Hunting with a dog?

[Lou95]

Not very horsey, but thought I would ask as someone might know. I have a saluki and I know she would have a field day chasing some hares and rabbits! I know it sounds a little mean but they are bred to hunt gazelles! Does anyone know if this is still legal? She's not great with strange dogs so would probably get a land owners permission and just go with my parents and dogs. I would love to take my mastiff but she wouldn't hurt a fly but would love the day out! Would be lovely lovely lovely to bring my 14.2hh pony as well since he has never been to something like that and to keep up with my dogs! My dad used to hunt with ferrets and dogs and also done a lot of shooting when he was younger so is experienced. I have a ferret but she's too dopey to know what to do So does anyone know where this would be possible around Essex, Hertfordshire areas or any land owners who would allow this? Thanks!

 

[bonny]

In a word, no !

 

[burge]

If you stick to rats and rabbits perfectly legal to hunt as long as you have the landowners permission. Rats and rabbits are excempt from the hunting act. Hares are slightly different in that a 'shot' hare can be hunted (presumably so that injured hares can be quickly dispatched after wounding by guns) but the act does not state 'how shot' the hare has to be.

 

[cava14una]

Poor rats they do get a hard deal

 

[twiggy2]

it is not legal to hunt hare or deer at all and if you are seen out with 3 or more dogs whilst hunting you are likely to get reported and the RSPCA are pigs to deal with and a law unto themselves.

I know of no farmers who would allow an unknown pack of dogs of various breeds, a pony and unknown people to traipse across their land to play at hunting.

 

[Alec Swan]

When and if you're apprehended, which would be unlikely, you claim that the dog slipped its lead and you were doing your level best to catch it. To be prosecuted for Coursing, the authorities would need to show intent on your part.

Those of us who still Course hares, accept that by and large the Law is an ass and so we ignore it!

Alec.

 

[Dry Rot]

Some landowners would positively encourage you. Look for those who are partially bald and grey haired. I was actually invited on a deer hunt by such a one when it was still legal. The dogs were Scottish deer hounds and the quarry was red deer hinds. Surprisingly, I have a roll of 35mm still colour film somewhere as I was allowed to photograph it. It was a bit gory, frankly, and it probably deserved to be banned. I doubt whether the OP would get much coursing just wandering around looking for rabbits lying out. Either use a ferret (hunger is a great sauce) or a dog trained to point. I had a pointing Springer and flew a goshawk at rabbits, but pheasant hawking over pointers is more fun. (Don't listen to anything Alec says, he is a wicked wicked man). Oh, one last, do not give the impression you are enjoying your hunting. It is vermin control and it is illegal to enjoy it.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/37/section/1
Rabbits


Hunting wild mammals with dogs

A person commits an offence if he hunts a wild mammal with a dog, unless his hunting is exempt.

4The hunting of rabbits is exempt if it takes place on land—
(a)which belongs to the hunter, or

(b)which he has been given permission to use for the purpose by the occupier or, in the case of unoccupied land, by a person to whom it belongs.

 

[RunToEarth]

When and if you're apprehended, which would be unlikely, you claim that the dog slipped its lead and you were doing your level best to catch it. To be prosecuted for Coursing, the authorities would need to show intent on your part.

Those of us who still Course hares, accept that by and large the Law is an ass and so we ignore it!

Alec.

I'm not sure that is your most sensible confession on the forum Alec, but commend you for putting your name to it!

 

[Alec Swan]

I'm not sure that is your most sensible confession on the forum Alec, but commend you for putting your name to it!

I reckon that I'm fairly safe, working on the basis that both our local Plod, and the rspca, have the collective IQ of one of my sheep, but not the speed to match it!

I'm grateful for your concern, for all that!

Alec.

 

[Dry Rot]

I reckon that I'm fairly safe, working on the basis that both our local Plod, and the rspca, have the collective IQ of one of my sheep, but not the speed to match it!

I'm grateful for your concern, for all that!

Alec.

Good God! Is everything I read on HHO the truth! I think to be accepted as a legally binding confession, it has to be given under caution.

Shame on you, Alec. Not for the coursing, but for enjoying it! It's that part the authorities object to!

 

[TrasaM]

So then?? My dog ( GSP) took off after some grouse he startled today. They were in the long grass near the footpath. Private farm land with a public footpath going through it. He returned rather quickly as he in turn got startled by a pheasant flying up in front of him. I'm assuming I'd have been in trouble with mr Farmer had we been spotted.. Could I have claimed that being a GSP he was excused from trespassing because once his nose kicks in his ears stop working ?

