Huge plea for advice& assistance!

Wigglypigs

Wigglypigs

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Arghhhhhhhhhhhh!

I've finally reached breaking point with my dogs :(
I'll hold my hands up and say its completely my own fault and that I need to put in a huge amount of work to fix it - but where to start?

I had 2 dogs, my OH had 1 so once we moved in together we now have a family of 3.
The problem?
His bitch(Byrne) hates one of my girls(Piglet). Constantly grumbling and warning her off....curled lips, baring of teeth etc. Strangely my girl doesn't seem to be warned off by this but equally doesn't retaliate and continues to pester Byrne. It never escalates into a fight unless one of us intervene by reprimanding either dog or trying to seperate them. The growling/snarling gets worse but Piglet just seems fixated even more by this and is welded to grumpy Byrne nudging her shoulder etc.
We have been together for over 2 years and both moved into a new house together (plus 2 subsequent moves) so I don't think it's an issue with territory?
Byrne has no issue at all with my other girl or with any other dogs that we have to visit or meet at the park.
We are now at the end of our tethers. I have tried separating them ( makes the situation ten times worse when they meet again), shouting at them ( no difference), I've tried the 'watch me' command to distract them when they start up (ignored completely once they are 'in the zone' growling) and the grumpy one has been scruffed to allow Piglet to sniff her (this seems to be the point of her constantly being 'at' Byrne) which just made Byrne angry and attack as soon as she was released.
If my OH lavishes attention on Byrne and lifts her Piglet becomes fixated and will jump up nudging Byrne until she's put down where there growling/annoying starts again in earnest! :(
I fully expect someone to point out the obvious things that I'm doing wrong and give me a stern talking too! :o
Please please help otherwise I may go mad! The obvious solution would be to get rid of one of them BUT each of them was our first dog so neither are prepared to do this. If it was number 3 dog we would possibly explore this option but typically nothings simple as she keeps out of it all completely!

Vodka and cranberry to anyone daft enough to offer advice!
Gratuitous pic if the 3 of them
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(L-R Piglet, Pumpkin, Byrne)
 
It will be a hard thing for anyone to diagnose over the interwebs...I would look into getting a trainer or behaviourist in to observe the behaviour and the dynamic in the house...you could be doing everything right and you could be doing everything wrong, in the nicest possible way.

I would utilise someone used to terriers....avoid a 'one size fits all' training system involving some sort of expensive gadget....avoid someone who blames everything on one or both dogs and absolves you of all blame (again, in the nicest possible way!!)...avoid someone who diagnoses one or all of the dogs with some sort of terrible issue which will require lots of repeat business...you get the picture!!

Are they all neutered or entire or what?
 
My two are mother and daughter and are both spayed. Grumpy Byrne has not yet been spayed ( but will be come hell or high water if I have my way!)

I completely agree that we would benefit from a behaviourist/trainer. I have looked but failed to find anyone local (we are fairly rural) plus my OH is completely against the idea of someone 'telling him what to do with his dog' I agree that this is a ridiculous attitude to have however try as I might I am struggling to get him to see my point of view. I will try and film them so you can see what I mean. I think that I'm fairly hands I and knowledgable with the dogs etc and spent a lot of time training my girl before I met my OH. They are all JRT'S so typically have a mind if their own lol
 
Where abouts are you?
I have to say it won't help much if your OH cannot take instruction but you really could benefit a helpful pair of eyes to see exactly what is happening here and furher instruction, it's clearly souns like one is goading for reaction an the oher will indeed snap at one time or another like a ticking time bomb, bitchs are no doubt hard work and terriers doubly so but it can be dealt with to an extent if you really want to work with it, maybe not cured but certainly controlled. I actually quite enjoy visiting homes for these purposes (see seperation anxiety is not my fave behavioural subject as you may have been led to belive):p;):D lmao.
They have to learn to regard you because it wont come from one another, they have to learn there is a consiquence for the action and it has to be done in a particular manor or indeed it will instigate more fighting (esp the scruffing thing) you also have to change the way you structure and manage them as a pack, and NOT in regard to feed first/stroke first and all that rubbish:p, more learn their triggers and learn how best to deal with excitement and teaching calmness in how you react and in your daily routines in regard to dealing with the dogs and ineracting with them when one displays such behaviour and their general manners and know how to avoid a trigger which humans generally do without knowing it as they are generally the reason the dogs display this behaviour;) either by their lax leadership (I don't mean that in bad way) as most owners are unaware of it until it's explained;)
I regard to woking with it, you also have to be reading from the same hym sheet (in the household)
You definately need someone in and you OH defintely has to listen;)
I would also go by he rule of together when you are in but safely seperated by a (crate) but still kept together, becaue as you suggest above unbeknown to some seperating perminantly will make the problem worse when they eventually get together.
 
