Humane destruction by shooting

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AMH

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Now, before we start, I don't have any axes to grind against the hunt - I'm merely curious as to people's experiences and anecdotes.

A friend of a friend decided, after much expensive vet treatment and a hopeless prognosis for future work, to have her very large horse destroyed and decided to have the hunt do it.

Long story short, the whole thing went wrong and the horse ended up loose in the field with a head wound, before he could be caught and another (successful) attempt made.

It was, as you may imagine, incredibly traumatic (the friend of the friend was present so this is a first hand account). The hunt kennelman was mortified and said it had never happened to him in 15 years.

My question is, has anyone else seen or heard of anything similar, ie with destruction by humane killer? I have horses myself and have always opted for lethal injection, mainly because I'm a bit squeamish about having the animal shot. This experience has made me decide I'd always choose lethal injection in future, but that might not always be possible, depending on circumstances.

Sorry to bring up such a morbid subject, but it's definitely got me thinking...
 
Thats awful! She must have been in pieces, I know I would have been. I myself have always opted for the injection. Maybe thats more for me, but either way I just feel its kinder. Either way things can go wrong. I've heard some horrific stories about the injection aswell but have never had any problems with mine. I just can't stand the thought of my precious horse being shot. I did have to have 1 shot, I couldn't be there though, my Dad was there for me, I just couldn't do it. I was told by the vet he had to do it that way as my little boy had had a stroke which had sent him blind & all his internal organs were slowly shutting down. Not really sure why, but he said because he had had a stroke the injection would not work or take to long. My dad assures me it was very quick though. Either way its a horrible thing to go through so people will choose whichever way they feel thay can cope with better, there is no right or wrong way.
 
That sounds dreadful, poor horse/owner. BUT....If you search on here you'll no doubt find all kinds of horror stories about pts. However I would have to say I chose shooting for mine and wouldn't change in future. There will always be the very few who sadly have a bad experience but that goes for shooting, injection, abattoir or whatever. I would like to reassure anyone who is having to make this horrible decision that in my experience, the gun was instant and there was nothing other than the tiniest entry point to deal with.
 
Nudibranch said:
That sounds dreadful, poor horse/owner. BUT....If you search on here you'll no doubt find all kinds of horror stories about pts. However I would have to say I chose shooting for mine and wouldn't change in future. There will always be the very few who sadly have a bad experience but that goes for shooting, injection, abattoir or whatever. I would like to reassure anyone who is having to make this horrible decision that in my experience, the gun was instant and there was nothing other than the tiniest entry point to deal with.
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Thank you for that - I would like to point out that I'm not trying to panic anyone!
 
We have had several shot by the hunt and one done with a humane killer by a salughterman in an emergency without incident.
We did have one who must have had the bullet hit an artery sp? as he bled out of his mouth an enormous amount but he was dead before he hit the floor.

It is very unfortunate this happened to your friend and must have been distressing but our experiences have alaways been good with the hunt, well as good as they can in that situation and they are alaways very professsional while we are blubbering around the place.
 
Yes, a friend of mine had to help hold down a pony with a broken leg after the first shot went wrong. He was helping the huntsman.

I would always use injection. If anything goes wrong I would rather inject again than have to shoot again.
 
It must have been very, very distressing for all involved - and I include the huntsman.

I have never heard a story like it, and have myself always had horses destroyed by the hunt, incident free.
 
There are lots of different tales of things going wrong with injection or shooting.

My friend was at Badminton years and years ago, before they routinely used screens, and a horse had to be shot and she said the vet made a hash of it - she was a farmer so she knew all about having animals destroyed. Normally a slaughterman/huntsman is just as good as a vet as although they haven't the education they have the experience.
We have had to have casualty animals destroyed occasionally (cattle) and have used vet or slaughterman and it has been instantaneous. I remember one occasion though, when the huntsman came to shoot an animal and thought it was going to be lying down quietly, but he couldn't get near it even though it was pretty ill, and in the end we had to help get it into a cattle crush to keep it still.

I can only imagine the absolute horror of the incident with your friends horse, it doesn't bear thinking about. Horses are very good a picking up body language and vibes, so maybe a vet uses a sedative as routine, whereas a huntsman wouldn't.
 
