Hunting is in a spot of bother

[Fred66]

Some of the posts here are reminding me to stay away from this thread. I will just say before I go that they were on a FOOTPATH and if those riders can not control their horses well enough to avoid hitting a walker in a field they should not be out hunting.

Again have you got the gps coordinates? If not how do you know they were on a footpath?

(Again slightly irrelevant IF he was deliberately hit as obviously this is wrong whether he was trespassing or not)

 

[Tiddlypom]

Was this on Friday or Saturday? A friend and I were walking there on Friday afternoon and we commented on the strong smell of fox and wondered if hounds were out. The ground was awful so I'm quite surprised farmers welcomed them on their land.

The meet could have been Fri, though I was presuming Sat. The sabs group FB page has been up for 1 day and refers to the incident as happening 'yesterday'.

The ground is very wet, isnt it. Farmers must be very long suffering to put up with all the damage to their land.

 

[Fred66]

The ground is very wet, isnt it. Farmers must be very long suffering to put up with all the damage to their land.

Sorry in what way are they long suffering? That would imply putting up with it reluctantly, unless they are tenants and forced into it then the farmers generally welcome the hunts that they allow on their land.

Many thanks to all the farmers who continue to allow the hunts across their land.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Sorry in what way are they long suffering? That would imply putting up with it reluctantly, unless they are tenants and forced into it then the farmers generally welcome the hunts that they allow on their land.

I can't speak for the N.Shrops, but in this not-far-away area the farmers are indeed mainly tenant farmers who are forced to allow the hunt on their land whether they like it or not - it's a condition of the tenancy.

When it's so very wet, you'd hope that a hunt with a conscience would keep off the low lying and wet areas.

 

[MurphysMinder]

Sorry in what way are they long suffering? That would imply putting up with it reluctantly, unless they are tenants and forced into it then the farmers generally welcome the hunts that they allow on their land.

Many thanks to all the farmers who continue to allow the hunts across their land.

A lot of the farms in that area are tenanted, although I have no idea if they welcome the hunt or just have to put up with it

 

[Sandstone1]

Again have you got the gps coordinates? If not how do you know they were on a footpath?

(Again slightly irrelevant IF he was deliberately hit as obviously this is wrong whether he was trespassing or not)

Well if you watch the video there is a map showing its a footpath.. You probably will not believe it though. Even if they were not on a footpath it does not give the riders the right to deliberately to run someone down and yes it does look deliberate to me.

 

[Fred66]

Well if you watch the video there is a map showing its a footpath.. You probably will not believe it though. Even if they were not on a footpath it does not give the riders the right to deliberately to run someone down and yes it does look deliberate to me.

There is a video of a map which does have a footpath on it but the map was put in afterwards and there was no indication of a trodden path in the video

 

[Tiddlypom]

Some stills from the video, including a map giving the location - which assuming the sab commentary from before the incident was correct, was indeed on a footpath crossing the field.

Those early riders are clearly and deliberately riding to intimidate.

 

[Tiddlypom]

And this is the rider who actually ended up knocking the sab down.

 

[Miss_Millie]

Looked rather deliberate going by the footage. No amount of intimidation warrants trying to run someone down with your horse. The man on the ground was assaulted and the rider put their horse in danger, I wonder if the horse is bruised/injured at all from the impact of hitting him.

Maybe he should not have been stood in the field, maybe he was on a public footpath and had every right to be, either way that group of riders knew exactly what they were doing and they were lucky that they didn't kill him tbh.

There really does seem to be a mob mentality when it comes to hunting - I have never witnessed any such behaviour from people who are regularly hacking on public land. I've been on many-a-ride through public fields where there are people walking, out with their dogs etc, children running about, and have never had any issues. It is because we are keenly aware that we are on shared space, and that taking out large animals like horses is a huge responsibility. We always err on the side of caution if anyone else is about, because it is everyone's right to be there and being on horseback does not make us in any way superior.

 

[Fred66]

The map is added to the video, he could have put a map of anywhere in the country in and none of us would be any the wiser ?

 

[Fred66]

Looked rather deliberate going by the footage. No amount of intimidation warrants trying to run someone down with your horse. The man on the ground was assaulted and the rider put their horse in danger, I wonder if the horse is bruised/injured at all from the impact of hitting him.