 

[gunnergundog]

So then?? My dog ( GSP) took off after some grouse he startled today. They were in the long grass near the footpath. Private farm land with a public footpath going through it. He returned rather quickly as he in turn got startled by a pheasant flying up in front of him. I'm assuming I'd have been in trouble with mr Farmer had we been spotted.. Could I have claimed that being a GSP he was excused from trespassing because once his nose kicks in his ears stop working ?

Sorry, not wishing to cause offence, but a GSP that is startled by a pheasant flying up in front of him and therefore returns to its owner is not exactly a hunting machine....I think you could have claimed the 'no intent to hunt' defence.

Sadly, so many HPRs bred today are being bred for the pet market and therefore have the true hunt drive bred out of them. It makes me sad to see such dogs. Again, not wishing to cause offence to anyone but stating the facts as I see them over forty years of ownership.

 

[TrasaM]

Sorry, not wishing to cause offence, but a GSP that is startled by a pheasant flying up in front of him and therefore returns to its owner is not exactly a hunting machine....I think you could have claimed the 'no intent to hunt' defence.

Sadly, so many HPRs bred today are being bred for the pet market and therefore have the true hunt drive bred out of them. It makes me sad to see such dogs. Again, not wishing to cause offence to anyone but stating the facts as I see them over forty years of ownership.

He's a rescue from Cyprus and I'd hazard a guess that he'd only ever been shown to hunt blackbirds so chasing grouse was a whole new departure for him. So no offence taken. I think he's working bred as he's a bit of a chunky lad ..certainly not show bred. He has all the right instincts but for now he's still young and just getting his confidence back and I'm happy to let him exercise his hunting instincts in woodlands and hedgerows. Maybe we should avoid Mr Farmers grouse though

 

[Dry Rot]

Sorry, not wishing to cause offence, but a GSP that is startled by a pheasant flying up in front of him and therefore returns to its owner is not exactly a hunting machine....I think you could have claimed the 'no intent to hunt' defence.

Sadly, so many HPRs bred today are being bred for the pet market and therefore have the true hunt drive bred out of them. It makes me sad to see such dogs. Again, not wishing to cause offence to anyone but stating the facts as I see them over forty years of ownership.

Couldn't agree more. Adam Henson's dogs on Countryfile really get my hackles up! Good examples of that breed would be out there hunting for game, his wander aimlessly about totally devoid of hunting instinct. A poor sham of what the breed should be.

I never really trained dogs for others but liked the pedigree of this guy who I trained for a local farmer. The owner told me the dog went on point amongst the mud around his cattle feeders. It stayed on point while he filled the hay racks. When he went up to the dog, he found it had been pointing a woodcock sitting in a hoof print on the bare ground for at least 20 minutes. That's a large Stilson wrench he is carrying!

 

[bakewell]

Contrary to popular assumption you'd have to have a truly exceptional dog to get anywhere near a hare in it's home field. Rabbits on the other hand are easy enough if your dog has the taste for it. However, I've had salukis/ saluki longdogs and they are appalling at any sort of work or even a lure. I would go so far as to say the only thing they really excelled at was aloofness and the wind blowing their ears around ever so prettily.

There are coursing organisations that let you run unconventional breeds on a lure so might be worth seeking this option out. I've seen afghans and all sorts having a go. This would also get you in with the local community for contacts.
Also to bear in mind: salukis are so thin skinned they will get cut/ nicked/ cut their pads and you'll need to superglue them shut for minor stuff. Working dogs are often scarred dogs, a lot end up with broken toes too, (and if the dew claws aren't off that's never pretty) and some people don't like this in pets. Also most dogs chasing will nip/ bite another dog. Thrill of the chase. You need to be up on first aid/ being prepared to glue your dog back together. Oh and if your saluki doesn't recall well (hahahahaha!) then your chance of getting it back if it starts a chase in the total open would be slim to non.
Just my two cents but I'd sooner try to course with my own sock than a saluki nowadays.

 

[Irishdan]

Contrary to popular assumption you'd have to have a truly exceptional dog to get anywhere near a hare in it's home field. Rabbits on the other hand are easy enough if your dog has the taste for it. However, I've had salukis/ saluki longdogs and they are appalling at any sort of work or even a lure. I would go so far as to say the only thing they really excelled at was aloofness and the wind blowing their ears around ever so prettily.

