Hunt going through farms/livery yards with horses

[Alec Swan]

……..

I do feel its common courtesy for the hunt to notify farmers and landowners in the area they are going to cross, so they can make arrangements for their stock. ……..

Fiona

In an ideal world, you'd be right, but with the huge expansion in our equine ownership world, and with horses being dotted about and just about everywhere, I wonder if it really is practical to expect very horse owner in an area where hounds are likely to be taken to be advised that hounds 'may' be with them? I truly believe that most packs do their best to work in with horse owners who may have horses turned out, but to expect them to source every single owner, simply isn't possible or being realistic.

I feel that mostly, most secretaries do their best, and that's all that we can ask.

Alec.

 

[Christmas Crumpet]

I have hunted all my life and consider myself very much a hunting person. However, I too have had issues with a local pack (who I don't hunt with) riding through my fields/pony paddocks which has driven me potty at the time. We live in a very wet part of the country and I have 2 fields of 1 acre each which I maintain very well in order that I can turn my horse out every day. There have been a few occasions where roughly 80+ horses have gone through my paddock at least once if not twice not to mention when they jumped the hedge and charged from one end to the other. I made my feelings very clear on the matter and asked that only hunt staff were allowed through. It was met with a rather frosty reception but I did point out I have 2 acres not 200. The other annoying thing is that they don't actually even have to go through my field - all they need to do is trot 200 yards down the road.

I believe there is still very much, within certain packs, a sense of entitlement and the feeling that 'we have always done that so therefore should always be able to'. I am happy to say that the pack I hunt with would not dream of behaving as such and pony paddocks are def. out of bounds!!

I always keep my horse in when they are hunting round us simply because I would rather know he was safe in his box than charging about churning up the field. The yard next-door also keeps theirs in.

 

[ester]

Sorry but going on land they have been specifically told they cannot only days before is ridiculously poor form. Both of the hunts I have been out with have always been very careful about this. They obviously have very little consideration for others having been clearly having been asked not to several times given that they have had to apologise in the past and frankly it is just rude and unnecessary. OP are you the land owner?

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

So OP, I take it that you haven't just gone to the MFH but also the police regarding the trespass as this isn't the 1st time?
I do hope so

I happily hunt, but am very lucky to go with a very well behaved rabble (thank goodness!)

 

[pixie]

The police have been told about it several times, from other land owners in the area too. I currently have two officers keeping their horses on my livery yard.
In previous years they have sent local landowners an event diary at the beginning of the season, so we would all know when they would be in the area. This way we could make sure horses were in paddocks away from the roads (like ours are) or stabled. We've had nothing from them this year, we only knew that they would be around from hearing it on grapevine... In this day of modern technology, how much time does it take to send out a group email to local landowners and farmers?
There are no riding schools or trekking centres in the area, just a few livery yards. Our horses are used to small groups of horses going past (as well as lots of cyclists and noisy farm machinery) and have never been bothered by any of it. It was the combination of the hounds, 4x4s and large groups of horses everywhere that caused them to go crazy.
There is no right of way for horses or vehicles on our property.

FYI, despite them having being contacted yesterday, we are still waiting on any response or apology from them...

 

[ester]

So that hadn't even contacted you before hand :eek3: I presumed they had rang to inform you and then you had said no, no access :eek3:

 

[be positive]

In an ideal world, you'd be right, but with the huge expansion in our equine ownership world, and with horses being dotted about and just about everywhere, I wonder if it really is practical to expect very horse owner in an area where hounds are likely to be taken to be advised that hounds 'may' be with them? I truly believe that most packs do their best to work in with horse owners who may have horses turned out, but to expect them to source every single owner, simply isn't possible or being realistic.

I feel that mostly, most secretaries do their best, and that's all that we can ask.

Alec.

