Hunt... Or vet?

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misskk88

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I know this post has probably been done to death a thousand times.... But I wanted a refreshed view!

I will be considering putting my retired mare to sleep in the coming months, and I want to consider all options for her when I finally do. It is tough. And I am so torn, but I want to prepare myself :(

I have always thought I would probably want the vet. BUT, I have had very conflicting views (and I am sure I will get the same here!).

One side has said they couldn't bare the thought of the hunt and have heard horror stories of the gun not being loaded correctly, having to try twice and then the lack of care with the body when loading it. They chose to have the injection with their horse, they found it fairly peaceful, like the fact they could cremate and keep ashes etc and supposedly dosing is now different to ensure there are not so many complications... is this true?

Other horsey friends have said they have seen both and wouldn't want the vet. They didn't like the fact the horses seemed to fight it, and that they could literally see the life fading. They have dealt with very professional and sympathetic people from the hunt too, and felt their handling of the horse before, as well as the fact it was instant, was the right choice for them. It meant absolutely no suffering or stress for the horse.

My horse had some serious vets treatment for colic a few months ago. She was ok with injections but was seriously stressed out by them coming along and prodding and poking, which is a big consideration into my decision. Although I can imagine she wouldn't even be bothered, I am worried about taking that risk for her last moments. The other thing is taking into consideration wishes of yard owners... can they have any influence in the choice I make?

What have you all chosen in the past, and why?
 
I'm sadly having my oldie PTS in the coming months. I have option of vet or knackerman.

Our vet only does injection and then contracts with someone else for the 'end of life services' (taking body away and mass cremation)

Our local knackerman will shoot, take away and cremate (old mare is on bute and I don't even want her going into the animal food chain) - he will come out to us as well at any time.

I've pretty much decided to go with the knackerman option - I just don't think I want to see her drop under sedation. The shot is quick, she will be eating an apple one second and gone the next.

And now I'm welling up thinking about it :(

I do think this is something that is different for everyone though - it's a very personal thing.
 
I had a horse pts by the vet, using the injection. That horse was not needle-phobic though. I chose this as I thought it would be less distressing for me, than having him shot, seeing as I was there the whole time. It was over very quickly.
A friend had the hunt out for her old mare. Again, very quick & efficient.
No-one but you can decide although if your horse is really upset by injections I would probably say have the gun.
 
I had the hunt out to the last two we had to have PTS. Instant, efficient and the body is removed straight away. Yes there will be some cleaning up to do but funnily enough I was ok with that. My old boy hates needles and so do I. He'll probably go the same way to TBH when he time comes. Everyone has their own view, opinions, horror stories etc but as the owner it is down to you to make the best decision for you and your horse.
 
Madlady... thinking of you, as I know exactly what you must be going through right now.

Suestowford, my other thoughts, like you, are that I would like to be there for her last moments, which I would only want to be for the vet and not hunt. So that is another thought in my head right now.
 
As a YO I would not want to influence any owner on their choice, the only thing I would do is, if it was a planned pts rather than an emergency, ask for it to be arranged at a sensible time when there were only a few people around and no children, it just makes it easier for everyone, not least the owner, if it is quiet and nobody can come along and start giving their advice/ opinions or gets upset.

As for what is best there are many different views, I have seen both and never had any go wrong, the loading is not nice and you are best leaving whoever comes to do this without you watching, getting a dead horse into a box is not dignified however hard they try to take care by then the horse knows nothing but it can be upsetting for the owner, go and have a cry/ cup of tea or something stronger and do not watch.
 
Yes, I didn't watch while his body was taken away. But I felt I had to be there until he'd died, I didn't want his last moments to be with strangers.
 
My friend has her two horses put down by injection via vet. She held my horse for the hunt/knackerman. She now says she will always use the latter method having seen both as it was so instant, he had no idea what was happening and literally went with a carrot in his mouth knowing nothing of it.
 
be positive said:
As a YO I would not want to influence any owner on their choice, the only thing I would do is, if it was a planned pts rather than an emergency, ask for it to be arranged at a sensible time when there were only a few people around and no children, it just makes it easier for everyone, not least the owner, if it is quiet and nobody can come along and start giving their advice/ opinions or gets upset.

