Hunter trial tomorrow.. Hard ground ?

[foxy1]

I've just been and walked the course for a hunter trial tomorrow, really disappointed to find the ground hard (expected) and in places quite poached/rutted (unexpected). There is sand on take off and landing, but quite a long course with lots of cantering between fences.
I'm only entered in the 70cm, I'm thinking I should withdraw but my friend thinks I'm being overly precious.
What would you do?

 

[Tiddlypom]

Hard ground which is also poached and rutted? Not worth the risk, I'd pull from it if was me.

 

[foxy1]

Thanks; my friend thinks I'm making a fuss because I'm nervous, it's good to hear another viewpoint!

 

[Nicnac]

I wouldn't personally even if there is excellent grass covering and your horse runs across the top of the ground, the ruts/poached ground would concern me more.

 

[milliepops]

it's one of those things where the chances are it will be fine, but if your horse picks up an injury from the rutted ground you'd really really kick yourself for something so avoidable that you had prior concerns about :/

 

[Red-1]

I would withdraw.

I have withdrawn form BE events for the same reason, after driving 4 hours to get there!

Horses are too precious.

 

[AdorableAlice]

You wouldn't canter up the road so why canter on the ground we currently have. If you factor in the rutted ground you would actually do less damage by cantering on smooth tarmac.

Put him away for another day, a jarred up horse can take forever to come right.

 

[palo1]

I would rather canter on a decent bit of road than hard, rutted going, sorry. Don't worry about what others think, do what feels right for you and your horse.

 

[Michen]

You feel uncomfortable even now, imagine how you’ll feel in the warm up. 4 odd minutes of fun and you potentially bruise your horse up for months. What on earth is the point

I’d consider it on perfect flat ground on a horse that loved hard ground with fantastic, barefoot feet. Anything else? No way.

 

[Michen]

it's one of those things where the chances are it will be fine, but if your horse picks up an injury from the rutted ground you'd really really kick yourself for something so avoidable that you had prior concerns about :/

I bet a lot of the horses aren’t fine though. I expect many are jarred up, bilaterally, and it goes unnoticed.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Quite a few horses picked up injuries at Perth races over the last few days and that was on watered ground. Personally I wouldn't risk it and keep your horse for another day.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

I was invited to join a couple of friends xc schooling today but I declined 2 days ago completely due to the ground. Yes the landings are sanded but in between the going is very variable from ok to dreadful.
I'm now staying at jumping on a surface, cantering lightly in my top field which is springy old turf.
Local gallop is currently shut, boo!

I'd rather save us till better conditions.

 

[foxy1]

Thanks everyone, glad I'm not alone in my misgivings.
Will email the secretary to withdraw.

 

[palo1]

Thanks everyone, glad I'm not alone in my misgivings.
Will email the secretary to withdraw.

So frustrating for you but if it feels right, it is right.

 

[racebuddy]

I woudlnt risk it , ground hard
And would rather save them for another day ???

 

[Mrs G]

You are right to go with your gut feelings Foxy1. There’s enough to think/worry about when you’re competing and if you’re worried about the ground you might subconsciously ride more conservatively which could cause issues too.

 

[brighteyes]

Withdraw. Not worth the risk. And you aren't being half as precious as his legs!

 

[LEC]

So I would caveat it with several factors.

What is your horses build and way of going? What are the long term aims and how instrumental is this in achieving them?

Rutted would put me off the most. I just think there is no excuse for that.

Hard is fine especially if take off and landings are done well. I do think we tend to be slightly precious in UK vs Australia/America which manage to keep horses sound on harder going but they event a lot of TB types in those countries who probably stand up to it better and are conditioned to it better.

The long term goals thing is also a factor. I have run a horse on firm as it needed the run before it headed to RC champs 3 day. The event had done a lot of work so I wasn’t too worried on a TB type who went better on top of the ground/firm.

 

[foxy1]

So I would caveat it with several factors.

What is your horses build and way of going? What are the long term aims and how instrumental is this in achieving them?

Rutted would put me off the most. I just think there is no excuse for that.

Hard is fine especially if take off and landings are done well. I do think we tend to be slightly precious in UK vs Australia/America which manage to keep horses sound on harder going but they event a lot of TB types in those countries who probably stand up to it better and are conditioned to it better.

The long term goals thing is also a factor. I have run a horse on firm as it needed the run before it headed to RC champs 3 day. The event had done a lot of work so I wasn’t too worried on a TB type who went better on top of the ground/firm.

Thanks Lec
Yes, I expected the ground to be firm; had it been smooth ie. not poached or rutted, and there was good grass cover, with the take off and landings sanded, then I'd have gone and taken it steady.

 

[ycbm]

So I would caveat it with several factors.

What is your horses build and way of going? What are the long term aims and how instrumental is this in achieving them?

Rutted would put me off the most. I just think there is no excuse for that.

Hard is fine especially if take off and landings are done well. I do think we tend to be slightly precious in UK vs Australia/America which manage to keep horses sound on harder going but they event a lot of TB types in those countries who probably stand up to it better and are conditioned to it better.

The long term goals thing is also a factor. I have run a horse on firm as it needed the run before it headed to RC champs 3 day. The event had done a lot of work so I wasn’t too worried on a TB type who went better on top of the ground/firm.

A very experienced trainer once said to me about eventing "if you don't run on the hard, and you don't run in the mud, then in the UK you're never going to run at all". I thought she had a point, and I ran whatever, but I wouldn't have done if the ground had also been rutted.
.

 

[OldNag]

In similar circumstances I have withdrawn - just not worth the risk. I don't think you were being overly precious.

 

[Upthecreek]

A very experienced trainer once said to me about eventing "if you don't run on the hard, and you don't run in the mud, then in the UK you're never going to run at all". I thought she had a point, and I ran whatever, but I wouldn't have done if the ground had also been rutted.
.

