I’m just not sure about Robin

[doodle]

I think his hocks are much improved. However I don’t feel we are at the bottom of his issues. He is frequently grumpy which is not like him. Trying to tack up today he was reacting to the saddle. I could stand and stroke his face but go to do up breastplate he would throw head. I almost didn’t ride as it seemed he didn’t want me touching him. Got on expecting him to be off but he seemed fine. If anything he was sharp and spooky. Wandered about and coming back up road he had full blown melt down at sheep running. He lives with sheep. Pulled him up and he stopped. Set off and he went to rush so I said no and he reared. Not a big rear but a definite rear. Stormed back up the road settling by the time we were back and happy to stretch down.

I’m wondering ulcers. He dropped weight and topline suddenly about 3 months ago. Vet came, bloods done and nothing. But if his hocks were hurting then ulcers could be secondary. Looking at him he is shiney and in good condition. He is just grumpy at times.

I just feel there is something else. Vet is coming tomorrow. He is brilliant at listening if you say something is wrong but I don’t want to be that owner who always thinks something is wrong.

 

[Not_so_brave_anymore]

Ulcers are obvs first line of investigation. But (I know this is my answer to everything) dropping weight and lack of topline- is it worth doing a cushings test if clear for ulcers ?

 

[doodle]

The weight and topline came back very quickly with the addition of linseed and up of feed. He now looks great again and I have had to reduce his feed back to normal levels. At the time we put it down to seasons change and coat change.

Cushings it could be. He is 13. He was tested for it 3 years ago due to slow healing after an op, but a lot can come on in 3 years.

 

[HobleytheTB]

Ulcers would make sense! Mine didn't particularly drop weight when she had ulcers, but she was unhappy to be groomed and was overreacting to everything even remotely spooky on a ride.

 

[Mahoganybay]

My mare dropped weight and top line this time last year, we had ongoing lameness issues that were finally resolved in February, so put it down to that. Slowly over Spring/Summer she regained it and I thought we had finally cracked it, she was looking and going fab.

On the 22.10.20 she bolted in the school and sent me skywards, knew instantly it was a pain response but she was sound so had her scoped and yes, shes got Grade 2/3 Squamous and Glandular Ulcer. She’s also started to drop weight & condition again.

So weight loss and over reaction ?

 

[Errin Paddywack]

Has he been tested for PSSM?

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Ulcers would make sense here. Can you have him scoped? Or just start treatment and see how it goes. I think the probability that he has them is pretty good, and I would start there.

Then I'd continue on down the list if it is not ulcers.

 

[doodle]

The weight and topline came back very quickly. Within a couple of weeks. Now he is looking great.

Not been tested for PSSM I wouldn’t know where to start tbh.

Yes I’m sure he could be scoped for ulcers but wouldn’t want him to go through that unnecessarily. That said I will do anything that needs done for him.

I sniffed today and he proper spooked.

The grumpiness isn’t every day but for a normally cheery and friendly horse it is there maybe 3 days a week.

I guess I just need to wait for vet tomorrow but I’m really scared.

 

[Polos Mum]

Not been tested for PSSM I wouldn’t know where to start tbh.

You can send away a small sample of his mane hair (pulled out out so it has the follicles on) for about £35-50. But if the vet is due out tomorrow best just wait and see what what they say.

 

[iknowmyvalue]

My boy was similar when he had ulcers. He didn’t drop any weight, or anything like that. But he just wasn’t “right”, was often touchy and girthy, tried to kick me a couple of times when grooming, would sometimes be a bit grumpy when I put my leg on. He’s usually a super laid back and friendly horse, so it wasn’t him at all. Not sure anyone else would have thought there was much going on. Had him scoped and lo and behold, grade 2-3 ulcers.

ETA. if you’re worried, you could always discuss going down the route of a treatment trial with your vet. They might be happy to just prescribe the treatment rather than scope first.

 

[doodle]

It would be an insurance claim. They have agreed to and already paid out for his hocks (shout out to seib paying in 2 weeks). Would insurance want a positive scope before paying for treatment?

Also if it is ulcers would that be a separate claim from the hocks? Or could be argued hocks have caused them.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Oh I forgot to add that I recently switched my horses vit/min and then noticed it was very low in magnesium. I added some to his diet and he's much happier and less dramatic (well, for him).

 

[CanteringCarrot]

It would be an insurance claim. They have agreed to and already paid out for his hocks (shout out to seib paying in 2 weeks). Would insurance want a positive scope before paying for treatment?

Also if it is ulcers would that be a separate claim from the hocks? Or could be argued hocks have caused them.

In my experience, yes to the first question. Possibly to the second question.

 

[BronsonNutter]

It would be an insurance claim. They have agreed to and already paid out for his hocks (shout out to seib paying in 2 weeks). Would insurance want a positive scope before paying for treatment?

Also if it is ulcers would that be a separate claim from the hocks? Or could be argued hocks have caused them.

In my experience, yes they’ll want a scope doing before paying for any treatment (as treatment is more expensive than a gastroscope, and the best treatment depends on which kind of ulcers you have). If the scope comes back clear then they normally won’t pay out for it - unless it’s for investigation of something like weight loss, recurrent colic etc.
And generally yes, two separate claims.
I’d definitely speak to your vet about having him scoped - have had some surprisingly bad ulcer cases recently in horses only showing ‘mild’ symptoms, especially if there is concurrent lameness etc.

