marc
Member
Has anyone had any experience where two packs have merged for any reason? What was the response of the subscribers and how long did it take for the merged hunt to be successful, if they ever were?
Hunt Mergers
- Thread starter marc
- Start date
Maesfen
Extremely Old Nag!
It's happened a lot and I imagine has worked well although for sure, some people will have had their noses pushed out of joint because of it.
I remember the Southdown merging with the Eridge; the Vine with the Craven (am I imagining it or have they now merged with the Hampshire too?); the East Sussex with the Romney Marsh; the Grove with the Rufford and latterly the Kimblewick which is an amalgamation of five different packs. I'm sure there are loads more as well (perhaps others can add to that list, would make an interesting thread?!)
I remember the Southdown merging with the Eridge; the Vine with the Craven (am I imagining it or have they now merged with the Hampshire too?); the East Sussex with the Romney Marsh; the Grove with the Rufford and latterly the Kimblewick which is an amalgamation of five different packs. I'm sure there are loads more as well (perhaps others can add to that list, would make an interesting thread?!)
Countryman
Well-Known Member
Far too young to remember it, but I know the Bicester merged with the Whaddon Chase years ago. Also lots of Kent packs and hunts that hunt around London have merged mostly due to urbanisation. I do think mergers are a great shame, because the bigger the hunt country gets the less individual members know each other and the less a community it is- but regrettably they often seem to be necessary. Some have worked very well-eg the Bicester, and others not quite so well.
Captain Crasher
New User
Surely, it depends whether its a merger, amalgamation (or re-amalgamation), or just a straight forward take-over of the weak, by the strong!Circumstances will, I'm sure, alter cases. Just as noses (even the ones that get put out of joint!), alter faces.
Sherston
Well-Known Member
The Old Surrey and the Burstow and the West Kent
Hursley and Hambleton
The Meynell and the South Staffs
The Blackmore and the Sparkford Vale
To name a just few more.
Not all hunts with two names are merged though, as with the Crawley and Horsham, thats always been that (as far as I am aware!).
In the happy days of the late 19th century the problem was the other way round with hunts dividing, Noth and South Atherstone, VWH Cricklade and VWH Cirencester, North Warwickshire from the Warwicksire. But as these hunts were just loaned country as oposed to having their own they just disappeared as they were subsumed back into the other pack.
Hunt history - what a great topic!
Sherston
Hursley and Hambleton
The Meynell and the South Staffs
The Blackmore and the Sparkford Vale
To name a just few more.
Not all hunts with two names are merged though, as with the Crawley and Horsham, thats always been that (as far as I am aware!).
In the happy days of the late 19th century the problem was the other way round with hunts dividing, Noth and South Atherstone, VWH Cricklade and VWH Cirencester, North Warwickshire from the Warwicksire. But as these hunts were just loaned country as oposed to having their own they just disappeared as they were subsumed back into the other pack.
Hunt history - what a great topic!
Sherston
Hunters
Well-Known Member
The kimblewick was an amalgamation too far in many people's opinion. Hence the warning on the forum.
Hunters
Well-Known Member
The warning seems to have gone.
When two hunts merge there's a reason for it, it's the same with business.
There is usually the stronger hunt & it is down to them as to how well the merger will work.
When two hunts merge there's a reason for it, it's the same with business.
There is usually the stronger hunt & it is down to them as to how well the merger will work.
marc
Member
thanks for the replies
JenHunt
Well-Known Member
I've only seen a merger that didn't work, and tbh it was more complicated than just 2 hunts trying to merge - but I'm not going into that here.
I think that if both hunts work together, and get their subscribers, land owners, farmers and supporters fully involved then there's no reason it shouldn't work.
I think that if both hunts work together, and get their subscribers, land owners, farmers and supporters fully involved then there's no reason it shouldn't work.
Hunters
Well-Known Member
Jenhunt - I suspect I know which hunt you are talking about 
Herne
Well-Known Member
Mergers are an unavoidable necessity and will happen more and more frequently as development, new roads etc splits hunt countries into smaller and smaller chunks.