Totally agree. If you are serious about competing your training must include road work/hard ground work so that you’ve done the conditioning to prepare. If you aren’t that serious about competing and you don’t feel your horse is adequately prepared it is definitely better to withdraw. Rutted hard ground is dangerous though and poor of the venue not to have done something about it.

 

[Michen]

I don’t think people withdrawing their horses due to hard ground aren’t serious about competing or haven’t done conditioning work.

Laura Collett the other week had, I think 3 horses including London 52 and Mr Bass sat in 1st place in a 4 star and withdrew all due to ground. That’s obviously the top end of the game, but it’s not unreasonable for us low level riders to want to protect our horses just as much.

I also don’t think however much road work or general work on firm ground (for my horses at the moment that’s every single ride so 5/7 hours a week) can protect them against cantering, galloping and jumping for 4-5 mins over a hard course of jumps from potential bruising or injury.

 

[HappyHollyDays]

My Farrier jokingly remarked it was probably safer to canter on tarmac rather than the ground we have at the moment. I’m not going to try it but it probably has more give than our baked hard clay and is lovely and smooth.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Conditioning to prepare for hard ground is one thing. No one can really prepare for for the actual competition though can they? Do you regularly school round an entire course of xc jumps on hard ground at competition speed? No. So you can't realistically prefer fully for it.

The horses breed and conformation will also come into play. A big heavy set, cob type will hit the ground harder and would almost certainly appreciate a softer surface. A middle weight horse (most general horses fit into this category) won't hit the ground as hard as a cob type but will still need a slightly softer surface to take up the impact on the joints, tendons and ligaments. A lighter framed, tb type horse can usually skip across the ground better though some are well known to be bog lovers. Each horse is different.

Conformation plays a huge part too. Long pastern and cannon bones are not great on a firmer surface. Because there is no give in the ground they are more likely to become jarred up but more than that they have a higher risk of injuring a tendon or ligament because feet can't sink into the ground to absorb the impact thus the bones and joints flex more which in turn over stretches the soft tissue.

Feet also play a huge part. You horse needs good feet to cope with the ground. A horse with slightly dodgy feet, flat feet, boxy feet etc would need a bit of cut to keep them sound.

Hard ground is also easier to slip on no matter the grass cover or studs because there simply isn't any grip. So again more chance of a soft tissue injury from slipping.

The rutted ground is also a no go.

We pulled a few horses out of Perth races last week that want good ground but by day 3 no amount of watering was going to make it anything other than quick good ground. The more horses that had galloped on it, the more holes had been put it in, the better the sun and the brisk breeze was getting in and drying out the ground. Whilst ground staff sort hurdles, fences and some take offs and landings between each race the full track doesn't get stomped down and reset until after that days racing. So if the same were to happen at an xc the first dozen horses or so would get the best of the ground it would rapidly dry out and become firmer and faster between each horse. By the end of the day the last horse will be running on rattling ground.

 

[LEC]

Conditioning to prepare for hard ground is one thing. No one can really prepare for for the actual competition though can they? Do you regularly school round an entire course of xc jumps on hard ground at competition speed? No. So you can't realistically prefer fully for it.

The horses breed and conformation will also come into play. A big heavy set, cob type will hit the ground harder and would almost certainly appreciate a softer surface. A middle weight horse (most general horses fit into this category) won't hit the ground as hard as a cob type but will still need a slightly softer surface to take up the impact on the joints, tendons and ligaments. A lighter framed, tb type horse can usually skip across the ground better though some are well known to be bog lovers. Each horse is different.

Conformation plays a huge part too. Long pastern and cannon bones are not great on a firmer surface. Because there is no give in the ground they are more likely to become jarred up but more than that they have a higher risk of injuring a tendon or ligament because feet can't sink into the ground to absorb the impact thus the bones and joints flex more which in turn over stretches the soft tissue.

Feet also play a huge part. You horse needs good feet to cope with the ground. A horse with slightly dodgy feet, flat feet, boxy feet etc would need a bit of cut to keep them sound.

Hard ground is also easier to slip on no matter the grass cover or studs because there simply isn't any grip. So again more chance of a soft tissue injury from slipping.

The rutted ground is also a no go.

We pulled a few horses out of Perth races last week that want good ground but by day 3 no amount of watering was going to make it anything other than quick good ground. The more horses that had galloped on it, the more holes had been put it in, the better the sun and the brisk breeze was getting in and drying out the ground. Whilst ground staff sort hurdles, fences and some take offs and landings between each race the full track doesn't get stomped down and reset until after that days racing. So if the same were to happen at an xc the first dozen horses or so would get the best of the ground it would rapidly dry out and become firmer and faster between each horse. By the end of the day the last horse will be running on rattling ground.

In eventing we have aerators and spikes which are not used in racing so doesn’t make any difference how early/late you go. In fact often if you go later the ground is better as been broken up by earlier horses.

 

[LEC]

A very experienced trainer once said to me about eventing "if you don't run on the hard, and you don't run in the mud, then in the UK you're never going to run at all". I thought she had a point, and I ran whatever, but I wouldn't have done if the ground had also been rutted.
.

I agree and tend to do it more when they are young because the fences are lower/easier so less pressure on speed/jump height. I have a friend who has ridden at 5* who is Uber cautious about conditions and will WD if anything less than ideal but now has a horse who hates anything except perfect going. She can hardly keep going to 3/4/5* events and paying all that money to hope for the best.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

In eventing we have aerators and spikes which are not used in racing so doesn’t make any difference how early/late you go. In fact often if you go later the ground is better as been broken up by earlier horses.

We do also use aerators and spikes in racing a few days before a fixture if needed.