Hypoallergenic wet dog food suggestions and help with licky dog

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At the vet for vaccinations today and I mentioned he'd been scratching. I can't find any sign of fleas, and he's up to date with flea treatment. He's also been licking his paws.

I've had him at the vets before about his paws and was given a pack of wipes. He did seem to improve, and it's only recently that he's started licking again. I knew I had this appointment coming up.

He had a wee bit of a sensitive tummy when he was a pup, so i tried quite a few other brands/types of feed but he done best on Butchers Grain free so I've kept him on that ever since.

When he was licking his paws as an adult I did try him on Bella & Duke (pre made raw) and Rún (cold pressed food), but he wasn't keen on either and went a bit scabby. I went back to butchers grain free and his coat has been fine since.

At vets today I raised my concerns. She said that there isn't an infection but can see he's been at his paws with the brown saliva staining (she used a fancier word then dumbed it down for me!). She's given me medicated shampoo that he's to be bathed in 3x a week.

She looked in his ears to see if that's why he was scratching. She said they looked a little red but they could just be his over excitement. He loves going to the vet and acts like an untrained hyperactive moron every time. His excitement makes his eyes go like an albino rabbit's 🙈 I've now got drops to put in 2x a day.

He has some brown staining on his droopy spaniel lips and apparently that's a thing that spaniels can get that causes skin issues? So I've to wash his face with salt water and when it's thoroughly dry to apply ointment. We tried that tonight but turns out this spaniel never has a dry face! He either licks with his massive tongue when I'm towelling him dry or his droppy top lips fall down and soak his lower folds again. Obviously he needed a massive drink right after thr cream was applied

On top of this she wants him to go on hypoallergenic wet food for 2 months to rule out any food allergies. She suggested purina.

When I googled the butchers grain free came up as hypoallergenic. Am I already feeding him a hypoallergenic food? Should I still change his feed? I did tell vet he was on grain free butchers after trying others.

Any suggestions?

Also should I clip his feet? I've just left him to have hobbit toes. He does get groomed, baths, thoroughly dried etc. I thought hair would offer some protection when he's running through cover and just general spaniel activities.

Only £130 bill so far and he's got a follow up in two weeks. I'm waiting on 2 vet bills for the horse so if the feed suggestions didn't bankrupt me that would be appreciated 🥴

Disclaimer: that was a joke. He'll always get whatever he needs
 
Just to point out, hypoallergenic is not a protected term, so doesn’t mean what the means it to mean, if that makes sense. The reason they suggested Purina HA is because it is hydrolysed. Hydrolysed means the protein in it is broken down so small it can’t cause an allergic reaction. So the food you need is actually hydrolysed, which is often called hypoallergenic, but hypoallergenic in non vet brands doesn’t mean hydrolysed - if that makes sense! Other brands will call something hypoallergenic but it’s just grain free, or only has chicken or turkey or single protein.
For a food trial, because they are gruelling and have to be 6-8 weeks of being the absolute strict only food to pass their lips, I always recommend a hydrolysed diet and point out a couple that are, Purina HA and RC Anallergenic are hydrolysed so I would stick with those for the food trial
 
There is also a new food brand called Trovet. They are good and I have had some success with them with fussy eaters. The mostly do single source (strict) protein, so I recommend picking one of the proteins your pet has never eaten and pick that to trial (can’t be allergic to something they have never had)
 
It depends if you’re wanting single source protein (ie just one, named protein source), novel protein (usually something random like venison or insect protein that they’re unlikely to have come across before and so hopefully shouldn’t react to) or a hydrolysed diet (where the protein has been broken down in such a way that they shouldn’t react at all to it).

Hypoallergenic generally means they should have a set recipe, a named protein source & a limited no of ingredients (to lessen the no of potential allergens). Some hypoallergenic diets are grain free, some aren’t (I think the butchers you’re currently feeding probably is as most of their wet diets are)

If you’ve got a pretty good idea of what sets things off then hypoallergenic may be ok for you but if no idea then hydrolysed may be worth trying to see if it helps although you’ll then potentially have the fun of reintroducing things and seeing if they cause an issue (there are also a few different methods of allergy testing and things like immunotherapy vaccines but this may be unnecessary if you think it’s food based)

My creature has a suspected chicken intolerance that shows up as GI issues. We’ve never gone down the allergy testing route as avoiding chicken (& certain dental chews that also trigger the same reaction) seems to avoid the issue. Finding a non chicken, non grain free, reduced calorie dry diet for him has been interesting shall we say as it’s not a niche many manufacturers cater for (literally all the “light” / “diet” foods are chicken based & most novel protein diets assume you want grain free which as he ALREADY is very at risk of heart issues due to breed I don’t want to possibly raise that even a tiny bit). Your niche sounds like it should be easier to find as there’s quite a good choice of single / novel protein wet foods
 
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Did the vet offer cytopoint? Hay fever allergies ('atopy') are much more common than food allergies. With the elimation diet do it for 8 weeks really strictly (yes RC anallergenic or Purina HA) then rechallenge by feeding old diet, would expect a flare quickly if food allergic.
 