As Nudibranch has said, there are many horror stories about both methods. I think, at the end of the day, it comes down to personal choice. I have heard fewer stories of the gun going wrong when compared to the injection, and if I had to make a choice, any horse of mine would always be put down by the hunt. That said, I do accept that shooting may not always go to plan; when we took one of our old ponies to the kennels, we heard two shots in very quick succession (I was told they always load two bullets.)

I was discussing this with my farrier last week. He has come across so many traumatised owners whose horses have reacted badly to the injection; it reminded me of an experience my dad (also a farrier) told me about once. He was shoeing at a yard where a horse had just been PTS in its stable by injection; they had covered it over with a tarpaulin, and the vet had left the yard. Half an hour after she'd gone, the horse began to groan and kick - clearly very much still alive - and Dad had to sit on it to hold it down while the vet was called back. I have vowed never to put my horse in the position where that could happen; at least with a gun, problems can be rectified pretty quickly.

Incidentally, I also have had experience of the injection 'going wrong' (having the desired effect, ultimately, but not being quick nor humane) for three different dogs, all of different ages, all with different reasons for needing to be PTS, which has really made me question this method in general :(
 
I've experienced both without anything going wrong. Shooting was quicker, dead before they hit the ground. Injection slower, horse swaying about a bit before lying down and rolling over.

For the owner, injection seems nicer, just lying down and going to sleep. From the horses point of view I suspect shooting is better as it is so instantaneous, rather than feeling muzzy and probably slightly confused as to what is happening to it.

At the end of the day it is just an awful decision to make.
 
Over 40 years of owning horses, I've always had them shot,it's fast and they never know. What happened to your friends horse is a rare happening. Again I've heard some horrid stories about the injection. Must admit my vet perfers the gun. I think you do what you have to do, gun or needle it's up to the owner. But must admit I was surprised to hear that it ran round the field, was it a) not held properly b)not put in a yard or barn.
 
Echo Bravo said:
Over 40 years of owning horses, I've always had them shot,it's fast and they never know. What happened to your friends horse is a rare happening. Again I've heard some horrid stories about the injection. Must admit my vet perfers the gun. I think you do what you have to do, gun or needle it's up to the owner. But must admit I was surprised to hear that it ran round the field, was it a) not held properly b)not put in a yard or barn.
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TBH I didn't have the courage to ask, since it was all so horrid. But that point did cross my mind immediately. I'm not sure why the decision was made to do it in the field rather than on the yard, but I would guess they went with their knowledge of the horse (he lived out) and on the hunt staff's advice. There is a decent field shelter they could have used... I really don't know.
 
I've always used the hunt, and can't thank them enough for the care, and kindness they use when in this situation. The horse really does know nothing, it is so quick. I've never experienced or heard of it going wrong, and will continue to use them in future.
I was scared off the injection method when I had to plan my old pony's last day. I was told, they can fight against it, and its better for all with the gun. I was so glad, I would have hated to see a horse struggling to stay on his feet, while us humans are distessed too.
 
I don't know where all these stories about the injection come from. I think it is an old fashioned view and that perhaps in the past there were problems. But the procedure is so refined now that there are no problems. Certainly the three that I have witnessed have been very straight forward. The horse is sedated first and this can make a horse sway. Maybe this is what people are mistakenly referring to when they say the horse fights to stay on its feet. The lethal injection is then given and the horse drops immediately to the ground and is unconscious before it reaches the floor. There is no jerking of the limbs like with the gun, though there can be some heavy expirations of air but the horse is fully unconscious as its body painlessly shuts down.
 
We've had a few done by the bullet at our yard (not all my horses btw) I'm talking liveries etc and not heard of any problems.

I think however you have to take into account the situation, what the horse is like, to decide which is the best method, if that is you have the choice, I can see why with some horses the injection would be a better option, but my first choice would be by bullet for a straight forward job.
 
A friend had her horse shot, I wasn't there when it happened but apparently the first attempt went wrong a blew half her poor horse's face off. I would always opt for the injection since knowing what happened to that horse. I want to be there at the end for my horses but couldn't face it if it went wrong like that.
 
