Hunting Poll

[Scratchline]

you might as well but there is NO ****ing difference the FOX DIES

There is obviously a huge difference. That aside this poll was born out of a debate not about fox hunting in general but about fox hunting as was before the ban with hounds.

As an anti but a shooter my vote would be against or for dependant on the type of hunting if the poll were made clear.

 

[Scratchline]

Highjack the thread you mean! *sighs* there is always one, you saw the word hunting and your eyes must have bulged out of your head. Fill ya boots, you repeat yourself anyway simples

The poll my dear was based on a debate that I, ME was having with the two poll starters about the now banned type of hunting with packs of hounds so I have every right to be involved in the discussion!

 

[Scratchline]

Sorry Scratchline seems quite straightforward to me, I am against hunting - easy. However, I dont think you do the "antis" any favours as you seem to be rather antagonistic to everyone, although from your posts I take it that you disagree with hunting (as in killing an animal with dogs).

Yes with dogs. Me, antagonistic? lol lol Just my manner of posting which some choose to take to heart on a forum.

 

[Scratchline]

Do you think she is stupid or something? I am sire she doesn't just vote randomly. She's against hunting so she voted for that option.

No Giles, she isnt. Again the debate which led to these polls was the now illegal form of hunting. The polls however just say hunting. You are very aware of the difference. As altough I hunt foxes legally, as an anti hunting with hounds person, I would still be forced to vote FOR hunting making the poll a nonsense.

See the problem now?

 

[Scratchline]

I am more into stag hunting myself.

Stag hunting is the only current system which operates across a wide area and works on the herd as a whole. Leaving management up to individual landowners risks damaging the herd because there is no central regulation over the number killed/gender balance etc.

A key feature of stag hunting is that it enjoys the co operation of a large number of landowners. They leave deer management to the hunt. Even though the hunt kill a relatively small number this is a very important factor as it stops landowners taking deer management into their own hands.

For example landowner A kills 10% - Landowner B kills 10% landowner C kills 10% = 30% of the herd killed.

Deer management is fundamentally different because the animals are not confined to small areas like foxes but exist in herds that move from farm to farm.

It is by no means obvious how to initiate a centralised stalking system and stop landowners taking too many or the wrong deer out. If hunting stopped and no such system were put into its place that the herd would suffer considerable depletion/weakening.

Exmoor and the Quantocks has just about the only truly wild herd of red deer in England (bar the lakes and possibly the new forest) - the lakes consist of massive open spaces like scotland where stalking can work better and the New forest also has a system where landowners co operate.

So no, you have no valid reason why farmers shouldnt be payed to trap and humanely kill troublesome foxes on their land. No need for hunting whatsoever.

 

[Scratchline]

Scratchline, a hunting poll on HHO. I think it's pretty obvious what sort of hunting they mean..!! You seem to want to pick arguments constantly.

Does it mean pre ban hunting or hunting as now? Shooting? I am not argueing for the sake of it. The polls were born out of a debate about the now banned hunting techniques that we were having thankyou.

 

[Sarah Sum1]

The poll my dear was based on a debate that I, ME was having with the two poll starters about the now banned type of hunting with packs of hounds so I have every right to be involved in the discussion!

Hmmm yes well i am clearly not your dear, so trying to patronize me won't get you anywhere. Do me a favour and do not reply to my posts, you are an incredibly annoying person.

 

[Scratchline]

So you are pro lion hunting, bears, elephants etc etc etc

Dont talk rubbish Giles. Many of us hunt but do so as humanely as possible. Therefore we find hunting with hounds pre ban abhorant!!

Give me one, just one valid reason why farmers cannot be payed to have problem foxes on their land humanely trapped and destroyed?[/QUOTE

do you or have you ever killed or chased and animal with a dog of any type ?
have you ever killed any animal ? by what ever means ?
have you ever killed another human being as humanely as possible ?

Yes. Yes. No.

