm a bit unsure how to proceed. When we got back and told others what happened, they suggested we should contact the local police and make a complaint. I do agree this situation could have been very serious, but to be fair, the car overtaking probably should have waited until they could clearly see nothing was coming in the opposite direction. Also perhaps the officer wasn't from the area and was unaware that the road is commonly used by horse riders. He was travelling within the speed limit I think?
Am I being too reasonable? I was thinking of contacting them not to complain but to let them know what happened and ask if they can make sure officers are aware that there may be riders in the area along that road?
I've also contacted our local council several times about getting some bloody signs put up!!!

Scarey.

Now one thing it is always best to keep close to each other so no gaps, unless a large group then two blocks of 6.

Second approach highways and apply for some signs, out local riding association did, and not only got speed reduced from National speed down too 40mph as several yards here, they also managed too get some horse warning signs. You might find this useful https://www.buckscc.gov.uk/services...oad-signs-policy/apply-to-put-up-a-road-sign/

 

[Equine_Dream]

Tiddlypom and SEL....no words. Both those situations sound totally horrendous. So glad to hear you and your horses were ok.

 

[Equine_Dream]

Scarey.

Now one thing it is always best to keep close to each other so no gaps, unless a large group then two blocks of 6.

Second approach highways and apply for some signs, out local riding association did, and not only got speed reduced from National speed down too 40mph as several yards here, they also managed too get some horse warning signs. You might find this useful https://www.buckscc.gov.uk/services...oad-signs-policy/apply-to-put-up-a-road-sign/

Thank you!

 

[PeterNatt]

Please report to the www.horseaccidents.org.uk web site so that this incident can bel logged and the area marked accordingly.
Please contact your Count Councils Highway Department and ask them for Horse Warning Signs and for the speed limit to be reduced.
As there are a number of livery yards in the area would it be possible to provide an off road multi-user route adjacent to the road?
You could ask for support from the other local horse riders.
Where both of you and your horses wearing Hi-Viz?
If you require any assistance then please contact the British Horse Society Safety Department for further assistance.

 

[Equine_Dream]

Update
I submitted a complaint to the local police yesterday and had a phonecall back within a few hours. The woman I spoke to was very sympathetic and listened to my concerns. She was a runner and her husband was a keen cyclist so she sympathised with how frightening situations like these can be.
She asked what outcome I would like and I said I would just like it if the officer could be spoken to and informed that the road is very commonly used by horse riders.
So she is going to find out what car was in the area at that time and let the officer know the issue, and come back to me once they have spoken with him/her.
I really am so pleased how seriously they have taken my concern!

 

[Rowreach]

Update
I submitted a complaint to the local police yesterday and had a phonecall back within a few hours. The woman I spoke to was very sympathetic and listened to my concerns. She was a runner and her husband was a keen cyclist so she sympathised with how frightening situations like these can be.
She asked what outcome I would like and I said I would just like it if the officer could be spoken to and informed that the road is very commonly used by horse riders.
So she is going to find out what car was in the area at that time and let the officer know the issue, and come back to me once they have spoken with him/her.
I really am so pleased how seriously they have taken my concern!

Thats really positive ?

The only thing is that they (well, all of us) should be prepared for anything to be on the road, anywhere. Hopefully it won’t just be the one officer that gets the message ?

 

[holeymoley]

Initial thought is that the main fault is with the car which chose to overtake on a blind bend. Utter madness. But again thinking about it, tables turned, the police car must’ve been coming in to a blind bend too? I would need to ask OH about that.

I’d also say though that as riders you should be as close together as possible, there shouldn’t be a space big enough between you and the other rider to fit a car in, that’s a bit careless.

 

[scruffyponies]

I’d also say though that as riders you should be as close together as possible, there shouldn’t be a space big enough between you and the other rider to fit a car in, that’s a bit careless.

That's easy to say if you're not riding the lazy one

 

[Equine_Dream]

That's easy to say if you're not riding the lazy one

Or a Welsh that has heart failure at a crisp packet caught on a branch ?? (but doesn't bat an eyelid at tractors, lorries, noisy trailers etc ?‍)

Like I say it wasn't intentional. My boy stopped to look at a some (horse eating) rubbish caught in a hedge. I knew there was a car behind me and I was concentrating on encouraging my boy forward and not shying into the road, as even though I gestured to the driver to wait, in my experience many will completely ignore you.
My boy took steps forward and before I could ask him to trot on to catch up the car behind moved around to overtake, just as the police car came around the corner. Like I say it all happened in a millisecond. I'm fully aware that you should not leave gaps when riding single file, and it's not something I make a habit of.
It really did shake me up and I've already been beating myself up enough over it believe me! I realise people are only trying to help but I really do feel bad enough about the whole thing.