A few years ago a local beagle pack did exactly this, they wanted to come into a new area and spent several weekends driving around the area introducing themselves to every landowner/ horse owner that may be affected by them crossing the land nearby, we were given the chance to say no to them coming onto the land and receive a letter by post a few weeks before any meet that is in the area, any new people to the area are quickly added to the mailing list.

The big foxhound pack are far less considerate they sometimes remember to send out a meet card, I have had a phone call from one of the joint masters , who I know, to tell me of a change to their plans, they no longer hunt on the land neighbouring me possibly in part due to their less than careful attention to communicating with people.

 

[Countryman]

This is a very sad issue. Relations between landowners and hunts should be warm, and clearly OP should have been told the hunt was nearby and permission asked to cross her land. As this did not happen, I would suggest contacting both the Secretary and the Masters, and explain why you are upset (and that you are upset). If this does not work, getting in contact with the MFHA may be the next step.

 

[Alec Swan]

The police have been told about it several times, from other land owners in the area too. I currently have two officers keeping their horses on my livery yard.
In previous years they have sent local landowners an event diary at the beginning of the season, so we would all know when they would be in the area. This way we could make sure horses were in paddocks away from the roads (like ours are) or stabled. We've had nothing from them this year, we only knew that they would be around from hearing it on grapevine... In this day of modern technology, how much time does it take to send out a group email to local landowners and farmers?
There are no riding schools or trekking centres in the area, just a few livery yards. Our horses are used to small groups of horses going past (as well as lots of cyclists and noisy farm machinery) and have never been bothered by any of it. It was the combination of the hounds, 4x4s and large groups of horses everywhere that caused them to go crazy.
There is no right of way for horses or vehicles on our property.

FYI, despite them having being contacted yesterday, we are still waiting on any response or apology from them...

Had this been your opening post, then perhaps a different opinion could have been formed. It wasn't and so you leave others to form their own conclusions. I would agree with you in that if unintentional upset has been caused and pointed out to the Master of the Pack concerned, and no one has bothered themselves to offer an apology, which would be a simple courtesy, then they will be added to the list of those who hunt who don't do themselves or hunting, any favours.

Those who hunt and who are committed to hunting can only apologise on behalf of those with little in the way of any apparent courtesy. Have you spoken directly with the Master?

Alec.

eta, as Countryman says, your next step if there is nothing forthcoming from those on the day, is to contact the MFHA. That's what I'd do.

 

[pixie]

So that hadn't even contacted you before hand :eek3: I presumed they had rang to inform you and then you had said no, no access :eek3:

It was discovered that they would be in the area. They were contacted, to remind them not to come on the property (as they know from previous contact, they have NEVER had permission to be here). They came on the property anyways.

 

[Amicus]

I don't stable my horse when the hunt passes and he just watches wistfully or if I appear rattles the gate in a 'there's still time fetch the tack' fashion he's hunted and loves it and he'd rather be able to see what's going on. I've friends who also leave there horses out without any issue.

If I saw horses going ballistic when I passed I'd pass as quietly and quickly as possible I can't see at that point what else anyone should do.

As to the bigger issue about hunts coming on without permission and being rude to land owners, that's obviously completely inappropriate and gives a bad name to all the perfectly decent packs out there. The hunt I last went out with had good relationships with local farmers and if it was delicate ground and the hounds ran the huntman would follow them but the field led by the masters would find a different route.

Can you just put padlocks on the gates on to your land until this particular hunt learns its manners?

 

[Goldenstar]

There is just no excuse for the field going onto land they have Been expressly told not to go on .
Our hunt sends cards round when the hunt is near and I phone places where I know there are horses that don't get card because they are the sort of places Alec was talking about where I know there are horses because I know the area very well .
On the in or out thing I can't hunt next weekend and the hounds are at the bottom of the hill my friend will take one out I will leave the rest in the field they will canter about if they come close but my horses have a run about and then just watch.

I think padlocks are a good idea for OP next time .