 

[Scratchline]

Hmmm yes well i am clearly not your dear, so trying to patronize me won't get you anywhere. Do me a favour and do not reply to my posts, you are an incredibly annoying person.

I will when you stop posting to me love.

 

[Sarah Sum1]

It will be my greatsest pleasure my sweet,

 

[Scratchline]

It will be my greatsest pleasure my sweet,

lol lol nice one

 

[Xlthlx]

No Giles, she isnt. Again the debate which led to these polls was the now illegal form of hunting. The polls however just say hunting. You are very aware of the difference. As altough I hunt foxes legally, as an anti hunting with hounds person, I would still be forced to vote FOR hunting making the poll a nonsense.

See the problem now?

That';s an americanism. People don't call shooting hunting over here

 

[Xlthlx]

so you didnt kill the human humaely ? and you complain about hunting with hounds but not lurchers and you have killed animals , so where do you actully stand , because im confused about your attitude , personally i think you would argue for the sake of it and as you have said "Yes I have shot foxes and taken many more with lurchers lamping. Being ex Irish Guards "

so its just you and your attitude to "hunting" and not killing ,and just as bad as us

SO ALL YOU ANTIS , SCRATCHLINE HAS KILLED FOXES WITH DOGS (BUT NOT HOUNDS AS THAT IS CRUEL)
you are a serious ********

I don't kill anything with anything. Well except for the odd very unlucky pheasant

 

[Scratchline]

so you didnt kill the human humaely ? and you complain about hunting with hounds but not lurchers and you have killed animals , so where do you actully stand , because im confused about your attitude , personally i think you would argue for the sake of it and as you have said "Yes I have shot foxes and taken many more with lurchers lamping. Being ex Irish Guards "

so its just you and your attitude to "hunting" and not killing ,and just as bad as us

SO ALL YOU ANTIS , SCRATCHLINE HAS KILLED FOXES WITH DOGS (BUT NOT HOUNDS AS THAT IS CRUEL)
you are a serious ********

Why do YOU need to understand anything about me?! And if you wish to now name call have the guts to post it you coward.

I dont agree with people ripping foxes apart for a jolly. I dont agree with dog fighting for exactly the same reason. However exited you may be before the event, however great the chase/battle is, the outcome is always the same. Pain, suffering and death for animals in the cruelest of ways.
I killed foxes over twenty years ago with lurchers when I was young and ignorant to animal suffering. I am a better person these days. If that is some sort of a problem I can assure you it is your problem and not mine!

 

[Scratchline]

That';s an americanism. People don't call shooting hunting over here

A complete cop out Giles. Legal hunting, ie flushing to guns and the foxes being shot (death by shooting),is hunting.

Now you didnt answer my very simple question. Why do we need packs of hounds to rip apart foxes when problem foxes could be humanely trapped and dispatched and the farmers payed for carrying out this method of control on their land? Thus ending the whole pro/anti debate/arguement.

Indeed, that is an open question to everybody.

 

[Xlthlx]

The government doesn't pay farmers to do this and even if one decided too it would be highly likely that another would take the payments away.

If foxes are killed in the spring you need terriers to get to the cubs.

If you did pay farmers to trap foxes they might get rid of them all.

 

[Xlthlx]

Also a lot of people think snaring is more cruel

 

[Spudlet]

Who would pay? The government, whoever it is next time round, is not going to have any money for this kind of scheme. It's a simple financial fact that public money is going to be very tight for the next few years.

 

[Katikins]

Wow, 6 pages since I last checked based on what I meant by hunting. OK the question is are you for or against:

Chasing a 'poor' 'defensless' foxy across the country on a bunch of horses with a pack of 'brutalised dogs' and taking 'joy' out of seeing said 'brutalised dogs' 'rip said fox to pieces'.

 

[Scratchline]

The government doesn't pay farmers to do this and even if one decided too it would be highly likely that another would take the payments away.

If foxes are killed in the spring you need terriers to get to the cubs.

