Hypothetical - what would be liability for dogs in this scenario

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wench

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This is hypothetical, and has never happened. The dog in question is dead so never will happen.

My dog, Merlin, liked a good scrap with other dogs, as he was convinced he was invincible and every other dog in the world was an insult to his existence. He was also a lurcher, who loved to chase and kill small furry animals; as such he was never off a lead in public. This asides, it is my own personal belief that all dogs should be out on a lead when in public.

So here's the scenario. I'm walking Merlin through the country, he is on his lead. Person coming in the opposite direction, dog off the lead, miles away from owner. Other dog sees Merlin, and comes up to play; of course owner thinks all dogs "want to play", and doesn't attempt to recall or control her dog. Merlin sees opportunity and has a good go at other dog.

Who has more responsibility for the liability of this? Merlin never had a muzzle on, which you could argue he should have, as we knew he liked fighting. (Although I would suspect even if he had a muzzle on he would have found some way of removing it!) But apart from a dislike to other dogs, he was well trained on a lead and would walk to heel without straining at the lead.

Opinions?
 
This happened to me last week with a pup, I was walking along a laneway, my dog was walking to heel, pup came ambling over off lead, I called a warning 'watch the dog, please', owner said nothing, dog came over anyway, jumped all over him, my dog had a grumble and I was told off for having an 'unfriendly' dog. I said, 'I did call out a warning to you'.

Mine is not be allowed into the position where he can lay teeth on another dog. He has been attacked several times completely unprovoked and yet still has never bitten.

I don't think it was unreasonable for him to grumble at a rude dog who was jumping all over him, particularly having been attacked in the past, if he was a biter, he would be muzzled.
 
We have had slightly the opposite with our current dog. His personality is totally opposite to Merlin.

When he was a puppy some idiotic child (and it was just a child) was out walking a Labrador. Labrador came and did something to our dog (not sure what as I wasn't there), and now current dog is terrified of larger dogs.

He also used to go to a dog training school where another owner thought it was acceptable to let their dog of the lead and it used to hump my dog.

How I wished both of these dogs had met Merlin. They (or their owners) wouldn't let them do it again!
 
You would be liable in this situation - you knew your dog was not safe with other dogs, and didnt take sufficient measures to correct that? Hoover is not small-dog safe, so he is always muzzled when we are out, he trots at my heels for 99% of the walk anyway and is always put back on the lead if we see anyone (or if I can't see around the next corner!) and I am now adept at holding his collar so he cannot squash the irritating little terriers that try and commit suicide by running up to him :p

I had a rescue greyhound that I had to re-home due to my marital breakdown, she was as good as gold when she was with me but I later found she killed two cats after she had been re-homed because the owners were not switched on enough. Another case of people not being dog savvy :(
 
Other owner their dog wasnt under control. I had a similar thing happen walking a rescue kennel dog. I even shouted to the owner to put his dog on a lead and he said no his dog was fine. He as very apologetic when his dog got bitten!
 
I would say you would be, although 50/50 tbh. I had a DA dog and he liked nothing better than another dog coming within reach, it was 20 years ago and I suspect I would be in more trouble for it nowadays.

Do you believe all dogs should be on a lead in public because of problems with your own dog? Would make a days hunting or shooting a bit tricky!
 
To be honest I would not care if I was deemed liable, I would not muzzle my dog as I will always have control (on the lead) its the other idiots fault for having ZILTCH control over their dog, I want my dog to be be able to defend its self if attacked, so I would not muzzle and have never muzzled any dog I have worked with even if dog aggressive (I will never let the dog go) which imo is what CONTROL is.

No one would be liable because the law is a farce, you can simply walk away and deny all knowledge for all anyones cares where other dogs are concerned.:rolleyes:
 
For me the decision to muzzle isn't about whether it is my dogs fault or not - it is about the image of ex-racing greyhounds and GRWE as a charity in the public eye, there is nothing the press like better than a sensationalist story about a greyhound killing another dog/cat/small furry and I will not give them any ammunition in that respect. Of course I would never let any of my dogs go, I had assumed people would realise that without me having to say it!
 
Picklenash said:
You would be liable in this situation - you knew your dog was not safe with other dogs, and didnt take sufficient measures to correct that? Hoover is not small-dog safe, so he is always muzzled when we are out, he trots at my heels for 99% of the walk anyway and is always put back on the lead if we see anyone (or if I can't see around the next corner!) and I am now adept at holding his collar so he cannot squash the irritating little terriers that try and commit suicide by running up to him :p

I had a rescue greyhound that I had to re-home due to my marital breakdown, she was as good as gold when she was with me but I later found she killed two cats after she had been re-homed because the owners were not switched on enough. Another case of people not being dog savvy :(
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Totally agree with Picklenash that you would be responsible - but I rather take exception to ".... squash the irritating little terriers that try and commit suicide ...." I have 2 "irritating little terriers" that stick by me and don't cause any trouble - however one terrier is very submissive and when a big bounding dog flies over and knocks her flying she cowers down, looks submissive and wags her tail frantically - and doesn't get hurt. However, the other "irritating little terrier" stands up for herself. And when a big bounding "he's only being friendly" lab/lurcher/collie/GSD/Greyhound etc comes shooting over and knocks her for six, she will retaliate.

Big dogs are just (if not more) irritating than little dogs.
 
EllenJay I was actually thinking of two particular irritating terriers that I encounter on a regular basis, their owner has no control over them whatsoever hence they make suicidal sorties up to Hoover to try and ingratiate themselves with him. One day I will simply let go of his collar....he is on a short lead and muzzled after all.....