People who harp back to old glories rather than looking to the future and doing their very best to try to help make things work so that future generations can have some chance of getting some of the enjoyment that they themselves have had are being stupid, childish and ungrateful.
They do themselves, their hunts and hunting no favours and they should just get a grip.
And, no, I am not thinking of any hunt in particular here - because there are always such idiots trying to ruin things involved in every Hunt merger, whereever it may be.
People who harp back to old glories rather than looking to the future and doing their very best to try to help make things work so that future generations can have some chance of getting some of the enjoyment that they themselves have had are being stupid, childish and ungrateful.
They do themselves, their hunts and hunting no favours and they should just get a grip.
And, no, I am not thinking of any hunt in particular here - because there are always such idiots trying to ruin things involved in every Hunt merger, whereever it may be.
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JenHunt
Well-Known Member
quite - and that's what I mean about getting everyone involved, and informed, and finding out their objections and trying to work through them to move to a positive future!
surely, one larger, amalgamated hunt is better than 2 that fail.
marc
Member
Interesting, How about if one hunt is highly successful whilst the other has gone bump and wont be hunting next season? If there is an option of dividing the defunct land between neighbouring hunts wouldnt that please a few more people?
Herne
Well-Known Member
Sadly, mergers seldom arise because 2 Hunts are going down.
More usually the scenario is that one hunt becomes unviable, so the only sensible way forward is to merge it with one or more viable hunts for the benefit of hunting as a whole.
The problem is that people within the unviable hunt become fixated with that hunt's glorious past and start accusing the other hunts of foul play.
Things become even more difficult when dealing with hunts that are country and follower poor but asset rich. There there are even more cries of foul play.
However, the inevitable truth is that the more and more development happens in this over-crowded, little island of ours, the fewer and fewer hunts will remain viable.
This is INEVITABLE. People need to get a grip and move with it.
More usually the scenario is that one hunt becomes unviable, so the only sensible way forward is to merge it with one or more viable hunts for the benefit of hunting as a whole.
The problem is that people within the unviable hunt become fixated with that hunt's glorious past and start accusing the other hunts of foul play.
Things become even more difficult when dealing with hunts that are country and follower poor but asset rich. There there are even more cries of foul play.
However, the inevitable truth is that the more and more development happens in this over-crowded, little island of ours, the fewer and fewer hunts will remain viable.
This is INEVITABLE. People need to get a grip and move with it.
Hunters
Well-Known Member
Yes & sometimes people work very hard to make all aspects of the amalgamation work, others sadly are more business minded asset strippers.
Stark Dismay
Well-Known Member
Lots of hunts are amalgamations of 2 or more packs. It's fairly safe to hazard a guess that if the hunt has 'and' in it's name it was probably 2 hunts that merged at some point.
The important thing in making amalgamations work is that everyone involved has to work together and WANT to work together. It's no use just plonking 2 previously separate countries, subscribers and landowners together and hoping it all works out. Both sides have to feel what is being done is being done well and fairly. This seems to have been achieved in many cases - the pack I hunt with now has an 'and' in it's name, and it is never mentioned. All seems well there. A previous pack I hunted with had, and still has, terrible problems. Bullying behaviour by the perceived 'stronger' side of the 'weaker' side is a kind of sure fire way of making sure an amalgamation won't work.
The important thing in making amalgamations work is that everyone involved has to work together and WANT to work together. It's no use just plonking 2 previously separate countries, subscribers and landowners together and hoping it all works out. Both sides have to feel what is being done is being done well and fairly. This seems to have been achieved in many cases - the pack I hunt with now has an 'and' in it's name, and it is never mentioned. All seems well there. A previous pack I hunted with had, and still has, terrible problems. Bullying behaviour by the perceived 'stronger' side of the 'weaker' side is a kind of sure fire way of making sure an amalgamation won't work.
marc
Member
Great posts thanks for your opinions. The members of the hunt that is closing dont appear to be kicking up a fuss at this stage and they have no fixed assets as such. The subscribers of the other hunt are less happy as the general opinion is that the country merging is of poor quality and can be difficult to access at busy travelling times.