 

[BBP]

The weight and topline came back very quickly. Within a couple of weeks. Now he is looking great.

Not been tested for PSSM I wouldn’t know where to start tbh.

Yes I’m sure he could be scoped for ulcers but wouldn’t want him to go through that unnecessarily. That said I will do anything that needs done for him.

I sniffed today and he proper spooked.

The grumpiness isn’t every day but for a normally cheery and friendly horse it is there maybe 3 days a week.

I guess I just need to wait for vet tomorrow but I’m really scared.

The jumping out of skin when you sniff is exactly what mine did. He was so crazy anxious and hypersensitive. I really really didn’t want to have him scoped, but I was glad I did as it gave me a definite answer. He had pyloric ulcers. Not huge or awful looking but clearly extremely painful for him. He wasn’t grumpy but was anxious and depressed. The wild hypersensitivity went away after treatment and he was much more cheerful.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Ulcers would make sense! Mine didn't particularly drop weight when she had ulcers, but she was unhappy to be groomed and was overreacting to everything even remotely spooky on a ride.

Agree with this, one of mine was still on the fat side of looking good when he had grade two ulcers as well as hind gut ulcers. He started getting sharpe and spooky and just not himself at all.

 

[doodle]

Feeling very miserable.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Feeling very miserable.

I can understand that, one of mine is broken and has until spring to fix himself or he is a man of leisure for the rest of his life.

You know him, you have the vet coming because you listened to him. I wish there were more owns like you around.

 

[Widgeon]

Feeling very miserable.

Robin is very lucky to have you, please don't feel like you're worrying unnecessarily, you know him better than anyone so trust your instincts. By way of encouragement, there is a horse on our yard who was very sharp and spooky to the point of being dangerous. She looked great - reasonable weight, lovely shiny coat - and because she was a new acquisition, it would have been easy to write that behavior off as "just what she's like". Anyway she was scoped and had horrible ulcers; after a course of the injections they are completely gone and her behavior has settled down - a very quick and quite drastic change following treatment. So if he does have ulcers, try not to worry too much, it doesn't have to be a disaster, particularly if you've got the hocks sorted now. Very best wishes for it all, have a virtual hug.

 

[doodle]

So vet has been. Very happy with hocks. He is back to springing from leg to leg even after flexions. So that is good. Feels we might get even more improvement and to keep riding.

However he agrees about the ulcers. Robin tensed when vet was touching him. He feels it wouldn’t be surprising and he is def showing symptoms. So he is going back to surgery to book him in to be scoped ?

 

[doodle]

He’s going in next Thursday. I feel sick with anxiety and have the shakes. Insurance has said to send in invoice as a continuing claim and they will access then and see if new claim or continuing.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Good to hear that all is going well with the hocks.

While the ulcers aren't "good" its not the worst thing and fairly easy to take care of with proper treatment and management. If insurance covers it, even better! Either way, many horses experience and come back from ulcers. The odds should be in your favor for this.

 

[FinnishLapphund]

Ditto CanteringCarrot. It's understandable that you're worried, but it sounds as if the odds are in your favour, so try to stay positive.

{{{{{{Vibes}}}}}} to Robin.

 

[doodle]

Good to hear that all is going well with the hocks.

While the ulcers aren't "good" its not the worst thing and fairly easy to take care of with proper treatment and management. If insurance covers it, even better! Either way, many horses experience and come back from ulcers. The odds should be in your favor for this.

I’m trying to be positive but I can’t help feel I am being punished for having a great time with him recently.

What sort of management changes? Soli had them but shortly after suffered his fatal accident so we didn’t get much further that treating and putting weight on.

Robin gets ad lib hay when he is in. He is restricted in it is small holed nets but he eats a huge amount of hay. He has 2 of the big shires nets so there is some left in the morning and I have also been putting a small amount loose. He is out from approx 9am to 2.30/3 on poor grazing. There is enough for a pick but that is about it. Not allowed hay in the field. Feed wise he has spillers conditioning fiber, small amount of linseed and formula4feet. He gets that once a day. Should I give him breakfast too? He won’t eat much as keen to get out. I normally give him breakfast if the field is frozen.

If he does have ulcers it will be due to the pain of his hocks I presume. In 5 years owning I have never suspected them. So hopefully hocks feeling better will help.

 

[doodle]

Also when he comes in in the afternoon I ride then. He has his hay while grooming and tacking up. Should I give him his feed then? Normally he gets it once back and cooled off. That said atm it is 3/4 scoop as he dosnt need more.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Ah, it sounds like your management is good. I just sort of made a general statement. The key is just to keep forage in front of them as much as possible and turnout usually. It sounds like you have this, and that you don't ride him on an empty stomach, so you're already doing a good job! Diet doesn't sound like a problem in this case and I think you are right, that it would be from his hock pain. So you already changed that management/managed that with injections. So really, your odds of him healing are quite high.

After the treatment you could always add Aloe juice or something like that to keep things at bay.

Best of luck next Thursday.

 

[doodle]

Ok good thanks.