If you did pay farmers to trap foxes they might get rid of them all.

It was offered in my poll as an alternative. Based on farmers being payed for killing the old and sick the hunts now illegal claimed they killed. No ifs, no buts as simle as that Giles. As always rather than accepting that and saying hey could we make this work the responses are like yours. Not looking for solution but looking for reasons to keep fox hunting alive. Gradually as I have stated I am realising this is just about people wanting to have hounds chase and kill foxes. I never believed that before and I am, pretty shocked tbh. It backs up the claims of many extreme antis that hunters are merely bloodthirsty and do not care about animal welfare and that saddens me greatly if true.

 

[Scratchline]

Who would pay? The government, whoever it is next time round, is not going to have any money for this kind of scheme. It's a simple financial fact that public money is going to be very tight for the next few years.

The poll is based on the farmers being payed spudlet and how people would vote if it was the case. Lets not get bogged down with the ins and outs and I am not being evasive its just not what the poll is about. I just wanted to see if welfare and humanity was the major concern or the desire to chase and kill foxes with hounds. As I have already posted I am shocked and saddened by what I have found so far. Its like, I'm a hunter, will always be, sod the fox, and sod the antis because they cannot stop me. That is not the same as fox hunting is the most humane method of fox control?

 

[Scratchline]

Wow, 6 pages since I last checked based on what I meant by hunting. OK the question is are you for or against:

Chasing a 'poor' 'defensless' foxy across the country on a bunch of horses with a pack of 'brutalised dogs' and taking 'joy' out of seeing said 'brutalised dogs' 'rip said fox to pieces'.

At last, thanks and summed up so nicely. Thankfully it is illegal now.

 

[irish_only]

I have voted for:
Hunting with hounds ( fox deer hare)
hunting with dogs (fox deer hare rabbit)
terrier work (rats rabbits)

 

[Katikins]

At last, thanks and summed up so nicely. Thankfully it is illegal now.

Have you heard of sarcasm?

 

[Spudlet]

The poll is based on the farmers being payed spudlet and how people would vote if it was the case. Lets not get bogged down with the ins and outs and I am not being evasive its just not what the poll is about. I just wanted to see if welfare and humanity was the major concern or the desire to chase and kill foxes with hounds. As I have already posted I am shocked and saddened by what I have found so far. Its like, I'm a hunter, will always be, sod the fox, and sod the antis because they cannot stop me. That is not the same as fox hunting is the most humane method of fox control?

But how can people vote for an option which would be totally unworkable? You call it the ins and outs, but I call it pretty fundamental as at the moment you have not been able to present a viable alternative to hunting.

Also, you have not specified what kind of traps you mean as some are not humane, but are also not deadly (for example, a blocked snare IMO is not humane as I believe it would cause the animal a lot of fear and stress to be trapped in this way).

I'm not voting for something if I don't know how it would work, and especially if I can't make an informed decision on the welfare aspects.

 

[rosie fronfelen]

Katikins, i think our polls have spoken a thousand words!! but of course, everyone voting for will be classed as liars or some such drivel-

 

[rosie fronfelen]

show me a farmer who has either the time or a straight eye with a gun!!!!!

 

[Scratchline]

Have you heard of sarcasm?

I posted some havent you realised yet?

 

[Scratchline]

But how can people vote for an option which would be totally unworkable? You call it the ins and outs, but I call it pretty fundamental as at the moment you have not been able to present a viable alternative to hunting.

Also, you have not specified what kind of traps you mean as some are not humane, but are also not deadly (for example, a blocked snare IMO is not humane as I believe it would cause the animal a lot of fear and stress to be trapped in this way).

I'm not voting for something if I don't know how it would work, and especially if I can't make an informed decision on the welfare aspects.

Just a wild stab in the dark guess lol would my humane trapping be using inhumane traps, thus actually making it inhumane trapping?

 

[Spudlet]

But your poll didn't say humane. I really try not to do assumptions.