Maybe he should not have been stood in the field, maybe he was on a public footpath and had every right to be, either way that group of riders knew exactly what they were doing and they were lucky that they didn't kill him tbh.

There really does seem to be a mob mentality when it comes to hunting - I have never witnessed any such behaviour from people who are regularly hacking on public land. I've been on many-a-ride through public fields where there are people walking, out with their dogs etc, children running about, and have never had any issues. It is because we are keenly aware that we are on shared space, and that taking out large animals like horses is a huge responsibility. We always err on the side of caution if anyone else is about, because it is everyone's right to be there and being on horseback does not make us in any way superior.

If you are in public land then you have no expectations regarding private use, so you would need to ride accordingly.
If however every time you did this you were stalked, harassed, intimidated by threats and the most offensive language with your own or other children getting the same then see whether you still feel the same in respect of mob mentality.
Those that hunt are generally a friendly bunch who have no objection to monitors but sabs are something else.

 

[Miss_Millie]

There is a video of a map which does have a footpath on it but the map was put in afterwards and there was no indication of a trodden path in the video

I recently walked a 10 mile footpath, most of which was across fields, and the majority of the time there was no indication of a trodden path in the grass. It was a case of looking at the map and following the yellow signs on the stiles.

 

[Miss_Millie]

If you are in public land then you have no expectations regarding private use, so you would need to ride accordingly.
If however every time you did this you were stalked, harassed, intimidated by threats and the most offensive language with your own or other children getting the same then see whether you still feel the same.

I can only speak for myself I suppose, but I still wouldn't try to run someone down. I would respect my horse far too much for that apart from anything else. I don't condone any violence or aggression on either side, and slamming into someone with a horse at speed, is violent.

 

[Tiddlypom]

The map is added to the video, he could have put a map of anywhere in the country in and none of us would be any the wiser ?

Indeed he could, but the map location seems to tally with the running commentary on his location that he is giving before he got knocked down.

There is a video of a map which does have a footpath on it but the map was put in afterwards and there was no indication of a trodden path in the video

ETA I wouldn't necessarily expect to see a well trodden path on a footpath across a field hereabouts - this is out in the sticks, not in the Home Counties!

ETA2 Though on looking again, there is what could well be a trodden path just to the sab's right and running along in the direction that the footpath should be heading.

 

[Fred66]

I can only speak for myself I suppose, but I still wouldn't try to run someone down. I would respect my horse far too much for that apart from anything else. I don't condone any violence or aggression on either side, and slamming into someone with a horse at speed, is violent.

If you note in my posts I have not condoned this either.

 

[Fred66]

Indeed he could, but the map location seems to tally with the running commentary on his location that he is giving before he got knocked down.




ETA I wouldn't necessarily expect to see a well trodden path on a footpath across a field hereabouts - this is out in the sticks, not in the Home Counties!

ETA2 Though on looking again, there is what could well be a trodden path just to the sab's right and running along in the direction that the footpath should be heading.

Maybe not but if we assume their map is correct then the right of way indicated is a restricted byway not a footpath which leads me back to where is it ? A footpath if not well used might be hard to see but a restricted is generally pretty visible and there is no sign of them being anywhere near one.

 

[Koweyka]

Some of the posts here are reminding me to stay away from this thread. I will just say before I go that they were on a FOOTPATH and if those riders can not control their horses well enough to avoid hitting a walker in a field they should not be out hunting.

The comments on this thread re the video are mirroring those on the FB page really unsavoury and victim blaming… he was on a footpath and he was ridden down, it doesn’t matter if he was wearing black green or a yellow and purple dress. He was ridden down and he was lucky not to be killed.

And Palo, how are you supposed to gather evidence of illegal hunting if you aren’t there ? You can’t obtain it from an armchair. They were walking on a footpath where is your evidence the sabs had done anything wrong, just trotting out your narrative again, sab blaming all the time.