AMH said:
I'm not sure why the decision was made to do it in the field rather than on the yard, but I would guess they went with their knowledge of the horse (he lived out) and on the hunt staff's advice. There is a decent field shelter they could have used... I really don't know.
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Again, always had mine done in the field - near the gate for easy access of the lorry, and never had a problem.
 
Ive seen and heard far more horror stories from the injection than being shot, although when i was teenager there was one that got shot that went wrong, it had very bad twisted gut nothing they could do for it vet shot didnt get it propery so had to be repeated but it was down from the colic so rectified very quickly.

Only but the other day the YO told me the 32year laminitic that had to be PTS (mixute of old age lami and athritis) had an injection and she said it fought like hell against it, ive also seen first hand horses struggling with injection trying to get up wobbling ect. So i think theres far more incidents via injection.

Mad me very nervous when 2 weeks ago i had to take my elderly dog to PTS about the injection as ive never had to have a dog done before but that was very quick and very peacefull.

My heart does go out t your friend though must have been horrific and very bad luck that it happened to them.
 
I don't know where all these stories about the injection come from. I think it is an old fashioned view and that perhaps in the past there were problems. But the procedure is so refined now that there are no problems.
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I don't think you can say that Wagtail. Sure, the processes have improved - but there are still cases when the injection (for whatever reason) simply isn't the peaceful end that we would all hope for.
 
I had mine PTS by the vet last week.
We had waited for knacker but due to a breakdown in communication (everybody's adrenalin levels very high) she arrived to find the horse on her feet, without the gun. Vet had stayed in case we needed to sedate while waiting, so she injected. The poor mare was on her last legs with septicaemia, the vet decided not to sedate but the mare still tried to resist the effects of the injection, trying to rear as she fell. Although every-one present expected and recognised the reflex/involuntary movements, there were plenty, which did not help any-one.
We have had others shot previously, both by hunt and knacker with no problems whatsoever. The effect is instant - horse is dead before it hits the ground.
We had a pony injected many years ago and said then that we'd never do it again, also because she resisted the effects of the injection.

ETA I agree with the 'friend of a friend' comments. I do think that knacker/hunt are better at shooting as they are more experienced than vets.
 
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I was slightly put off the injection after a small exmoor at our yard needed to be put to sleep, it was staggering around the stable and hitting its head on the water bowl on the walls and it was all a little messy poor thing. At least with a shot its over with, I think if a horse is very ill or laid on the floor injection is fine because theres no sort of falling and stumbling whilst its still alive.
 
amymay said:
I don't think you can say that Wagtail. Sure, the processes have improved - but there are still cases when the injection (for whatever reason) simply isn't the peaceful end that we would all hope for.
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I think it should always be done with sedation first, just like it is when horses are put under for operations.
 
BEUnderTheInfluence said:
I was slightly put off the injection after a small exmoor at our yard needed to be put to sleep, it was staggering around the stable and hitting its head on the water bowl on the walls and it was all a little messy poor thing. At least with a shot its over with, I think if a horse is very ill or laid on the floor injection is fine because theres no sort of falling and stumbling whilst its still alive.
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This sounds like too much sedation or too little lethal injection. If the vet is well practiced and does it correctly, there is not a problem.

I think what it all boils down to, with both methods, is expertise of the practitioner.
 
Wagtail said:
If the vet is well practiced and does it correctly, there is not a problem.
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Again, sorry to quible - but I simply don't think you can say that. Physiologically some horses fight against the affects of the drugs, and it does not go as planned - even with the most experienced vets.
 
amymay said:
Again, sorry to quible - but I simply don't think you can say that. Physiologically some horses fight against the affects of the drugs, and it does not go as planned - even with the most experienced vets.
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Undoubtably, some horses need larger doses than others. We have a horse on our yard that needs twice the dose of sedative than others of his weight. But the same things happen to horses being put under for operations and people don't view it as a major problem. If it goes wrong another injection is given. I would much rather the injection go wrong than the gun.

If everything goes to plan, then both methods are equally humane, but if something goes wrong I know which method would be the least distressing to witness.
 
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