So sorry, I wasn't referring to all terriers per se :)
 
Picklenash said:
For me the decision to muzzle isn't about whether it is my dogs fault or not - it is about the image of ex-racing greyhounds and GRWE as a charity in the public eye, there is nothing the press like better than a sensationalist story about a greyhound killing another dog/cat/small furry and I will not give them any ammunition in that respect. Of course I would never let any of my dogs go, I had assumed people would realise that without me having to say it!
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And that's a good reason for you :p...I still wont :p....and "how missus"I never said u would let them go I said "I would not hence no need for a muzzle" if the dog I have eats the other (out of control dog approaching) it will do so on the lead with out a muzzle:p:D

And I have some post for u, so give me an address :p
 
Picklenash said:
EllenJay I was actually thinking of two particular irritating terriers that I encounter on a regular basis, their owner has no control over them whatsoever hence they make suicidal sorties up to Hoover to try and ingratiate themselves with him. One day I will simply let go of his collar....he is on a short lead and muzzled after all.....

So sorry, I wasn't referring to all terriers per se :)
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OK - I forgive you, just I do get fed up with terriers being blamed for everything!! :-)
 
CAYLA said:
And that's a good reason for you :p...I still wont :p....and "how missus"I never said u would let them go I said "I would not hence no need for a muzzle" if the dog I have eats the other (out of control dog approaching) it will do so on the lead with out a muzzle:p:D

And I have some post for u, so give me an address :p
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Tetchy knickers or what :p I will send u some ibuprofen for your sore head :mad::p
 
In my view the other owner has let their dogs run upto an unknown dog on lead & can't say have their dog under control.

Even when my dog has been muzzled (neon pink so no excuse spotting it) people let their dog run over & are annoyed when my dog lunges at it, had one mutter that nasty dogs shouldn't be out in public places.

I personally would opt to muzzle an aggressive dog just so it can't cause injury & be blamed, it maybe that a dog reacts & bites yours first but your own dog causes worse injuries/kills it and is just your word vs other owner. My friend had run in with local lady whose off lead collie often nipped other dogs, after it bit her lad who was kept onlead the next time they passed & collie ran up to her dog he nailed it.
 
The dogs are looking at me like I'm mental now because I'm sitting here laughing :D :D :D

ETA - that was a reply to Cayla not 2Greys, totally agree with what 2Greys has said!
 
Picklenash said:
LOL I always feel the same when people start on about greyhounds :)
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My little submissive terriers is best friends with a massive Greyhound. Makes me laugh when they play chase, little terrier runs in really fast tiny circles and greyhound runs in large circles slowly. Occasionally the greyhound knocks her flying and she practises her SAS rolls, gets up and off they go again. :)
 
As if by magic, my dog got attacked again today, by a big black lab cross thing. My dog was on a lead, under control and trotting beside me on a bike minding his own business.
Owners were too busy texting to notice their dog about 20 metres in front of them, stiffening up, tail over back, staring us out and drooling, by the time I had called out to them he was up my dog's backside trying to grab him and I had to slam the brakes on and hold mine to stop him from giving some back while they bimbled over and muttered 'sorry'.

It seems to be getting worse every week :(
 
I would say other dog owners fault. I have one dog who doesn't like big males. I can call him back if I see another dog and he goes on the lead. I do have a muzzle for him, but don't always use it. People still let their dog run up to him thou and jump all over him. He isn't dog aggressive but as he is large and doesn't take kindly to other dogs trying to dominate him, it's just safer to put him on the lead. Plus he's a staffy x and even if it's not his fault, people will assume it is.

This week my 5 month old little Lakeland terrier got pinned and roughed up by a weinamarer dog for no reason at all :( luckily his jrt older brother stepped in and gave it a telling off!
 
Picklenash said:
You would be liable in this situation - you knew your dog was not safe with other dogs, and didnt take sufficient measures to correct that? Hoover is not small-dog safe, so he is always muzzled when we are out, he trots at my heels for 99% of the walk anyway and is always put back on the lead if we see anyone (or if I can't see around the next corner!) and I am now adept at holding his collar so he cannot squash the irritating little terriers that try and commit suicide by running up to him :p

I had a rescue greyhound that I had to re-home due to my marital breakdown, she was as good as gold when she was with me but I later found she killed two cats after she had been re-homed because the owners were not switched on enough. Another case of people not being dog savvy :(
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Ditto this. Unfortunately in court they would argue you did not exercise enough due care given you know what your dog is like.

As the law currently stands, a dog must be under control at all times by its owner. How many of us have seen dogs on leads but out of control, jumping up and down and dragging their owners all over the place? Don't think that just because a dog is on the lead it's safe. I've heard of a lady walking two big French mastiffs on a lead down a busy high street, which she clearly did not have under control, and consequently escaped and attacked a working guide dog.
 
New Zealand i'm pretty sure that the other owner would be liable - your dog was under control theirs was not, it is a requirement that dogs are kept under control at all times. If a dog wanders onto another property and is attacked it is that dog who is at fault. "But for" argument - had there dog been under control the incident would not have occurred.

Some dogs were there have been an incident before can be labelled as dangerous by council / spca and a muzzle is a requirement at all times in public.
 
Legally I believe the person with the dog on the lead would be culpable, although the other owner would be deemed to also be partially responsible. There was a court case over a year ago where it was ruled that just because a dog is on a lead does not mean that that dog is under control. There used to be something about this on Trevor Cooper's website - not sure if it's still there.
 
Dog on lead should be muzzled if known aggressive, dog rescue I worked for got a lot of backlash for allowing a known dog aggressive staffie to go for a walk muzzleless. Result was one very dead JRT and as a result a staff that was PTS.

But then the idiotic owner who has zilch control over other dog despite being given a warning is also in the firing line. Your dog shouldn't be off the lead if it doesn't have basic recall and these types of situations prove the importance.
 
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