Hybrids...not mongrels

Because it isn't a breed, there is no breed standard.

And that certainly isn't the 'going rate' in my breed - you can get the progeny of a world champion for under £1000.
 
MissCandy said:
Ok, she's had one litter (so far) kept one for herself, given one away and sold the others at the 'going rate'. Not much different to your definition of an 'ethical breeder'.

Whether you agree or not, Puggles are 'her breed' so how do you know she isn't breeding to improve that breed?
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Because 'puggles' are not a breed.


It's been said before, but crossing a brachycephalic dog with a dog that has a huge hunting instinct is not only stupid but also cruel, IMO.
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This ^.



I really can't see that any responsible Beagle owner would allow a cross to a breed like a Pug.
 
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s4sugar said:
They are not a breed so she is not breeding to improve anything. Crossing two disparate breeds and adding a stupid label does not make a breed.

All she is doing is not improving the parents' breeds.


How did she work out the "going rate"? They are advertised from around £200 to around £1500 (which just proves that PT Barnum was correct)

Have you seen how many older puppies are being advertised -ones that didn't sell as babies?

Has she the facilities to take back any she breeds, at any age or time? They don't have a breed rescue to pick up the pieces.
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It's not a recognised breed by KC but that doesn't mean it never will be.

The 'going rate' for a pug x beagle. The ones advertised at £200 probably aren't pug x beagle. She isn't scamming anyone.

No I haven't seen how many older puppies are being advertised. Just Puggles or any breed of older puppy?

And yes, she does have the facilities to take back any dog she breeds and is willing to do so. She keeps in touch with every single person to whom she has sold a puppy.
 
Calcyle said:
Because 'puggles' are not a breed.




This ^.



I really can't see that any responsible Beagle owner would allow a cross to a breed like a Pug.
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So because Puggles aren't a recognised KC breed, she isn't ethical?

Just because some can't see how the cross would work, doesn't mean that it doesn't. As I've said, my friends dogs have no problems breathing, unlike Pugs which are a recognised KC breed. So which is worse, breeding pedigree dogs with known health problems or breeding a cross breed that doesn't?
 
CaveCanem said:
It doesn't, I suppose, it's more of a public service announcement - you can get a whole lot more, for a whole lot less :)
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In your opinion ;) isn't 'your breed' a German Shepherd (or similar) - I can't imagine anyone looking for a Puggle would consider a German Shepherd or vice versa.
 
You can get a beagle bitch from an Irish pound for 50 euros or off donedeal for less than £100 & mate it to a pet pug and the puppies are pug x beagle.

The cross was first done by one of the big USA Puppy millers and sold through pet shops. They are cute as puppies but the miller is on record as saying he made a mistake with the name as it gives away the ingredients of the mix.

You say she isn't scamming anyone.... but you have said they are a breed and if she told people this she has scammed them (ok so she has sold puppies to thick people)

You can buy a beagle or pug from a top kennel for less than the mutts.
 
MissCandy said:
So because Puggles aren't a recognised KC breed, she isn't ethical?

Just because some can't see how the cross would work, doesn't mean that it doesn't. As I've said, my friends dogs have no problems breathing, unlike Pugs which are a recognised KC breed. So which is worse, breeding pedigree dogs with known health problems or breeding a cross breed that doesn't?
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That was more in response to the remark about her improving her 'breed'.



I don't think what she is doing is entirely ethical, no. But I also don't think that breeding specific Pugs (as an example) who struggle to breathe is ethical either. Both are just as bad.

Breeding should be done to improve the breed, which to me doesn't mean following the breed standard to the detriment of the dogs health, which unfortunately seems to have happened in an awful lot of cases.
 
MissCandy said:
So because Puggles aren't a recognised KC breed, she isn't ethical?

Just because some can't see how the cross would work, doesn't mean that it doesn't. As I've said, my friends dogs have no problems breathing, unlike Pugs which are a recognised KC breed. So which is worse, breeding pedigree dogs with known health problems or breeding a cross breed that doesn't?
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They are not a breed - KC or otherwise. They are a cross and a cross between a dog that has been selected for generations to be a lap dog with a dog that has been selected to travel miles following it's nose.

Most well bred pugs breathe perfectly well. I have seen pugs do agility & have know them in their late teens. Then there are some that are less good and these are the ones often used by puppy farmers to con people.
 
s4sugar said:
You can get a beagle bitch from an Irish pound for 50 euros or off donedeal for less than £100 & mate it to a pet pug and the puppies are pug x beagle.

The cross was first done by one of the big USA Puppy millers and sold through pet shops. They are cute as puppies but the miller is on record as saying he made a mistake with the name as it gives away the ingredients of the mix.

You say she isn't scamming anyone.... but you have said they are a breed and if she told people this she has scammed them (ok so she has sold puppies to thick people)

You can buy a beagle or pug from a top kennel for less than the mutts.
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No, the puppies are quite clearly advertised as Puggles, I.e Pug x beagle (which she states).

