Hunting question

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Thelwell_Girl

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Evening all!

Was just talking to my Dad about LUSH supporting the HSA, and it got me thinking...

Why do we have to bring back fox-hunting? Doesn't drag-hunting provide a similar experience, without the death of a fox? Now, I've never been hunting before, so don't know what its like, what are your views?

Please note, I am not against hunting necessarily (and definitely don't condone any violent actions against hunts or the hsa), I am genuinely curious of other people's opinions!

P.S. I'm way too chicken, and have never been hunting myself :o
 
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I hunt regularly and will continue to do so as long as I can,but in answer to your question I think there are very few draghunts. There certainly aren't any in Devon or Cornwall as far as I know, so it wouldn't be possible for many hunt supporters to change to a draghunt.

In addition to that there are many reasons for hunting that a draghunt obviously doesn't fulfil, and I'm not speaking for everyone but I'm sure most supporters hunt to keep the fox population down.
 
i have been hunting a few times and dragging lots and have to say (in my area anyway) the drag hunting i find much more enjoyable; more jumping, not so much standing etc. and in a way i suppose in an ..ideal world maybe? drag hunting would take over hunts? Although i am not at all against hunting and do still enjoy going to the ones in my area :D
sorry if this has gone off of your topic...
 
Thank you for your responses!

If you don't mind me and my numptiness asking, sonjafoers what other types of (legal?) hunting are there if not drag hunting?

x
 
I have done many types of hunting. I started off with the draghounds and bloodhounds as most of my family are anti hunting and i grew up believing all the lies about fox hunting. When i left home i desided to lurn about hunting myself and now i go out with the fox hounds. All hunting is diffrent. I would find drag hunting to scary now. Much to fast and i don't jump. If i couldn't go fox hunting anymore i would much rather go out with the bloodhounds it's much more sadate than draghunting.
Trail hunting is still leagle and this is what most fox hound packs do now. Kill the fox in advance then the hounds follow it's scent.
It is still leagle to use two hound to flush a fox or hare to a gun or bird of prey.
 
TG... another way that hunts get to continue under the ban, and legally, is to soak a sock or a rag in aniseed, or clove and lay a trail that way. Not all foxhounds will follow an artificial trail and will go 'rioting' (hunting something they shouldn't, usually rabbits).

I hunt with a foxhound pack, and wouldn't want to do any different. None of us (with my hunt) go out for massive jumps, or long gallops, but mostly for the social side. Yes we get some jumping and some galloping, but so much of our hunt country is moorland and forestry that there's only so much room!
 
I'll have a crack at trying to answer your question from the perspective of someone who mainly follows on foot and bike. I have had a few days mounted and followed a drag hunt on my bike.

Firstly quarry hunting has a valuable role to play in population management - foxes, deer, hares and mink if uncontrolled can be a huge pest - there isn't enough food to support them all and the weaker animals begin to search out an easy meal - be that livestock or crops. The majority of species that were hunted pre-ban have no top predator. Hunting re-introduced control with a method that was based firmly on natural selection. It is the weaker, sicker examples that are more likely to predate livestock. Hunting is the method most likely to remove these. You can trap or shoot the quarry, but how do you know which is the likely culprit?

Hunts also provide a vital service for casualty animals - the knacker round will pick up fallen stock at a cheaper rate than the commercial knackers. They can also be called on in an emergency if an animal is in desperate need of putting down no matter what the time of night. In addition the West Country packs operate the casualty deer service where a deer that has been a victim of a road accident may be tracked by the huntsman and 2 stag hounds and be treated or dispatched as required.

Hunting and country sports has also had huge benefits for the countryside. A study by the Durrell Institute at the University of Kent found that those involved in hunting or shooting planted more trees and maintained more miles of hedges than those not involved in country sports. This obviously has a knock on benefit for other species.

There are also enormous social benefits. People who go hunting often live in remote, rural communities with little else on offer. Hunting offers a whole package of social events to members and farmers.

Hunting also has a huge economic impact - hunting is big business in some areas - the West Country being a prime example - the money generated from visitors who spend money on hirelings, stabling, food, drink and accommodation is of vital benefit to the service industry on Exmoor. But even where tourism isn't a money spinner there are still huge sums spent on farriers, hunt kit, livery yards, saddlers etc, which brings me onto my next point.

I am convinced that drag hunting could never replace quarry hunts (whether we get repeal or carry on with exempt forms). For every mounted member with a quarry pack it is estimated that there are at least another 10 following on foot, bikes or in cars. I have tried to follow a drag pack on my bike, it was impossible. They whizzed through the coverts that take us 2 or 3 hours in 20 minutes. I biked hard on the road and only just caught them on the far side of the wood. Keeping up in the field would have been impossible. In contrast trail hunting under the ban is designed to replicate pre-ban venary as closely as possible. There are checks built in, which makes the pace slower than the mad gallop over big jumps that the local drag pack seem to enjoy. If there were no more quarry packs the car followers, bike followers and foot followers would in my opinion not transfer their support to drag packs.