KEK said:
Did the vet offer cytopoint? Hay fever allergies ('atopy') are much more common than food allergies. With the elimation diet do it for 8 weeks really strictly (yes RC anallergenic or Purina HA) then rechallenge by feeding old diet, would expect a flare quickly if food allergic.
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8 weeks ago we changed our dogs food and we're convinced that was the start of her licking her paws. We've been to the vets 3 times about it, on our last visit she was given the cytopoint injection and wow what a difference! Back to normal within a day (we were told it takes 8 hours to start working). It lasts for 4 weeks so we're hoping, given we think we've removed the problem, that it'll break the habit. If not we'll do an elimination diet.

I've not really answered your question but so far, id recommend cytopoint.
 
Tawny has lip creases and she gets yeast infections in them and her ears. Her toes are not hairy so she’s not had an issue there. Her lip folds smell if left.
She cannot tolerate beet pulp, she has Millie’s wolfheart now and does well on all the recipes. Ears still get skank if she swims a lot.
 
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Cytopoint does also have some efficacy against food allergies, so strictly speaking it would be good to not have it in the dogs system when doing the rechallenge part of the food trial.
Over here atopy is sooo common, I would say approx 75% of dogs I see have allergies to some extent (bearing in mind ear infections are also caused by allergies).
 
My GSD is very similar. She's chicken, lamb and gluten intolerant which makes hypoallergenic food difficult. Her wet food is homemade mix with beef but her dry food is Naturo Turkey flavour which seems to have helped.
 
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I’m going to point out something else regarding food intolerances, to hopefully save people money. There is NO validated test for food allergies in pets, which is why vets don’t really offer it.
The only way to know if an animal has food intolerance is to feed a strict hydrolysed only diet for 6-8 weeks. If this doesn’t stop the symptoms (and the animal is off of all other treatments) then it’s not a food intolerance. If it does stop symptoms, then you add in a SINGLE protein alongside the hydrolysed food. If it causes a reaction, then it’s back to dealing with the reaction and starting again. You keep adding single proteins, one at a time, and the ones that don’t cause a reaction, are the ones they aren’t intolerant to.
Food trials are laborious because they have to be very strict and they take a long time.
I see many adverts for ‘food allergy testing’ and they are a waste of money. Vets may do testing through their labs as a last resort in complex cases, but really, if a strict diet trial hasn’t worked, then it isn’t food that’s the problem
 
TPO said:
At the vet for vaccinations today and I mentioned he'd been scratching. I can't find any sign of fleas, and he's up to date with flea treatment. He's also been licking his paws.

I've had him at the vets before about his paws and was given a pack of wipes. He did seem to improve, and it's only recently that he's started licking again. I knew I had this appointment coming up.

He had a wee bit of a sensitive tummy when he was a pup, so i tried quite a few other brands/types of feed but he done best on Butchers Grain free so I've kept him on that ever since.

When he was licking his paws as an adult I did try him on Bella & Duke (pre made raw) and Rún (cold pressed food), but he wasn't keen on either and went a bit scabby. I went back to butchers grain free and his coat has been fine since.

At vets today I raised my concerns. She said that there isn't an infection but can see he's been at his paws with the brown saliva staining (she used a fancier word then dumbed it down for me!). She's given me medicated shampoo that he's to be bathed in 3x a week.

She looked in his ears to see if that's why he was scratching. She said they looked a little red but they could just be his over excitement. He loves going to the vet and acts like an untrained hyperactive moron every time. His excitement makes his eyes go like an albino rabbit's 🙈 I've now got drops to put in 2x a day.

He has some brown staining on his droopy spaniel lips and apparently that's a thing that spaniels can get that causes skin issues? So I've to wash his face with salt water and when it's thoroughly dry to apply ointment. We tried that tonight but turns out this spaniel never has a dry face! He either licks with his massive tongue when I'm towelling him dry or his droppy top lips fall down and soak his lower folds again. Obviously he needed a massive drink right after thr cream was applied

On top of this she wants him to go on hypoallergenic wet food for 2 months to rule out any food allergies. She suggested purina.