Captain Crasher
New User
If one Hunt is to be "swallowed up " by the other, and its traditions, days of meeting etc, are to be forgotten, it seems odd that its current subscribers have little to say on the matter.
Perhaps a solution that would be more acceptable to the bigger Hunt's subscribers would be if the newly merged Hunt proposed to hunt in the taken over country on a given day of the week.. That way the existing subscribers of the bigger Hunt are not seeing their hunting diminished, and the smaller Hunt are still having the opportunity to get out in their familiar area, on some of their traditional days.Obviously, all full subscribers to the merged Hunt could go to any Meets, wherever they were held.
I think I am correct in giving as an example of this the Meynell & South Staffs mainly hunting in the old South Staffs country on a Thursday, which was one of the South Staffs days, even though its forty years since they amalgamated.
Mark Gilbert
Well-Known Member
Hunts that merge generally do for the greater good, its always a shame to loose a hunt and with the current climate hitting everyone hunts are going to face lots of financial pressure. My concern is the loss of hound blood lines, as long as the packs are merged at the same time it can only be positive.
If you are worried about your hunt the best way to help is to hunt!
If you are worried about your hunt the best way to help is to hunt!
happyhunter123
Well-Known Member
According to the latest copy of Hounds Magazine, the Albrighton and the Albrighton Woodland are to amalgamate next season.
The Crawley & Horsham and the Surrey Union are also in discussions over a possible amalgamation. I wonder if one day, there'll be one pack with a huge country covering the whole South East?
The Crawley & Horsham and the Surrey Union are also in discussions over a possible amalgamation. I wonder if one day, there'll be one pack with a huge country covering the whole South East?
marc
Member
Im involved with AH, the vote on tuesday resulted in 85% voting in favour of the amalgamation, the AWH get to vote on it next week. Most of us have now come to realise that this will work out for the best and our farmers land will get visited less often and ground cut up with a possible flesh round too.
Hunters
Well-Known Member
I hope it works well for all of you.
JenHunt
Well-Known Member
marc - how has the second part of the voting gone? (has it even happened yet?!)
I really hope that you (both hunts) can make it work - as you say, there's some very persuasive reasons for the farmers, and landowners alike.... and for the followers, they get the excitment of hunting in unfamiliar territory, and making new friends, and let's face it, that's why the majority of followers go hunting!
I really hope that you (both hunts) can make it work - as you say, there's some very persuasive reasons for the farmers, and landowners alike.... and for the followers, they get the excitment of hunting in unfamiliar territory, and making new friends, and let's face it, that's why the majority of followers go hunting!
jess_asterix
Well-Known Member
The Albrighton woodland voted 100% for the merge.
So there is a lot of support from both sides which is great
So there is a lot of support from both sides which is great
Maesfen
Extremely Old Nag!
Sounds good Jess; the WH are getting more country and the AH get more professional support. Let's just hope that some egos don't get in the way and it becomes territorial.
Good luck to their new staff and happy hunting.
Good luck to their new staff and happy hunting.
Harry44
Well-Known Member
Sounds good, will the new country go from Stafford down to Stourport way? I was on the border of the three hunts but looks like I'll be in the middle of the new Albrighton country, will have to come out with you guys next season
Countryman
Well-Known Member
Good to hear of a merger going so well.
jess_asterix
Well-Known Member
Yes country will run from the north of 'Albrighton' country (adbaston/gnosall etc) all the way to the south of woodland country (chaddesley) so will open up more meets during the shooting season especially and allow a potential 5 days a fortnight.
I am in Worfield so also slap bang in the middle of the country, perfect really.
I am in Worfield so also slap bang in the middle of the country, perfect really.
JenHunt
Well-Known Member
brilliant news, let's hope that the summer brings all sorts of good things, and that next season makes all the hard work worthwhile for all concerned!
Harry44
Well-Known Member
Jess, I'm in Claverley not to far from you at all! I hunt with the Wheatland but will have to do a few days with the Albrighton/Woodland next season. I hope it all goes well.