Fred666 I am pleased you actually admitted the sab was being intimidated, there is hope for you yet

 

[palo1]

The map is confusing - the sab is talking about the hunt crossing the footpath and he is nowhere near the hunt at that point so I assumed he was either on a different, unmarked footpath or just in the middle of the field! It doesn't in any way justify intimidation tactics from the riders but again the question of truth and legitimacy are brought into question by the sabs. I also think that this behaviour from those riders just plays into the sabs hands - it is clearly exactly what they want. The full picture is not actually available either - we can't see where the other sabs are or what they are doing; we only get one view of the incident though I cannot see a reasonable excuse for riding directly at a pedestrian. I hope the bloke injured is ok and I have seen an image of graze/scrape on his head but he certainly sounded fine at the time.

 

[palo1]

The comments on this thread re the video are mirroring those on the FB page really unsavoury and victim blaming… he was on a footpath and he was ridden down, it doesn’t matter if he was wearing black green or a yellow and purple dress. He was ridden down and he was lucky not to be killed.

And Palo, how are you supposed to gather evidence of illegal hunting if you aren’t there ? You can’t obtain it from an armchair. They were walking on a footpath where is your evidence the sabs had done anything wrong, just trotting out your narrative again, sab blaming all the time.

Fred666 I am pleased you actually admitted the sab was being intimidated, there is hope for you yet

You clearly have not read my posts on this incident.

 

[Koweyka]

I clearly have.

 

[Fred66]

And Palo, how are you supposed to gather evidence of illegal hunting if you aren’t there ? You can’t obtain it from an armchair. They were walking on a footpath where is your evidence the sabs had done anything wrong, just trotting out your narrative again, sab blaming all the time.

Where is your evidence that they were on a footpath? There has been none provided so far.

They were dressed and equipped and style themselves as saboteurs so there is little doubt that they were out there with every intent of breaking the law.

If whilst monitoring from public land you gather evidence of a crime then please present it, BUT it is not your/their role to gather evidence that is what we have police for. There is nothing to indicate that this hunt were breaking the law when the sabs set out to illegally stalk, harass and intimidate them.
Such a shame that there is no hope for you as the chances of you admitting that the sabs are creating the situation that results in this type of reaction are about as likely as me seeing a pig flying past my window.

 

[palo1]

And this is the rider who actually ended up knocking the sab down.

View attachment 86001

You can see 2 sabs filming in the middle ground and the rider in the foreground is trying to avoid the sab holding the camera. The horse, for whatever reason is not taking that instruction. There was no reason for that rider to be that close other than he didn't have clear sight of the man because of the riders in front but it was absolutely wrong of this group to get so close. The shouting in the clip is the sab's commentary - he isn't making much effort to get out of the way - he could step right though that would need quick thinking. He shouldn't need to have to take evasive action but I have no idea what has gone before or what is happening behind this sab or to the left; is someone preventing the horse from getting out of the way? It is REALLY unusual for a horse to run a person down tbh; they usually do whatever they can, regardless of rider instruction not to hit stationery objects!

 

[Koweyka]

Where is your evidence that they were on a footpath? There has been none provided so far.

They were dressed and equipped and style themselves as saboteurs so there is little doubt that they were out there with every intent of breaking the law.

If whilst monitoring from public land you gather evidence of a crime then please present it, BUT it is not your/their role to gather evidence that is what we have police for. There is nothing to indicate that this hunt were breaking the law when the sabs set out to illegally stalk, harass and intimidate them.
Such a shame that there is no hope for you as the chances of you admitting that the sabs are creating the situation that results in this type of reaction are about as likely as me seeing a pig flying past my window.

OMG the comedy post award goes too …

You are so blinkered that you actually think people head out and try and get trampled by a horse for what “sensationalism” are you completely bonkers? A genuine question, you truly believe that ?

This lad (who I know) was on a PUBLIC FOOTPATH to obtain evidence of illegal hunting, you can’t have it all ways but as a fox hunter you clearly believe you can.

Sabs creating this situation purlease, we aren’t going out with an uncontrollable pack of dogs, killing foxes and hares and cats, mauling sheep and killing peoples horses and sooner you and all you other fox killers accept that and move with the times and find a hobby that doesn’t involve killing then the world will be a better place, but I suspect my wait for a flying pig will be infinitely longer than yours.