When I googled the butchers grain free came up as hypoallergenic. Am I already feeding him a hypoallergenic food? Should I still change his feed? I did tell vet he was on grain free butchers after trying others.

Any suggestions?

Also should I clip his feet? I've just left him to have hobbit toes. He does get groomed, baths, thoroughly dried etc. I thought hair would offer some protection when he's running through cover and just general spaniel activities.

Only £130 bill so far and he's got a follow up in two weeks. I'm waiting on 2 vet bills for the horse so if the feed suggestions didn't bankrupt me that would be appreciated 🥴

Disclaimer: that was a joke. He'll always get whatever he needs
Click to expand...
ok...so hypoallergenic means limited ingredients which is what the butchers tripe mix is! so if he's doing well on that I would stick with it. Avoid cereals such as wheat and maize and avoid chicken too.

I wouldn't be bathing to often either although I do keep my spanners feet trimmed out as easier to inspect for thorns etc after working them.
 
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Redders said:
I’m going to point out something else regarding food intolerances, to hopefully save people money. There is NO validated test for food allergies in pets, which is why vets don’t really offer it.
The only way to know if an animal has food intolerance is to feed a strict hydrolysed only diet for 6-8 weeks. If this doesn’t stop the symptoms (and the animal is off of all other treatments) then it’s not a food intolerance. If it does stop symptoms, then you add in a SINGLE protein alongside the hydrolysed food. If it causes a reaction, then it’s back to dealing with the reaction and starting again. You keep adding single proteins, one at a time, and the ones that don’t cause a reaction, are the ones they aren’t intolerant to.
Food trials are laborious because they have to be very strict and they take a long time.
I see many adverts for ‘food allergy testing’ and they are a waste of money. Vets may do testing through their labs as a last resort in complex cases, but really, if a strict diet trial hasn’t worked, then it isn’t food that’s the problem
Click to expand...
Whilst i agree allergy testing is not always the answer it can give you a starting point.
Maz had allergy testing and it flagged up everything they can test for except eggs as bwing triggers for her issues, at that point we stopped trying different foods and just went to purina HA (dry) and she is still on it 8 or 9 yrs later.
 
I too, found the IgG & IgE allergy tests helpful. The first panel done did not include potato and I was fairly sure potato was one of the ingredients that provoked an allergic response so I asked for another panel to be done by a different lab who did test for potato and it confirmed a reaction.

Hydrolysed diets can provoke an allergic response in up to 50% of dogs.

My dog was allergic to chicken. He reacted to the Hills Z/D which the vet initially prescribed. It contains chicken liver hydrosylate.

He was okay with Purina HA.
 
Thanks. I've bought Purina HA and will see how it goes.

I managed to put my back out doing hooves yesterday so he won't be getting a bath anytime soon. He's at mums because I can't even bend down to do his ears and mouth.

I had a go at clipping his hobbit toes. Not a good look at all but they are slightly less hairy!
 
Again, there are no accurate tests for food allergies. That's why you have to do elim diet trial. Dogs tend to be allergic mostly to proteins, over here chicken is the most common then beef. Both Royal canin hypoallergenic and Hills Z/D contain chicken so not good choices which is why they aren't recommended anymore. RC anallergenic is made of duck feathers and Purina HA is vegetarian.
It is entirely possibly for them to be both food allergic and have atopy, which is one of the reasons it can be tricky to figure out. There are accurate tests for atopy, prick testing and blood test (heska). This is done through a dermatologist. Then you get desen injections made up to give over time (it's $$$$ and in my experience doesn't tend to work very well).
 
Redders said:
I’m going to point out something else regarding food intolerances, to hopefully save people money. There is NO validated test for food allergies in pets, which is why vets don’t really offer it.
The only way to know if an animal has food intolerance is to feed a strict hydrolysed only diet for 6-8 weeks. If this doesn’t stop the symptoms (and the animal is off of all other treatments) then it’s not a food intolerance. If it does stop symptoms, then you add in a SINGLE protein alongside the hydrolysed food. If it causes a reaction, then it’s back to dealing with the reaction and starting again. You keep adding single proteins, one at a time, and the ones that don’t cause a reaction, are the ones they aren’t intolerant to.
Food trials are laborious because they have to be very strict and they take a long time.
I see many adverts for ‘food allergy testing’ and they are a waste of money. Vets may do testing through their labs as a last resort in complex cases, but really, if a strict diet trial hasn’t worked, then it isn’t food that’s the problem
Click to expand...