 

[Tiddlypom]

Has anyone got anywhere by reporting such incidences of deliberate trespass to the MFHA? You'd hope that the MFHA would come down on the mastership of an offending pack like a ton of bricks.

 

[Gin O'Clock]

Have PM'd you [Pixie].

 

[JDH01]

We hunt a country with alot of small landowners and we card all of those in the area even if we have no intention of going anywhere near with the trails. We have a number of landowners who will let hunt staff on but not the field and others who don't welcome us, we take every reasonable measure to keep off.

 

[Judgemental]

I don't stable my horse when the hunt passes and he just watches wistfully or if I appear rattles the gate in a 'there's still time fetch the tack'

How could you, cruel in the extreme. How would like it if everybody went to the party or ball and you were 'Cinderella' left at home.

You should hang your head with guilty shame and think of your horse feeling left out of his first love and fun.

Shocking absolutely shocking.

 

[luckyoldme]

i don t stable my horse either if the hunt is in the area, he is presumably an ex hunter (no history on him) but he is on his toes literally for about one to two days afterwards. If its a fair day i take his rug off for the day and let him get on with it. There have been times when our local hunt has nt said anything but recently they ve been brilliant at letting us know. A few years ago i was looking after a 24 year old when the hunt went past, he cleared a gate and went off hunting. No harm done , and in a way once he was home safe it was kind of nice to know he had one last hunt!

 

[Amicus]

How could you, cruel in the extreme. How would like it if everybody went to the party or ball and you were 'Cinderella' left at home.

You should hang your head with guilty shame and think of your horse feeling left out of his first love and fun.

Shocking absolutely shocking.

Exactly he tried ringing the RSPCA but for they weren't very sympathetic to his plight.

 

[Lizzie66]

I am quite amazed at what appears to be very bad manners on behalf of the hunt. The vast majority of the hunts go out of their way to ensure good behaviour from both mounted and foot followers and the masters spend a lot of time speaking to landowners double checking which areas are OK for hunt staff to go over, for the field to go over and for car followers to over. The hunts are only far too aware that their way of life is dependent on the goodwill of the land owners.

I have scanned a number of the posts and wondered if OP could confirm that they own the land (not rent) that the hunt are going over and whether or not there is bridleway or byway across the land concerned. The reason I ask about owning not renting is that many people who rent believes this gives them autonomy over the land however generally the land owner retains the sporting rights and therefore it is the owner of the sporting rights that gets to say whether a hunt can cross a property not necessarily the tenant.

Unfortunately quite a few hunts have started not sending out hunt cards, as despite hunting within the law there are far too many people that feel they have the right to disrupt people going hunting so the hunts are starting to restrict who they let know. Having said that if people phone the hunt secretaries and as when the hunt is likely to be in the area then most will oblige.

 

[ester]

Pixie did refer to herself as a land owner, and mentioned others also as landowners.
Not handing meet cards to all and sundry is fine, going over land you have been told only days previously not to is not!

 

[Lizzie66]

Pixie did refer to herself as a land owner, and mentioned others also as landowners.
Not handing meet cards to all and sundry is fine, going over land you have been told only days previously not to is not!

Again not excusing the hunt if they have gone on land that they are not allowed on as I said extremely bad manners especially if they have been told previously. It is however unusual in my experience for hunts to behave in this way they normally go out of their way to be maintain good relations.

I have read through OPs posts again and you are right that she mentions other landowners in the area and implies that she is also a landowner but from the phrasing she could equally be a tenant.

 

[popsdosh]

I must admit your thoughts had crossed my mind ,because I would find it extraordinary for a hunt to ignore somebodies wishes so blatantly without reason to.

 

[Clodagh]

I am quite amazed at what appears to be very bad manners on behalf of the hunt. The vast majority of the hunts go out of their way to ensure good behaviour from both mounted and foot followers and the masters spend a lot of time speaking to landowners double checking which areas are OK for hunt staff to go over, for the field to go over and for car followers to over. The hunts are only far too aware that their way of life is dependent on the goodwill of the land owners.