As for what is best there are many different views, I have seen both and never had any go wrong, the loading is not nice and you are best leaving whoever comes to do this without you watching, getting a dead horse into a box is not dignified however hard they try to take care by then the horse knows nothing but it can be upsetting for the owner, go and have a cry/ cup of tea or something stronger and do not watch.
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This as well OP. I had it planned for midday when no one was around, just outside his field. Made sure everyone around had time to move their horses if they wished (though it was behind a hedge). Also its personal preference as to whether you can be there or not. Had he been done by injection I would have, but I couldn't bear the idea of being there if he was done by gun (especially as I'm pretty squeamish at the best of times) even though I knew it was the right decision for him. I could hold a horse of my friends for the gun but when it came down to it I couldn't do it for my own and I don't regret it. He knew my friend so I felt no guilt there.

Good luck and I'm sorry you have to make this decision. It's horrible and hard and I'd love to say the pain won't last long but 2 months later and I still bawl whenever I think about it! xxxx
 
Peregrine Falcon - you mentioned that fact you needed to clean up after choosing the hunt. Like you, I don't think I would find this distressing, but how do you deal with it on a livery yard?

Thanks others for your responses too. All food for thought :)
 
misskk88 said:
Peregrine Falcon - you mentioned that fact you needed to clean up after choosing the hunt. Like you, I don't think I would find this distressing, but how do you deal with it on a livery yard?

Thanks others for your responses too. All food for thought :)
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There was absolutely zero mess with my horse :) Literally nothing, done on grass.
 
No experience of the hunt , I chose the vet. It was so very hard but very quick and aside from her going down seemed not to be stressful for her. As soon as she was down she just drifted off. Shooting seems so violent to me plus I didn't want her to be chopped up aeaten by dogs. It's a very difficult thing whichever you decide and I fill up even thinking about it . As horse owners and horse lovers it's a decision most of us will have to make at some point . I've had to do it 4 times , I know too well how your feeling x
 
So sorry that you are having to make the decision - its not easy, but the last kindness of a loving owner.

I have used both vet and knackerman, it's a very individual choice for everyone and every horse. The vet was someone they had known for years and they liked him. The knackerman was very professional and very very kind to both horse and humans. Talk to them about the process, you are best to sort out exactly where and when beforehand as you want everything to be quiet and peaceful.

Two things that could help: don't watch the body being loaded (remember it's not your horse then, she's gone and just left her overcoat) and, if you can, have someone with you especially if you need to travel to and from a yard - someone who will look after you.
 
misskk88 said:
Peregrine Falcon - you mentioned that fact you needed to clean up after choosing the hunt. Like you, I don't think I would find this distressing, but how do you deal with it on a livery yard?

Thanks others for your responses too. All food for thought :)
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When Poppy went there was barely any blood split so I just threw a few leaves over the patch. Tess bled a bit more, although they were both done in a grassed area away from the other horses, the ground was dry so the area stained. My friend couldn't look at it so I threw water over it and brushed it with a hard broom, then covered with leaves again.

Some don't bled at all, just down to the individual animal. I didn't stay for the collection either. It is a very upsetting decision to make but we are lucky to be able to end suffering. Sending best wishes to you.
 
Hard choice made more difficult by everyone's very differing experiences. I have used the hunt, knackerman and vet and would by choice choose the vet. I would never use the hunt now unless it was a real emergency after a lot of hideous experiences but would use a knackerman . I have never had an injection go wrong, the horses were dead before they hit the ground, no twitching or anything. They were done by experienced horse vets and weren't sedated before hand. The potential for a shooting to go wrong and then dealing with that is , from experience, much harder and more dangerous for everyone.
 
I have only ever had mine done by the vet with injection so can't comment on the hunt/knackerman. I've had 4 pts at home over the past 8 years and all have gone very easily with a polo in their mouth.

Ditto what others say about not being around for the loading of the body.
 
I've witnessed both methods and will be choosing the vet for my mare I think; I found the injection to be peaceful and when my horse had to be sedated she simply drifts off, so I'm hoping it will be the same.
 
If it is planned, I would ask the hunt to do it, they are far more experienced, phone them up and explain you want it to be the first job and he has to be in fresh overalls, and you will pay for any extra expense if needed. Personally I would not want to witness the actual deed.
I would only use a vet IV if horse was at the vet clinic and they don't want to shoot [a sedative can be used ]
 
I went with the vet for my youngster, she was only 3, i was really worried about it having had loads of horror stories about them fighting it, and at my last yard every time anything was PTS there was always a big faff about holding them with lunge lines in case they fought etc... with my filly it was so peaceful i was so grateful, she was quickly heavily sedated and we wandered to the field whilst that took effect, it was a gorgeous evening, i gave her a couple of carrots and then within seconds she was gone via injection - literally just fell asleep. Bonkers I know but as she was so young I didnt want the concept of 'violence' in my head which is what i associate guns with. Having said that i can quite see why people prefer that method, i think there are pro's and cons of both - and in reality am fully aware there is no 'violence' involved in either if you deal with sympathetic and professional people. I did like the fact she looked like she was asleep and there was no visible sign of what had happened... but fundamentally whilst i sound really selfish i knew that would be quickest and best for her, she knew my vet and she was comfortable with him - if she was needle phobic i think i would have seriously considered the hunt instead.