 

[Miss_Millie]

It seems like every time a hunt misbehaves, the pro hunt peeps on here try to justify the behaviour or skew the facts to make it seem less bad than it is.

It is clear that the person deliberately cantered at the man and that they knocked him over. He has a concussion and will probably have to rest up for a couple of weeks. It doesn't matter if he should have been in the field or not, there was plenty of room for the rider to pass him and he chose to ride into him.

Can we stop making excuses for the ass that did this, it doesn't matter what 'side' you're on, he could have easily killed that man. What he did was beyond reckless.

 

[Tiddlypom]

It is wrong to blame the sab for not sidestepping to avoid the horses.

He may or may not have been on a public right of way, but he was in plain sight of the advance group of riders.

He 'should' have been much safer standing where he was, thus allowing the riders plenty of time to see and to avoid him - it's what I would have done in that situation.

The girl who seemed to be aiming directly for the sab but who did pull away at the last second probably unsighted the guy behind her who did knock the sab down.

 

[palo1]

It seems like every time a hunt misbehaves, the pro hunt peeps on here try to justify the behaviour or skew the facts to make it seem less bad than it is.

It is clear that the person deliberately cantered at the man and that they knocked him over. He has a concussion and will probably have to rest up for a couple of weeks. It doesn't matter if he should have been in the field or not, there was plenty of room for the rider to pass him and he chose to ride into him.

Can we stop making excuses for the ass that did this, it doesn't matter what 'side' you're on, he could have easily killed that man. What he did was beyond reckless.

I don't think the bloke deliberately cantered at the sab to hit him; he was behind a few other riders who were, it would seem, intending to intimidate that sab. I think the sab being there in that exact spot was a shock to the horse and the rider who is trying to take last minute evasive action. There is no excuse for intimidation or riding at pedestrians, no matter how irritating or off track they are.

 

[Fred66]

It seems like every time a hunt misbehaves, the pro hunt peeps on here try to justify the behaviour or skew the facts to make it seem less bad than it is.

It is clear that the person deliberately cantered at the man and that they knocked him over. He has a concussion and will probably have to rest up for a couple of weeks. It doesn't matter if he should have been in the field or not, there was plenty of room for the rider to pass him and he chose to ride into him.

Can we stop making excuses for the ass that did this, it doesn't matter what 'side' you're on, he could have easily killed that man. What he did was beyond reckless.

The man who did this appears totally unsighted and does appear to try and miss him as soon as he gets sight, unfortunately he didn’t manage to.
The riders in front of him do appear to be trying to scare the sab but as they had full view they peeled off so as to not actually hit him. Not the most sensible of things to do and does appear to be fraught with risk but I think it unlikely that they intended to do more than scare.

 

[palo1]

It is wrong to blame the sab for not sidestepping to avoid the horses.

He may or may not have been on a public right of way, but he was in plain sight of the advance group of riders.

He 'should' have been much safer standing where he was, thus allowing the riders plenty of time to see and to avoid him - it's what I would have done in that situation.

The girl who seemed to be aiming directly for the sab but who did pull away at the last second probably unsighted the guy behind her who did knock the sab down.

I wasn't blaming the sab actually. I think the horse and the rider were shocked to see him there but the sab sees the riders coming towards him, comments on that several times, has room to move but doesn't and then is hit. It must have been pretty grim for him but he was more focussed on commenting on what was happening (possibly egging them on even so he could do exactly what has been done ) than trying to stop what was going on and what he told the camera was going to happen. I have no idea why you would put yourself in that situation, particularly where there was not an immediate animal welfare issue which sabs say is their priority. Pedestrians have the right of way so those riders should have been nowhere near him. Neither party looks remotely sensible to me.

 

[Koweyka]

And you wonder why Sabs and Monitors are in the fields.

I hope all you pro hunt have the guts to watch this fox dying, I bet you don’t, how are you going to blame the Sabs for this, trail hunting designed to replicate fox hunting, what a crock. It’s so you can carry on killing wildlife in the worst way possible, trail hunting must be banned. Anyone associated it, hang your heads in shame …. Though I will be waiting for another flying pig before that happens deflect deflect deflect. Disgusting.

https://fb.watch/aBgRD6MJ8T/