I have scanned a number of the posts and wondered if OP could confirm that they own the land (not rent) that the hunt are going over and whether or not there is bridleway or byway across the land concerned. The reason I ask about owning not renting is that many people who rent believes this gives them autonomy over the land however generally the land owner retains the sporting rights and therefore it is the owner of the sporting rights that gets to say whether a hunt can cross a property not necessarily the tenant.

Unfortunately quite a few hunts have started not sending out hunt cards, as despite hunting within the law there are far too many people that feel they have the right to disrupt people going hunting so the hunts are starting to restrict who they let know. Having said that if people phone the hunt secretaries and as when the hunt is likely to be in the area then most will oblige.

I haven't read all the posts, but Lizzie66 should the hunt really feel that tenants have no right to know? Only landowners?

 

[Goldenstar]

I haven't read all the posts, but Lizzie66 should the hunt really feel that tenants have no right to know? Only landowners?

That's not quite what Lizzie66 is saying , tenants often do not get the sporting rights with their tenancy that means they have no rights to prevent those given the use of the sporting rights to cross the land .
I have no idea if that has any relevance in this case .

 

[Lizzie66]

That's not quite what Lizzie66 is saying , tenants often do not get the sporting rights with their tenancy that means they have no rights to prevent those given the use of the sporting rights to cross the land .
I have no idea if that has any relevance in this case .

This - thank you

 

[oldie48]

I live near the boundary of two hunts, my local hunt has never been anything other than polite and helpful. They will let me know whether to expect them in the morning or afternoon. They even phoned me last week before lunch to say the scent was so poor they were going home so i needn't get my horses in. The other hunt, however, is a different story. They are considered a "fashionable hunt" but most locals would call them rude and arrogant with very poor communication. They frequently appear "off country" unannounced causing havoc. A pony jumped out of the field last season, no-one made any attempt to go after it and no-one stayed around to let the owner know what had happened, pony went for several miles crossing a busy road and getting mixed up with school traffic. It was a miracle no-one was hurt. Hunt turned up a couple of weeks ago unannounced at a friends livery yard, we are on heavy clay here and she has several horses that get very lit up including some very valuable eventers. It was mayhem, these are landowners who have expressly refused access to their land since a locked gate was lifted off it's hinges to allow the field in!! The hounds and huntsman was on their land. I've asked them to notify me if they intend to come off country, they now tell me every time they are within 10 miles of me and so far I've kept horses in but they have not appeared. They just make me so angry and I am not even in their country! Unfortunately as they annoy more people the country they have to hunt gets smaller so the same people get them more frequently but they are their own worst enemy!

 

[ester]

I wonder if the latter as the same as who the OP has had trouble with.
I honestly can't imagine going out with people that would just leave an escaped pony running.

 

[oldie48]

I wonder if the latter as the same as who the OP has had trouble with.
I honestly can't imagine going out with people that would just leave an escaped pony running.

seems we are in different parts of the country but anyone who knows their hunts, will, I'm sure, know which hunt I'm talking about!!

 

[Alec Swan]

I'm just wondering, have any of you who are so aggrieved, bothered to contact the MFHA? Complaining on here is a pointless exercise, unless you back up your grievances by going to the regulatory body of those who follow hounds.

For those who have spoken with the MFHA, what was their response?

Alec.

 

[Judgemental]

I'm just wondering, have any of you who are so aggrieved, bothered to contact the MFHA? Complaining on here is a pointless exercise, unless you back up your grievances by going to the regulatory body of those who follow hounds.

For those who have spoken with the MFHA, what was their response?

Alec.

Exactly Alec. Strikes me that the majority are a bunch of whingers and not very genuine one's.

If they have a grievance rock up at the hunt kennels, the doorstep of the secretary and/or the master and air their problem, that's assuming it is as I say genuine!

Far too many folk about complaining about this that and the other!