There are coursing organisations that let you run unconventional breeds on a lure so might be worth seeking this option out. I've seen afghans and all sorts having a go. This would also get you in with the local community for contacts.
Also to bear in mind: salukis are so thin skinned they will get cut/ nicked/ cut their pads and you'll need to superglue them shut for minor stuff. Working dogs are often scarred dogs, a lot end up with broken toes too, (and if the dew claws aren't off that's never pretty) and some people don't like this in pets. Also most dogs chasing will nip/ bite another dog. Thrill of the chase. You need to be up on first aid/ being prepared to glue your dog back together. Oh and if your saluki doesn't recall well (hahahahaha!) then your chance of getting it back if it starts a chase in the total open would be slim to non.
Just my two cents but I'd sooner try to course with my own sock than a saluki nowadays.

Shame, your Salukis have obviously all been soft show types

 

[Dry Rot]

Shame, your Salukis have obviously all been soft show types

Some dogs get landed with the wrong owners

 

[twiggy2]

When and if you're apprehended, which would be unlikely, you claim that the dog slipped its lead and you were doing your level best to catch it. To be prosecuted for Coursing, the authorities would need to show intent on your part.

Those of us who still Course hares, accept that by and large the Law is an ass and so we ignore it!

Alec.

this I agree with to a point the problem is that the RSPCA have been known to remove dogs from the owner whilst they take their time trying to prove intent to course-I am very cautious when walking my lurcher she does of course hunt and there are times when quarry are put up but I don't take her out with the intention to hunt

 

[twiggy2]

Contrary to popular assumption you'd have to have a truly exceptional dog to get anywhere near a hare in it's home field. Rabbits on the other hand are easy enough if your dog has the taste for it. However, I've had salukis/ saluki longdogs and they are appalling at any sort of work or even a lure. I would go so far as to say the only thing they really excelled at was aloofness and the wind blowing their ears around ever so prettily.

There are coursing organisations that let you run unconventional breeds on a lure so might be worth seeking this option out. I've seen afghans and all sorts having a go. This would also get you in with the local community for contacts.
Also to bear in mind: salukis are so thin skinned they will get cut/ nicked/ cut their pads and you'll need to superglue them shut for minor stuff. Working dogs are often scarred dogs, a lot end up with broken toes too, (and if the dew claws aren't off that's never pretty) and some people don't like this in pets. Also most dogs chasing will nip/ bite another dog. Thrill of the chase. You need to be up on first aid/ being prepared to glue your dog back together. Oh and if your saluki doesn't recall well (hahahahaha!) then your chance of getting it back if it starts a chase in the total open would be slim to non.
Just my two cents but I'd sooner try to course with my own sock than a saluki nowadays.

most lurchers and long dogs 'should' find hare coursing easier than rabbit chasing-they don't have to catch them all it is the chase that is sought. my lurcher has caught more hare over the ears than rabbits as rabbits usually stay close to the burrow thereby not allowing for much is any chase before they are down a burrow, hare on the other hand keep going above ground and she has the chance to use her speed and brain (yes she has one), she is however heavy built than saluki types and is able to take and hold onto a hare at speed

 

[{97702}]

Just my two cents but I'd sooner try to course with my own sock than a saluki nowadays.

This made me laugh out loud

I have often wanted to try my greyhounds after rabbits, but sadly they show all the aptitude of a stuffed toy in finding any.....

 

[Clodagh]

My saluki x lurcher doesn't even chase rabbits any more, she finds them most unsporting. She justsits and watches, we call it the 'Rabbit Channel'. Still keen on hare and deer though, although luckily is old and slow now.

 

[Alec Swan]

Curiously, rabbits over the first 30 yards are actually faster than a hare, and most dogs learn that as bunny is rarely more than 30 yards from his underground haven, chasing him is a bit pointless. Puss (the hare) though, is a different matter!

I'm always a little confused though by those who reckon that they can call their dog off a hare, whilst a full tilt. I've never yet had one dog which I could stop once started. Better I've always found to stand still and await the dog's return, empty handed, or not.

Alec.

 

[Dry Rot]

Curiously, rabbits over the first 30 yards are actually faster than a hare, and most dogs learn that as bunny is rarely more than 30 yards from his underground haven, chasing him is a bit pointless. Puss (the hare) though, is a different matter!