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Thanks do much for the replys. We are about 15 mins outside Stirling. If anyone could recommend a trainer I'll look into it.
Cayla do you want to come visit? ;)
The girls are always together and have never been separated with a crate etc. They have never ever fought to my knowledge. It never gets worse than Byrne grumbling and Pigket annoying her. They will sleep near each other on occasion without issue. If we are out they are all together in the hall and kitchen area without obvious issue.
My OH is a strange one. I will work on him - would having Byrne spayed help do you think?
 
Yes I would spay but only to prevent a pyo/mammary cancer:p, if she is not the pesterer then spaying won't solve the issues unless when she is more hormonal/in season/has a phantom then the **** may hit the fan. To be fair dogs rarely fight when the humans are not there;) the crating when unsupervised just gives piece of mind incase a fight does break out.
I would ineed love to come if you never lived 3 million miles away:p
I would say if she does this more when you or OH are around she is displaying a bit a jelousy/competittion. So from this it's you 2 who need tips on how to handle it and by way of some experience not any old franchise;).
 
Current strategy is to remove dogs to their beds when they are being particularly bad (OH has just arrived home and the growling/nudging was a full intensity! The more Byrne growls the more obsessed Piglet becomes with her :(
Sore head now.
Poor pumpkin is an angel.....sat on my knee looking at me as if 'shut those other 2 up Mum'

I'm trying to film them so you can see/hear what they are like - I might need to tidy the house first lol
 
Do you walk them all together as one pack? This will create a better bond between them. If you are already walking them together, then increase the amount of walking per day in order to burn off any excess energy.

Deal with the 'trouble maker' first - immediately with the first sign of bad behaviour - as that one is the unbalanced one who started it. They've got to know that their behaviour is unwanted by you.

'Time out' due to unwanted behaviour may work with children, but it doesn't work for dogs. Dogs wouldn't sit on a naughty step and think about what they just done wrong and regret their actions.
 
They are all walked together. Both problem dogs will be off lead. Piglet spends her time running and sniffing and while walking she ignores Byrne. Byrne generally spends her time running up and down towards Piglet growling at her then running away. If Piglet runs she will chase her having a go :(
I tend to keep Byrne closer to heel so that she doesn't get a chance to pester Piglet.

Removing them both from the room does actually stop the growling/nudging when it's at it's worst.
 
"Time out" is indeed very effective for dogs and unlike humans it's not "time out" for the dog to think about it's actions;):D it's to exclude the dog from what is strongly desires "your attention/presence" and that is how "time out" is very effective in alot of behaviours, esp in regards to your dogs OP, as the behaviour seems to be heightened when you and your OH are around I would say she is indeed to an extent lobbying for attention, so effectively youare saying "well you ain't getting any":p
 
Removing a dog from something that's winding it up is actually quite useful - obviously they aren't thinking about what they've done, but it is an instant and effective consequence for unwanted behaviour.
 
Thank you all for your replies :D
I might arm myself with a squeezy bottle although suspect that being terrorists they might think that a water fight is great fun ;)

I'm going to attempt to really blitz their bad behaviour over the next few weeks and try and be 100% consistent. I admit to ignoring the odd grumble and not correcting it every time. The 'growler' is extremely food motivated so I may attempt distraction then asking for a desired behaviour (train a down/quiet command?) then reward? Piglet already has a repertoire of thinks she can be distracted with in the hope of a click/treat.
Am I being unrealistic in expecting an improvement after a couple of weeks? Unsure how long to give something before I know if it's effective?
 
There are no hard or fast rules or time limits, it really does depend on the dog and how ingrained the behaviour is.
As you say, one slide is enough to set back a lot of hard work, you need to be consistent. You need to be fully 'on' them and in control in a lot of situations - dogs have a tendency to gamble.


Spudlet, the phrase 'back in the van' is being used a lot these days, speaking of which :o
 
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