KEK said:
Again, there are no accurate tests for food allergies.
Click to expand...
Interesting - is Jean Dodds' NutriScan not recommended then?
 
stangs said:
Interesting - is Jean Dodds' NutriScan not recommended then?
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No.

I’ll add a link to a 2019 study, and to a U.K. Advanced Practitioner in Dermatology who explains the findings

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Hair and saliva test fails to identify allergies in dogs - PubMed

Hair and saliva testing should not be used to diagnose allergies and is not a substitute for veterinary-directed allergy evaluation and diagnostics.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

leicesterskinvet.co.uk

Hair and Saliva Tests Fail to Identify Allergies in Dogs

Regarding hair and saliva allergy tests, the message is clear. Don’t believe the hype! Don’t waste your money.
leicesterskinvet.co.uk leicesterskinvet.co.uk
 
TPO said:
Thanks. I've bought Purina HA and will see how it goes.

I managed to put my back out doing hooves yesterday so he won't be getting a bath anytime soon. He's at mums because I can't even bend down to do his ears and mouth.

I had a go at clipping his hobbit toes. Not a good look at all but they are slightly less hairy!
Click to expand...
I’m sorry to hear about your back!
There is a range of products that are leave in foams or sprays, that can substitute a bath (I recommend them when the owner is unable to bathe) my preference is Ermidra spray or foam, but DuoxoPYO Mousse is also great
 
I've just been charged £42 for shampoo so it'll be getting used as sure as I'm able.

Vet did mention foam but said that the shampoo was the better option.
 
My first dog with allergies, her only symptom was itching. The vet recommended blood tests (ELISA). Based on those results I was able to find an OTC kibble that didn’t contain ingredients that she had tested positive to. She stopped itching.

My second dog with allergies, the one who had 2 panels done by different labs. The results were the same on each test for the same food. His allergies affected his gut not his skin.


This is interesting:

Based on these results, a positive reaction of a dog on these tests is not very helpful, but a negative result indicates that this antigen is tolerated well. We conclude that patch testing (and to a lesser degree serum testing) can be helpful in choosing ingredients for an elimination diet in a dog with suspected AFR*

*adverse food reactions.


pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Patch testing and allergen-specific serum IgE and IgG antibodies in the diagnosis of canine adverse food reactions - PubMed

Adverse food reaction (AFR) is a common differential diagnosis for pruritic dogs. The only way to diagnose AFR is an elimination diet of 6-8 weeks with a protein and a carbohydrate source not previously fed. In humans, patch testing has been shown to be a useful tool to diagnose food allergies...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
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I don't do allergy testing unless the owner is leaning towards wanting immunotherapy in which case I work with Nextmmune

Otherwise, we treat with bravecto and we start a feeding trial using the hydrolysed diet of choice for the client and then start ingredient challenges. If the symptoms don't improve we can safely assume it's an environmental allergen and start to discuss options for treatment. The timing of symptoms, pattern of itchy areas etc can help point you one way or the other also.

Cytopoint is life changing for many dogs, being itchy constantly be miserable
 
druid said:
I don't do allergy testing unless the owner is leaning towards wanting immunotherapy in which case I work with Nextmmune

Otherwise, we treat with bravecto and we start a feeding trial using the hydrolysed diet of choice for the client and then start ingredient challenges. If the symptoms don't improve we can safely assume it's an environmental allergen and start to discuss options for treatment. The timing of symptoms, pattern of itchy areas etc can help point you one way or the other also.

Cytopoint is life changing for many dogs, being itchy constantly be miserable
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Maz has environmental triggers (all mites, sheep's wool, dander etc ) as well as food, her stomach can be affected as can her skin and ears.
The food allergy/intolerance testing indicated that nothing apart from eggs was a good fit for her. The elimination diet can be so long winded for dogs like her with multiple allergies.
She still has a 2 or 3 times each year that her skin goes black and she moults heavily, the scratching her ears till she yelps never happens and she only poops like a hose if she has got hold of a dead sheep or salmon.
I understand the testing is not 100% but for maz it saved years of trial and error feeding (can you imagine how long it would have taken to find out the only thing she could eat was eggs?) Also the money saved in medication, treatments and different food, all the time she would have been suffering.
 
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