Understanding the forms of exempt hunting can be a little bit like juggling mercury. I'll have a bash at summarising them - you can flush to guns using a full pack, you can hunt with no more than 2 hounds at any one time, you can hunt a trail, you can exercise hounds, you can flush to a bird of prey or you can hunt rats and rabbits. Not all of these exemptions are used by all packs and most will use a combination to replicate a pre-ban hunting day.

I'd like to conclude by congratulating you for keeping a mature and open mind. I would suggest you give it a go and see for yourself what I have described. It doesn't have to be on pony (though if I can survive a day mounted then anyone can) but come and see what we do.
 
I, in comparison, cannot survive a mounted day :D

Claire is absolutely spot on (as usual). Foxhunting isn't, as you will often hear, a bunch of toffs pegging it around the countryside in search of blood. It is a rung on a very complex social/economic ladder that holds rural communities and the environment together.

Sadly, over the last however many years, many of the other rungs have been fast dissapearing. Post offices shut down, traditional but quirky and definitely not approved by H&S or the politically correct events stopped. Changes to the Hill Farm Allowance has major socioeconomic implications...

We don't want foxhunting back because we want to kill animals. We're killing them anyway. We want foxhunting back to show that we will not conceed any more rungs on that ladder, to keep the delicate balance of enrivonmental management and to show we will not be bullied by bigoted parliaments.

Personally, I foxhunt because I love foxes. I love finding out the whiley witty things they come up with to get away. I love seeing them fit and healthy (I've spent enough time in london to see the deleterious affects that no selective predator has on foxes!!) I love going to see a bunch of really nice people.

I don't like killing animals for fun. I don't support it, I don't approve of it. What I do support is UK Agricultural, the Environment and the Rural Community (which, tellingly, our previous government simply referred to as "rural affairs".

I'd also support bringing back post offices for EXACTLY the same reason - and that I know, no animals are killed by them!
 
Wow! I love the responses I have got from this thread, I thought people would be jumping down my throat for just asking a question!

Claire, you're post was really interesting, as I have no experience of hunting I genuinely didn't know what its like. I would love to go one day, either when I'm not horse-less (and chicken!) or when I can ride my bike (summer resolution :D).

H_G - You make very valid points, thank you for being so clear! Even in London we've had post offices in busy areas being closed down, it's ridiculous. I love foxes too, and unashamedly admit to having bought a gorgeous fox teddy after a trip to the New Forest :)

Keep the responses coming, guys!

xx
 
Pleasure to help.

You could always try a foot pack. I forgot to mention that beagles and minkhound packs go out purely on foot. So no need to worry about a steed. I follow foxhounds and beagles during the winter and whip in for a pack of minkhounds over the summer. I also squeeze in a holiday with the staghounds in late summer.

I can't see how old you are in the piccies, but a lot of packs have a Young Hunt Supporters' Division who organise fun socials for the under 40s. We have all sorts planned this year including punting, pub grub evenings, polo lessons and a camping trip.

All packs get involved with parading at country shows, so it is worth keeping an eye out and as a quick way of finding your local pack. We are always happy to talk about out hounds and what we do (shutting us up again is usually the problem!).
 
Following on foot sounds fun! How do I find out about my nearest pack (I'm in London though!) ?

I love my fox teddy Todd :D Didn't see any New Forest foxies while I was riding, saw plenty of cute ponies though!
 
T_G I have only ever followed on foot, with the help of a car, and had a fab time.

The best days we have had were with blood hound packs and they were incredibly friendly and had a huge army of foot followers who were happy to help show you where to go and so on. They hunts are happy to have foot followers as they contribute to finances and help out with things like gate opening.

The advantage of blood hounds is that someone (the quarry) knows where the pack will be going so the chances of getting lost are minimised! They also have regular breaks for the poor old runner to get his breath back, have a drink and a pee!
 
A day with the minkhounds has been called a glorified pub crawl with hounds.

Not sure which side of London you are, but these are likely to be your nearest pack of minkhounds:

http://www.foxhunters.net/ksmh/ - Kent & Sussex Minkhounds
http://www.freewebs.com/easterncountiesmh/index.html - Eastern Counties - Get down into Essex & Hertfordshire

For beagles:

http://www.amhb.org.uk/ - Association will put you in touch with nearest pack
http://www.foxhunters.net/tsfhb/index.html - TFSHB - again gets into Hertfordshire, very friendly pack
http://www.bailyshuntingdirectory.com/directory/Eton_College_Beagles.htm - Eton College Beagles (open to non-students!)

Hope that is a starter for 10.

I love the New Forest used to stay and ride near Brockenhurst, haven't been for years though.
 
thelwell_girl said:
Poor runner! Must be fab exercise though :D
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I know, and sometimes they catch him too!

But the hounds just give him a good lick and a fuss!

The runner gets well looked after ;) and I think it would help your marathon training no end being pursued by 20 odd hounds!
 
combat_claire said:
A day with the minkhounds has been called a glorified pub crawl with hounds.