Good luck, there is no right or wrong answer - and yes dont wait for your horse to be taken away
 
I had my mare shot last year by the local knackerman. On the plus side - INSTANT - she went with a mouthful of food, I held her until the very last second. My YO arranged to be there and as soon as it was done I walked away, and between YO and the guy they sorted everything else, the body was loaded and the blood washed and swept. Downside, as I had to walk away, I missed that quiet moment after she went, which I know I WILL want with my old gelding. He's been with me 22 years and counting. I will not be able to just walk away from him in the same way, so I may want to make a different choice for him. Maybe once he's gone I won't want to, I'll know he's gone and the 'tie' will be broken, but the bond with that horse is so strong I'm not sure I could do the same. But then, he's distrustful of vets and doesn't like needles either, so it's going to be tough choice either way. He's still in rude health though so I'm burying my head and trying not to think about it too much just yet. :(
 
misskk88 I'm so sorry you are having to make this decision, I recently lost my very special Arab boy, the vet put him to sleep, it was very quiet and peaceful, the day after we buried him by his pasture. Personally I think shooting is too old fashioned and violent plus I would never let any of my horses or ponies go to be torn up for dog meat, again that's just what I do, my sister also had her horse put to sleep (he was quit young as well, fort it a bit but then he went quietly). At the end it is your choice but I would say vet any day.
 
I have had both. No problems with either.

The injected ones just fell asleep.

I say my goodbyes privately, before the deed is done, before anyone comes, when it is done I just walk away. I am not actually as heartless as I appear to bystanders.


The shot horses were pts by the Hunt. They were hunters, they were going to a party as far as they were concerned.
Sometimes they went to the kennels sometimes the kennelman came out.
My arab went with hounds singing in his ears and a bowl of oats at his head, quick, efficient and, for him the right way to go, he knew nothing.
 
Sorry you're having to make this decision OP. I had to make it for the first time earlier this year, and I chose the vet - we had been through a lot and I knew I wanted to be there with him, and I wouldn't have been able to do that if I'd chosen the bullet.

I wrongly anticipated that being there while the deed was done would be the toughest part. It wasn't. The hardest part by far was seeing the removal truck and the vet's car pulling down the driveway as I went to fetch him in from the field and brought him down to the school (we do ours there for access reasons.) That is the one part I can't bear thinking about for some reason.

As far as the injection was concerned, it was peaceful, fairly dignified and I had as much time as I wanted with him afterwards. I then left my vet to sort everything out with the removal man, and I was very thankful for her help as I didn't want to stay any longer.

It's a personal thing, and I'm sure you'll make the best decision for you and your horse.
 
I was talking to a friend about this yesterday. We work at an equine hospital and a horse was going to be PTS in the afternoon. The owner had chosen for the knackerman to come to the hospital to shoot it in the indoor school - quite unorthodox, as usually it's taken care of by the vets via IV.

Our concern was if there were to be a mess, being shot in an indoor could potentially be quite hard to clean up. However, this was the owner's choice, so obviously no-one stood in their way. I don't know how it turned out, but I did get to give the horse a groom before I left. A lovely dignified boy.

There has never been a mishap with the vets and lethal injection in my experience, so that's the method I'll choose when the time comes. Mine, however, are fine with vets and needles.

It's a tough one, and possibly a decision which may not become clear until "the time".
 
happybear said:
Sorry you're having to make this decision OP. I had to make it for the first time earlier this year, and I chose the vet - we had been through a lot and I knew I wanted to be there with him, and I wouldn't have been able to do that if I'd chosen the bullet.

I wrongly anticipated that being there while the deed was done would be the toughest part. It wasn't. The hardest part by far was seeing the removal truck and the vet's car pulling down the driveway as I went to fetch him in from the field and brought him down to the school (we do ours there for access reasons.) That is the one part I can't bear thinking about for some reason.

As far as the injection was concerned, it was peaceful, fairly dignified and I had as much time as I wanted with him afterwards. I then left my vet to sort everything out with the removal man, and I was very thankful for her help as I didn't want to stay any longer.

It's a personal thing, and I'm sure you'll make the best decision for you and your horse.
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This is also the first time I will be making the decision. I have loaned and owned others in the past, but this time, it is solely MY decision. I think that is what makes it tougher - I only have other peoples experiences, as well as my own understanding of my horse.

