Hunting accident(s)

[Herne]

The contrary opinion, of course, being that if you knowingly take an unsafe horse onto the hunting field and intentionally refuse follow the usual protocols for warning third parties, then, if someone else testifies that your horse has been known to kick*, you are likely to be considered to have deliberately and negligently endangered others by so doing.

People who go hunting could be held to have accepted the risk of being kicked, including the risk of riding near red ribbons, thus giving the owner the defense in tort of "Volenti Non Fit Injuria" (the willing canot be injured) which basically translates into "You saw the risk. You took it anyway. Tough luck".

However, if you have nefariously and deliberately failed to advertise that risk, then you would not be able to claim that defense.

Decisions, decisions...

*and you can pretty much bet your shirt that, if your horse has kicked one person and then kicks another, the first person will testify on behalf of the second.

 

[Alec Swan]

Herne,

I don't know why I'm laughing as I am, because, of course, you also have a valid point!!

As you say, decisions, and even were a legal mind involved, then they'd want paying for an opinion, and one which all so well, may not be as one with a judge!

Alec.

 

[VoR]

Herne,

and even were a legal mind involved, then they'd want paying for an opinion, and one which all so well, may not be as one with a judge!

Alec.

Unless you have a qualified solicitor in the family, that makes it a bit cheaper Alec!!

 

[Orangehorse]

My NFU insurance lady is married to a barrister and she says that the NFU vigorously defends any claim of this sort. The NFU's stance is that a red/green ribbon is a WARNING and therefore other riders should take notice. It is not an admission of guilt.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Horses kick each other. In the field and under saddle.

If my guys kick in company they get a telling off BUT they have ribbons in their tails jsut as a precaution.

Eowyn went to 4 rideouts this year and only kicked out at the last one, but I spent the day yelling at people whose horses heads were over her butt and nearly at my back that she was in season and may kick, so the person who horse got lamped (well nearly) IMO deserved it as they were told NOT TO and she had a ribbon.

I wouldnt give out any money, you dont know if the horse hurt itself in the field at home afterwards and shes trying to get you to pay for it!!

 

[Lizzie66]

If as you say she hunts regularly and is a former hunt secretary she will know the risks involved in hunting, hopefully she is just trying to contact you to apologise for over-reacting, especially if her horse is OK.

Regarding the colour tape discuss it with your hunt secretary and let them advise you to what they think is best, and make sure it's head to hound when near them. Kicking a hound is not easily forgiven.

 

[maggiesmum]

Wasn't there something similar last year about wearing high viz that mentions young or inexperienced horses and/or riders and it being considered admitting that you were an accident waiting to happen?
Didn't the insurance companies make some kind of statement that it was cobblers and that it wasn't an admission of guilt? Or have I just made all that up??

The problem with law is that its all about interpretation but you go hunting you know the risks, I rode a horse for 2 seasons with a red ribbon as he'd kicked out once (before I got him) he never so much as lifted a foot in those 2 seasons but I made sure to warn people that got too close and stay well away from anyone who looked 'dangerous'

I think you should be putting a red ribbon in as he's already kicked out, I found it easier to put tape around the dock although I did put something user the bit where it touches the skin. Get out there and enjoy yourself.

 

[Missadelaide]

Thanks for all the advice.

Well, the woman has contacted me to say that the horse has been on box rest and has had x-rays and she said that the horse had been out eventing with her daughter all season, which is odd as she told me she had only just bought it when I spoke to her on the day of the hunt.

I think I will just write back to say that having spoken to the huntmaster I have been advised that he suggests I should not be paying for this as it takes two to tango. She has accused me of being careless by allowing my horse to kick - how she gets that I do not know, since when do any of us have any control over whether our horses do kick or not!

 

[jenbleep]

She has accused me of being careless by allowing my horse to kick - how she gets that I do not know, since when do any of us have any control over whether our horses do kick or not!

Doh, what a stupid comment!

This is an intertesting thread, as I've only been out the once with a green ribbon but may change to red as C doesn't like people coming up too close behind her in the faster gaits - walk she is fine, and horses can push past her when standing no problem, she just gets a bit excited in trot, canter etc. Flattens her ears and humps a bit.

I hope this hasn't put you off hunting!

 

[AmyMay]

Thanks for all the advice.

Well, the woman has contacted me to say that the horse has been on box rest and has had x-rays and she said that the horse had been out eventing with her daughter all season, which is odd as she told me she had only just bought it when I spoke to her on the day of the hunt.

I think I will just write back to say that having spoken to the huntmaster I have been advised that he suggests I should not be paying for this as it takes two to tango. She has accused me of being careless by allowing my horse to kick - how she gets that I do not know, since when do any of us have any control over whether our horses do kick or not!

I would actually be inclined not to respond to her.

 

[TheresaW]

Slightly different, but me and a friend went out on a fun ride yesterday escorted by the hunt. It was great fun!

My Mac got kicked, he was in front of me with my friend on him. It was just one of those things. The lady on the horse that kicked him was mortified as she said her horse had never kicked before. I think he was just totally over excited. Luckily Mac wasn't hurt, but even if he had have been, it was the risk we took taking him out.

 

[Christmas Crumpet]

Do not forget, by the way, that we are all supposed to be members of the Countryside Alliance if we go hunting - being a member covers us third party for incidents that might occur during the day i.e. kicking another horse, damaging a car etc. Very sensible to be a member as this situation proves. I think we are covered for quite a large amount in case of an incident occurring.

Personally, I would do a bit of digging about this woman and said horse. If she starts hassling you etc, ask to speak to the vet and find out how much money she supposedly owes them for this incident and if she is actually telling the truth. You don't know her from Adam so how do you know if you can trust her? If she's telling the truth, she will have nothing to hide and will gladly let you talk to the vets.

With regards the red/green ribbon question... if I were you and was going to go again, I would wear a red ribbon. It will be common knowledge by now that your horse kicked another horse and if it were to happen again, and you weren't wearing a ribbon then things could get very nasty. Far better to have a ribbon on warning people that your horse MIGHT kick so they will try and avoid using your horse's bum as a brake. My line of thinking is that if I see a horse with a red ribbon, I have been warned that it MIGHT kick out so will try and avoid it. If I crash into said horse's bottom and it kicks out, it is MY fault for crashing into it because I was warned that it may well kick out. If someone is out hunting on a known kicker and is riding right in the middle of the field then I would probably say something because kickers should be kept at the back or out of the way. We have all been taught to turn our horses heads towards huntsmen and hounds to avoid kicking them as they go past. If you are riding a horse that kicks or might kick, you do have a responsibility to try and avoid trouble.

I think there would be far more fuss if you were to take said horse out hunting again and not wear a ribbon - the horse may never kick again but you don't know that for sure and far better to warn people that it might. If you even have the slightest inkling that your horse might do something that you can warn others about, then for gods sake warn them - if their horse were to get a broken leg from being kicked by your horse that had already kicked another horse but wasn't wearing a ribbon in case it was a one off then the person who's horse had broken its leg would be very angry!!!

Let us know the outcome though - hope it goes in your favour. It will be interesting to see if woman is trying to pull a fast one or not.