I'm not suggesting that puppy farmers don't exist, or that some people aren't in it just for the money and cross any cheap pedigree they can get there hands on. I'm just not sure why you are so insistent that this is what my friend does when you don't know her or her dogs. I do, and I can assure you she is not a puppy farmer.


CaveCanem said:
You can get any number of nice cute pet dogs of any breed or any cross, with good characters for a lot, lot less than £1200.
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I'm sure you can but I'm not sure why that means she shouldn't sell her puppies at a price people are quite willing to pay.
 
So why didn't she breed beagles from her beagle bitch?

I suppose a good question is why does she have a beagle?
 
Think Urban Dictionary has been one of the only sites I've seen that got the descriptions spot on... http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=designer dogs. puggle.

I have a Staff x Lab- bred by 'breeders' who thought they would make big money out of selling Pitbull lookalikes in a dodgy part of London... ended up only being able to sell 2 of the litter and had to send the rest to a rescue centre. 2 of those pups were returned after being too much of a handful for the owners to manage. My boy is gorgeous, but an absolute nutcase. I don't understand why ANYONE in their right mind would breed these dogs purposely.
 
If she has only bred one litter MissC then you are giving a wrong impression of her with some of your comments. You say "my friend breeds puggles ... . I have to say they are active little dogs with no problems breathing" , " she does have the facilities to take back every dog" and "she keeps in touch with every single person". All this to me implies fairly large numbers of pups produced, yet if it is one litter, and she has kept one, then we are talking about maybe 5 pups at the moment. Also presuming they are still fairly young (guessing bitch mated at 2, next litter planned a year later) there is still plenty of time for health problems to develop.
I have just had a bittersweet card from someone who had a pup from me 15 years ago, and have just had him pts. That is what keeping in touch is all about, not just for a year or two.
As regard the price, my daughters Lancashire Heeler is officially a vulnerable breed, so can genuinely be described as rare yet she payed under £500 for him. And I would suggest anyone looking at a puggle could well consider a heeler, similar size and hunting instinct, but very happy to be a lap dog. :)
 
MissCandy said:
How very judgmental! As I'm pretty sure you don't know my friend I'm pretty certain you have absolutely no idea why she decided to breed her dog.

The cross is only pointless in your opinion. What is the point in any breed of dog intended to be a pet?

And yes, really! I have no idea how to link KC health tests for dogs, nor do I have any inclination to do so to satisfy your curiosity. So take your :rolleyes:somewhere else.
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She breeding for the money or she wouldn't charge such obscene prices-what is special about the cross? Oh yeah, they're a brachycephalic dog with a dog that has a huge hunting instinct-fabulous idea! :rolleyes: Satisfy my curiosity? No, because you can't.

MissCandy said:
So because Puggles aren't a recognised KC breed, she isn't ethical?

Just because some can't see how the cross would work, doesn't mean that it doesn't. As I've said, my friends dogs have no problems breathing, unlike Pugs which are a recognised KC breed. So which is worse, breeding pedigree dogs with known health problems or breeding a cross breed that doesn't?
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Who breeds pedigrees with health problems? Been reading the Daily Mail?

She's not ehtical to be breeding a poor cross as already mentioned re breathing issues and crossed with a hunting breed. It is simply not a good idea.
 
Misscandy how ever you try to dress it up she is breeding for the dosh which is unethical, defend her all you like but its as plain as day what she is doing.

MM She wouldnt want a LH as there is not enough money in it and they only have small litters, cant imagine anyone in the group selling her one unless she went to the few outside that are not health testing.
 
I didn't mean the "breeder" having a LH, more her prospective customers. I've got Pickle with me at the mo, forgot how nice it is to have a little pooch on your knee in the evening, and how fast the little ****** can run when he gets scent of a rabbit! :)
 
Phone sent too soon. My comment was in response to MissC saying she couldn't imagine anyone looking for a puggle would consider a GSD. I suggested a heeler as a more logical alternative, at half the price :)
 
MM I am having a blonde or senior moment or both:D

Must be loving having Pickle for a few days, I keep Pip on the long-line as the grass is so long and even with the bells its easy to lose her, she is such a madam and far more trouble than the Dobes:rolleyes::D
 
I don't want to be a snarky geneticist but scientifically speaking it absolutely IS a hybrid :p

Sure whoever wrote the ad doesn't know that mind you!
 
I don't see a problem with the £1200 price tag for the pug xs - some people are so stupid they deserve to have no money!
We saw a pug x beagle in Norfolk last month, it was definately the ugliest dog I have
ever seen -even uglier than the pug x lab on here a few weeks ago. All its teeth stuck out horizontally and it had a hideous parrot mouth, apart from that it looked like a thyroidally challenged beagle.
I like pugs in their pure form but don't think they make good crosses. Now most poodle crosses are pretty cute -mongrelly speaking.
 
so the breeder had health tests on her puggle bitch that she bred with what? another health tested puggle? so F2s?

so that would include (for the beagle side):
DNA testing scheme for neonatal cerebellar cortical degeneration (NCCD)
Multifocal Retinal Dysplasia

pug side:
Pug Dog Encephalitis
Hemivertebra,
hips,


and possibly
elbow,
patella
and eyes

good good ....
 
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