I agree, the hardest part will certainly be seeing whoever has come to PTS turning up, putting the headcollar on, and being with them for the last time.

I already know what that partially feels like. I remember sitting with her when she had a severe impaction colic a few months ago. I honestly thought it was her last moments and she just stood with her head in my arms, whilst we waited for the vet to come and check on her. That was the first time it hit home and I CRIED. Miraculously she picked up. But I won't ever forget that lump in throat feeling and the fact I will have to feel it again soon :(

Out of curiosity, what is the usual process with the vet? Will they arrange the removal person to be there, or do you have to sort both separately? Or, can you choose to arrange both separately? Is there a difference in cost/process/time it takes etc?
 
misskk88, my heart goes out to you in making decisions, its hard for all horse owners to do x

Having been with 5 horses and 3 ponies this year, I totally understand the need to know the answers.

If you, or anyone on this thread needs to talk, then the BHS offer a Friends At The End service. Staff at the HO are trained to give information and also then refer onto a local office should you wish - this is someone not too far away from you who can chat on the phone, can also pop over to see you, can even hold horse/pony if you want.
Sometimes its just a friendly chat on the phone to answer questions, the 'How' and 'Where' and different disposal and the like.

If you want any help, do drop me a PM
 
misskk88 said:
Out of curiosity, what is the usual process with the vet? Will they arrange the removal person to be there, or do you have to sort both separately? Or, can you choose to arrange both separately? Is there a difference in cost/process/time it takes etc?
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Your vet can usually arrange everything if you wish from start to finish, though it will be their preferred knackerman for removal to cremation or elsewhere of your choice.

If you are wanting to arrange knackerman or perhaps crem staff, then you can arrange that yourself too and not involve the vet.

Usually if using your own vet, you will get billed after.
However, if using anyone else for dispatch or disposal you will be asked for payment prior to them coming, or payment on the day, so you do need to bear this in mind as sometimes it can be a bit too clinical for some.

To add: A planned PTS can be usually easily sorted with vet/knackerman or collector to all arrive at same time. I prefer collector to park their vehicle out of my sight till job is done, but thats just my preference.
Its only an emergency PTS that can make things more difficult out of hours for the body to be collected in a timely manner.
 
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misskk88 said:
I know this post has probably been done to death a thousand times.... But I wanted a refreshed view!

I will be considering putting my retired mare to sleep in the coming months, and I want to consider all options for her when I finally do. It is tough. And I am so torn, but I want to prepare myself :(

I have always thought I would probably want the vet. BUT, I have had very conflicting views (and I am sure I will get the same here!).

One side has said they couldn't bare the thought of the hunt and have heard horror stories of the gun not being loaded correctly, having to try twice and then the lack of care with the body when loading it. They chose to have the injection with their horse, they found it fairly peaceful, like the fact they could cremate and keep ashes etc and supposedly dosing is now different to ensure there are not so many complications... is this true?

Other horsey friends have said they have seen both and wouldn't want the vet. They didn't like the fact the horses seemed to fight it, and that they could literally see the life fading. They have dealt with very professional and sympathetic people from the hunt too, and felt their handling of the horse before, as well as the fact it was instant, was the right choice for them. It meant absolutely no suffering or stress for the horse.

My horse had some serious vets treatment for colic a few months ago. She was ok with injections but was seriously stressed out by them coming along and prodding and poking, which is a big consideration into my decision. Although I can imagine she wouldn't even be bothered, I am worried about taking that risk for her last moments. The other thing is taking into consideration wishes of yard owners... can they have any influence in the choice I make?

What have you all chosen in the past, and why?
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I am a yard owner and would never influence an owner one way or the other - it just so happens that all that have been pts have been by injection

I have always used vet for mine and always will, I have seen the other option many many times in my lifetime.

One of my livery owners had their mare put down some years ago and found it very upsetting and traumatic, this time long before his time their beloved JoJo had to be pts due to loosing the battle with herpes 5 virus, they wanted the vet but were not sure how they would deal with the actual pts bit - they found inner strength and were the for as was his sharer. It was so so peaceful he gradually sat back a little with front legs straight then was lying down like they do and just rolled onto his side and fell asleep in their arms.

They found it much better than the other as they want his ashes back and are currently waiting for them from the lovely guy Giles from such a nice guy who gave the respect to the horse the whole way through the cremation as well - I cannot rate him highly enough http://www.equineandpetservices.co.uk/home.html

The only thing I would say is after you say goodbye turn around and walk quietly away and do not look back - as the winching in I have never seen or would want too.
 
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