Not sure which side of London you are, but these are likely to be your nearest pack of minkhounds:

http://www.foxhunters.net/ksmh/ - Kent & Sussex Minkhounds
http://www.freewebs.com/easterncountiesmh/index.html - Eastern Counties - Get down into Essex & Hertfordshire

For beagles:

http://www.amhb.org.uk/ - Association will put you in touch with nearest pack
http://www.foxhunters.net/tsfhb/index.html - TFSHB - again gets into Hertfordshire, very friendly pack
http://www.bailyshuntingdirectory.com/directory/Eton_College_Beagles.htm - Eton College Beagles (open to non-students!)

Hope that is a starter for 10.

I love the New Forest used to stay and ride near Brockenhurst, haven't been for years though.
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Oh yes i forgot mink hounds and beagles. I found it great fun out with the mink hounds everyone was so friendly and we had a lovely walk along the river. So i deff recomend going with a pack of mink hounds. :)
I missed my horse when i went out with the beagles as it was a good day in flat country and i had to run loads :p :D :D The second time was much better as we stood on a hill and watched the beagles work below us :D
 
combat_claire said:
A day with the minkhounds has been called a glorified pub crawl with hounds.

Not sure which side of London you are, but these are likely to be your nearest pack of minkhounds:

http://www.foxhunters.net/ksmh/ - Kent & Sussex Minkhounds
http://www.freewebs.com/easterncountiesmh/index.html - Eastern Counties - Get down into Essex & Hertfordshire

For beagles:

http://www.amhb.org.uk/ - Association will put you in touch with nearest pack
http://www.foxhunters.net/tsfhb/index.html - TFSHB - again gets into Hertfordshire, very friendly pack
http://www.bailyshuntingdirectory.com/directory/Eton_College_Beagles.htm - Eton College Beagles (open to non-students!)

Hope that is a starter for 10.

I love the New Forest used to stay and ride near Brockenhurst, haven't been for years though.
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Wow! Thanks Claire, will look into these. Maybe the Eton beagles has some menfolk to drool over :D ;) :cool:

Katt said:
I know, and sometimes they catch him too!

But the hounds just give him a good lick and a fuss!

The runner gets well looked after ;) and I think it would help your marathon training no end being pursued by 20 odd hounds!
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Aww :) I would be SO bad at running, I don't even like walking if I'm not sitting on a horse!
 
wouldnt get me on a hunting field with a pack of drag hounds, niether would i ever allow drag hounds on my land. hunting provides a service to the farmer and the countryside which drag hounds dont do. there are alot more jumping asif hunting isnt hard enough on your horse as it is aswell as alot more damage to land for no reason.
 
joe_carby said:
wouldnt get me on a hunting field with a pack of drag hounds, niether would i ever allow drag hounds on my land. hunting provides a service to the farmer and the countryside which drag hounds dont do. there are alot more jumping asif hunting isnt hard enough on your horse as it is aswell as alot more damage to land for no reason.
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Cheshire Farmers provide a fallen stock service so that is a drag pack that provides a service to farmers ;)
 
zefragile said:
Cheshire Farmers provide a fallen stock service so that is a drag pack that provides a service to farmers ;)
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I'm shore the drag hounds i hunted with used to maintain the hedges and mend fencing on the land they hunted across. If they didn't they would have nothing to jump. ;) :p :D
 
It is the not knowing how the day will go..blank or a corker,it is watching hounds working,possibly the hounds you "walked" as puppies,watching the insolent fox and his many tricks to throw his scent off.It was never about galloping about and jumping for me,that was merely a means of getting up to hounds. Chasing about after a scented sock might please some of you, but it is utterly pointless to me ,have`nt been out since the ban..but I`ll be first out with the repeal. Oh,and that incredible feeling ,if your horse cocks her ears at Charlie slipping away..and her heart thudding against your boot in anticipation.
 
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i have this discussion all the tim foxes kill animals !!!! and many more reasons that im nt going to go into!!
 
also i have been brought up in the middle of the countryside where the hunt ends up in our garden most days and the pony goes wild in the field wanting to go wild with the hunt lol and have always been taught that hunting is good and shouldnt be banned
 
With the Minister's shake up of the Police, in that they will not have any time or resources to worry about hunting from now on, things are improving.

Any scum (sabs) with so called evidence presented at a Police Station will be greeted with a large yawn.

So stop worrying about the Hunting Act 2004 and go and enjoy yoursleves, forget about bans and carry on as before the ban!
 
Speak for yourself Ditchjumper. As an albeit amateur member of hunt staff and a follower with two other packs I am confident that we are doing our utmost to abide by the laws regarding exempt forms of hunting. Mind you in the light of the prosecution of Tony Wright that doesn't necessarily seem to be enough to keep LACS off our back.

In the light of three fresh prosecutions against the Fernie, Sinnington & Ullswater hunts then comments are at the very least unhelpful and at the worst could lead to further allegations.
 
Whoops that was taken the wrong way! Sorry CC. We always lay a trail and hunt within the law. Have to say I am not sure exactly what is on our "trail" these days but it stripped the gloss and colour off the car when we carried it out the window. I don't personally think things can ever be as before even if there was a repeal. May be better off as we are.
 
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