I'm always a little confused though by those who reckon that they can call their dog off a hare, whilst a full tilt. I've never yet had one dog which I could stop once started. Better I've always found to stand still and await the dog's return, empty handed, or not.

Alec.

Alec, believe it or not it can be done! Not with long dogs perhaps, but with gundogs. Lots of work with the mechanical bunny, a tennis ball, or a rabbit pen is the answer.

I'd suggest a rabbit is a lot quicker on the turn, too, so small dogs are better. It is a bit like trying to run down a rabbit on an airfield runway with a motorbike.

Having said that, the best season I ever had shooting snipe was when I had a slipped disc and was on pain killers. I was so slow getting the gun up that by the time I pulled the trigger, the snipe had zigged back to where he'd zagged from!

 

[bakewell]

Some dogs get landed with the wrong owners

They were indeed totally inappropriate for anything I had in mind: I have staff/greyhound lurchers and breed working labs, including some that went on to be police search and rescue dogs.... So tbh yes the comment fits! I have only had them (saluki/ x) as rescue young dogs (3-4mnths), I've never gone out to acquire that cross, more of a ahh you have lurchers, take this or it dies.

I've had deerhounds as well and their prey drive was an odd one, well, as I wasn't hunting a pair to deer it would be! I suppose the same goes for salukis... the ground wasn't right, nor was the quarry.

 

[Alec Swan]

Alec, …….. Not with long dogs perhaps, but with gundogs. ……..

Obviously, the discussion concerns those dogs which are used for Coursing. With gundogs, stopping them in mid-flight is a prerequisite to a trained dog, I'd think. If a gun dog can't be stopped, then it's in riot and it's a liability. Coursing dogs on the other hand, once in the mode of a heat seeking missile, can rarely be deflected. A Coursing dog that can be stopped, probably doesn't have its heart in the job!

Snipe shooting? A sport for the young man, or perhaps for the infirm or the old. I've never really thought about it, but I think that perhaps you're right! We used to walk up snipe on the Welsh Borders, and mostly it was 'youth' which filled the bag. My employer at the time, with his youthful 'keepers and his equally youthful grandsons, were there to remind him that he too was once young, or so he assured us!

Alec.

 

[Alec Swan]

They were indeed totally inappropriate for anything I had in mind: I have staff/greyhound lurchers and breed working labs, including some that went on to be police search and rescue dogs.... So tbh yes the comment fits! I have only had them (saluki/ x) as rescue young dogs (3-4mnths), I've never gone out to acquire that cross, more of a ahh you have lurchers, take this or it dies.

I've had deerhounds as well and their prey drive was an odd one, well, as I wasn't hunting a pair to deer it would be! I suppose the same goes for salukis... the ground wasn't right, nor was the quarry.

An interesting reply. Salukis and their derivatives, tend to be distance dogs, and they benefit from the 100+ acre fields of North Norfolk, or perhaps Salisbury Plain. Salukis are not really at their best at poking about in ditches, or small meadows, and they tend to come in to their own after 600 yards, I've found.

Alec.

 

[Dry Rot]

I got a call from a friend grumbling that his pointer (not from me!) wasn't interested in game birds. I asked him what he'd do if he had a falcon with the same problem!

 

[bakewell]

An interesting reply. Salukis and their derivatives, tend to be distance dogs, and they benefit from the 100+ acre fields of North Norfolk, or perhaps Salisbury Plain. Salukis are not really at their best at poking about in ditches, or small meadows, and they tend to come in to their own after 600 yards, I've found.

Alec.

I also just didn't find them tough enough. The other dogs I don't know they're cut until I check them over etc. As you say, a wide open space would suit their talents much better.

 

[Clodagh]

My little bitch had stamina to die for and was a hare killing machine. She never realised she was broken until she pulled up. Watching her course was an absolute privilege and I loved it. She is paying for all those miles now, in her old age. I never called her once she was full tilt as she was deaf and blind to all but the quarry and my husband (the landowner) might have heard me!

 

[Fides]

I have a foxhound x grey who is a devil for hares. I managed to train him to recall mid chase with a vibrating collar aimed at deaf dogs - it took 4 years though!

Boyd

Freddie - saluki x grey. He catches seagulls

Freedom!

Caught you!

Flying